Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

JRant · 10-04-2021 07:44PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/government-hoping-stop-cheap-flights-23884292

So the greens are using 'benefits' of the COVID crisis to implement new environmental policies, if Ryans comments are anything to go by it seems to be a continent wide desire to limit cheap international flights and COVID presents as an opportunity to insitigate this new plan.

It's grand if you're on the continent with access to trains, motorways, buses. How does that wally think Irish people are going to avail of European free movement exactly?

I suppose this is why they say you should never walk someone up when they are sleepwalking. You never know what they'll come out with.

walus · 10-04-2021 07:56PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

It's all starting to get a little more uncomfortable isn't it....

This time last year did you think we'd be discussing

Limiting access to other countries indefinitely
Limiting access to visitors indefinitely
Vaccine passports
Quarantining healthy people

What's the fatality rate of this virus again?

Last year these would qualify for the ‘conspiracy theory’ basket. Today they are reality.

Edit: Next time someone calls an idea, an opinion or a vision of the future a ‘conspiracy theory’ send them back to this Silentcorner post. In this bizarre world what seems a conspiracy theory today has a tendency to quickly become a ‘new’ reality. Soon enough we will have the Thought Police and the likes...

Boggles · 10-04-2021 08:00PM

JRant wrote: »

It's grand if you're on the continent with access to trains, motorways, buses. How does that wally think Irish people are going to avail of European free movement exactly?

Fly.

The wolf whisperer is not talking about banning air travel, he wants to reduce it.

It's not his idea. It's been around a while.

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 08:03PM

Boggles wrote: »

All the borrowing it to essentially stimulate growth.

10.1 billion is allocated for capital expenditure, if it makes you feel better you can pretend we borrowed that portion.

Borrow now to save the economy later.

It would have been dangerously stupid not to given the situation and the interest rates.

Unless you know of another option we didn't take?

By all means tap it out.

All the borrowing is essentially to stimulate growth?? Have a think about that - not to plug holes in emergency spending deficits - but all borrowing is essentially to stimulate growth?

Absolutely all countries in need should take advantage of current interest rates on borrowing in crisis such as we found ourselves in. However you seem to think the borrowing is bottomless and without consequence?

Boggles · 10-04-2021 08:07PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

All the borrowing is essentially to stimulate growth?? Have a think about that - not to plug holes in emergency spending deficits - but all borrowing is essentially to stimulate growth?

Yes, you pay now you get the rewards later.

Obviously in terms of a mitigation measure the rewards are instantaneous.

Pandemic 101, pump the economy with money.

Restrictions do not work effectively without it.

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 08:10PM

Boggles wrote: »

Fly.

The wolf whisperer is not talking about banning air travel, he wants to reduce it.

It's not his idea. It's been around a while.

Reduce it how - making air travel elitist again for the wealthier citizens only go enjoy, or making it dependent on how essential your journey is? Either way it’s restricting freedom of movement in the future, which is a bad thing when there are other, bigger targets for reducing carbon output that are higher-hanging fruit, and would require more ballsy politicking to bring about.

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 08:15PM

Boggles wrote: »

Yes, you pay now you get the rewards later.

Obviously in terms of a mitigation measure the rewards are instantaneous.

Pandemic 101, pump the economy with money.

Restrictions do not work effectively without it.

Sure, pandemic 101 pump the economy with money. So why did we not pump twice the amount into the economy? Or multiple amounts - where’s the accounting for it and why do you have faith in who decides where the limit of borrowing stands?

Boggles · 10-04-2021 08:21PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Reduce it how - making air travel elitist again for the wealthier citizens only go enjoy, or making it dependent on how essential your journey is? Either way it’s restricting freedom of movement in the future, which is a bad thing when there are other, bigger targets for reducing carbon output that are higher-hanging fruit, and would require more ballsy politicking to bring about.

Hyperbole much?

Listen wrong thread for it, but it's not just the crazy Greens making noises about the climate anymore, it has well and truly entered the main stream.

Ironically if air travel hadn't doubled in 15 years, we may not as much in absolute shít now with the pandemic.

10-04-2021 08:22PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Reduce it how - making air travel elitist again for the wealthier citizens only go enjoy, or making it dependent on how essential your journey is? Either way it’s restricting freedom of movement in the future, which is a bad thing when there are other, bigger targets for reducing carbon output that are higher-hanging fruit, and would require more ballsy politicking to bring about.

I can’t wait to see O’Learys reaction to this. He won’t let us down. Ryan can stay here if he wants, I won’t be.

VonLuck · 10-04-2021 08:26PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

It's all starting to get a little more uncomfortable isn't it....

This time last year did you think we'd be discussing

Limiting access to other countries indefinitely
Limiting access to visitors indefinitely
Vaccine passports
Quarantining healthy people

What's the fatality rate of this virus again?

Who would have thought that over a year into this we would still be trying to explain the basics of limiting the spread of a virus to some people.

Boggles · 10-04-2021 08:27PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Sure, pandemic 101 pump the economy with money. So why did we not pump twice the amount into the economy? Or multiple amounts -

Why not indeed?

DisneyLand Leitrim and our own Space program.

Let's do it.

Stormyteacup wrote: »

where’s the accounting for it and why do you have faith in who decides where the limit of borrowing stands?

I have faith in Paschal, typical tight economist, always acts like he is spending his own money.

bb1234567 · 10-04-2021 08:28PM

Well amidst the vaccine passport debates worldwide I don't think a more blatant example of why it is a bad idea has arised very quickly. Unbelievably hotels-come-refugee centres amid the volcanic eruptions on the island on St Vincent have refused to take in refugees if they are not vaccinated against COVID. Cruise ships evacuating 20,000 at risk have also been ordered by the St.Vincent government not to evacuate citizens who have not been vaccinated.

Prime Minister Gonsalves said only vaccinated residents who have been checked and identified by Dr. Simone Keizer-Beache, the St. Vincent and the Grenadines chief medical officer, will be allowed to board the ships out of an abundance of caution.

So potentially put these people at hugely unnecessary risk in an identified danger zone around the volcano, in the interest of public health, who knew COVID was a worse fate than toxic volcanic gas plumes. Shameful response, there is times when COVID should not even be on people's minds, a volanic disaster is one of those times.

https://abcnews.go.com/ABCNews/volcanic-eruption-caribbean-forces-thousands-evacuations/story?id=76984728
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-09/saint-vincent-orders-evacuation-amid-volcano-eruption-threat

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 08:29PM

Boggles wrote: »

Hyperbole much?

Listen wrong thread for it, but it's not just the crazy Greens making noises about the climate anymore, it has well and truly entered the main stream.

Ironically if air travel hadn't doubled in 15 years, we may not as much in absolute shít now with the pandemic.

Ok - not sure how you’ve inferred hyperbole, but interested to know how you think air travel can be restricted. As far as I can see it’s imposing some barrier on it, be that financial or reason for travel.

Some will be okay with the world being less accessible than pre-Covid, but I would not welcome it and would rather climate protectors first go after transgressors that have a bigger impact.

May be wrong thread but it’s part of the restrictions debate nonetheless.

Boggles · 10-04-2021 08:33PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Ok - not sure how you’ve inferred hyperbole,

Cutting air travel by a relatively small percentage will not send us back to the 1970s and make it a venture of the elite.

That's hyperbolic.

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 08:34PM

Boggles wrote: »

I have faith in Paschal, typical tight economist, always acts like he is spending his own money.

Other nonsense aside - how much power over economic decisions do you think Paschal has had this past twelve months?

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 08:35PM

Boggles wrote: »

Cutting air travel by a relatively small percentage will not send us back to the 1970s and make it a venture of the elite.

That's hyperbolic.

So your relatively small percentage cuts to air travel come from where? Who is travelling less?

Boggles · 10-04-2021 08:40PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Other nonsense aside - how much power over economic decisions do you think Paschal has had this past twelve months?

Who is making the economic decisions other than the department of Finance?

Fisheries?

Stormyteacup wrote: »

So you’re relatively small percentage cuts to air travel come from where? Who is travelling less?

I imagine a percentage of business travel will be curtailed for one.

But these things will happen organically, like I said there is a big movement towards green policies, it's no longer the great unwashed fringe parties pushing the ideas.

ypres5 · 10-04-2021 08:49PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

So your relatively small percentage cuts to air travel come from where? Who is travelling less?

The plebs of course, whom which boggles does not belong to

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 08:54PM

Boggles wrote: »

Who is making the economic decisions other than the department of Finance?

Fisheries?

I imagine a percentage of business travel will be curtailed for one.

But these things will happen organically, like I said there is a big movement towards green policies, it's no longer the great unwashed fringe parties pushing the ideas.

Happening organically is fine, as is a movement towards green policies. It’s probably a good thing if business travel can be reduced - for most caught up in it, employees and employer alike. Using a pandemic to further your cause is not fine.

The comment re ‘fisheries’ was unnecessary. But you’ve drawn attention to your own compartmentalising and understanding of policy making, as something that is decided on a department level and then implemented, rather than the other way around.

walus · 10-04-2021 08:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Borrow 1billion today over 10years. Pay the interest and after 10 years inflation and economic growth means the economy can now afford to borrow 1.5 billion, 1 billion to pay off the initial debt and 500million more to enable more growth. Rinse and repeat. It’s been running that way for centuries. The problems occur not because of the amount of debt, but when issues such as the gfc impact countries ability to refinance debt by cutting of the money supply. The ecb now understands, unlike in 2008, that their role is primarily to ensure the money supply is available and to monitor the eu economies ability to absorb any increased money supply

Fascinating theory. Nothing more than that.

darced · 10-04-2021 09:02PM

Great to see so many out and about today, heading to a house party now for food and drinks. Pandemic is over.

Boggles · 10-04-2021 09:04PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Happening organically is fine, as is a movement towards green policies. It’s probably a good thing if business travel can be reduced - for most caught up in it, employees and employer alike. Using a pandemic to further your cause is not fine.

On the contrary if we don't use the pandemic to further numerous causes and fix fundamentals we have learned nothing.

Stormyteacup wrote: »

The comment re ‘fisheries’ was unnecessary. But you’ve drawn attention to your own compartmentalising and understanding of policy making, as something that is decided on a department level and then implemented, rather than the other way around.

You mean senior cabinet level?

Yep Pascal is a member there too.

niallo27 · 10-04-2021 09:18PM

Having a discussion with Boggles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcHWeAzoXd4

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 09:22PM

Boggles wrote: »

On the contrary if we don't use the pandemic to further numerous causes and fix fundamentals we have learned nothing.

You mean senior cabinet level?

Yep Pascal is a member there too.

Lessons learned from this crisis will stand to us in the future, taking advantage of it to further a mandate otherwise unpopular is carpetbagging. Senior cabinet members have bowed down to NPHET advice.

You mention ‘senior cabinet’ level as though they have taken charge of their portfolios independently of health expert advice. They have not.

FintanMcluskey · 10-04-2021 09:27PM

walus wrote: »

Fascinating theory. Nothing more than that.

The problem is that loan is only to keep the lights on.

From a business point of view it’s surely considered reckless trading

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 09:28PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Having a discussion with Boggles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcHWeAzoXd4

Ah thanks - most welcome laugh out loud moment that snapped me out of the futility of arguing with an immovable object.

bluelamp · 10-04-2021 09:31PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Other nonsense aside - how much power over economic decisions do you think Paschal has had this past twelve months?

He's dissapeared - unusual for a minister who was regularly in the public eye.

I'm sure he has been told to keep quiet about the economic devastation.

They might let him speak again if he agrees to only talk about variants and Brazilians.

ypres5 · 10-04-2021 09:46PM

bluelamp wrote: »

He's dissapeared - unusual for a minister who was regularly in the public eye.

I'm sure he has been told to keep quiet about the economic devastation.

They might let him speak again if he agrees to only talk about variants and Brazilians.

I suppose when you have varadker and harris shouting from the rooftops about everyone else's brief but their own pascal's become a bit redundant

CruelSummer · 10-04-2021 10:09PM

So one year on from Ireland’s first lockdown:

- We’ve been in a state of lockdown since apart from a brief reopening over the summer & Christmas and still have had thousands of cases, deaths and hospitalisations - and nothing else to show for it
- NPHET are still used as a defacto Government because the people in charge don’t want the responsibility to make meaningful decisions. A group of doctors with only Covid as their remit have been given the authority to dictate policy across all Departments. To the point some of them would tweet against Government policy during the last 12 months in an attempt to drum up public support. Our leadership & running of a tight ship has been non-existant.
- We’ve decided now that we’ve effective vaccines coming and the end is nigh to introduce mandatory hotel quarantine - and include travellers from the EU & US...I can hardly believe this as I type. Martin even suggesting today they’d set up a hotel in Wexford to ‘catch’ travellers coming from France?! So effectively an attempt is now being made to imprison the citizens of Ireland here & prevent families from going abroad for holidays, no matter what the Covid levels in said country or vaccination situation.
Not to mention they’re throwing fully vaccinated people into the quarantine for no apparent reason.
The absolute decimation of our tourist industry, FDI & future investment and other issues this will cause our workforce is scary to think about.
- We’ve people like Gerry Killeen out tweeting support for Martin’s Wexford hotel idea & also encouraging policing of the border with the North...where they’re all vaccinated? The same man who wanted to keep schools closed, get masks on 5 year olds & Ireland in a permanent lockdown.
- They decided to keep the 5k limit for the Easter holidays for fear children and families might enjoy themselves in the open countryside. Need to keep those local parks full & people in a depressed state after all for anyone who’s actually still following the 5k that is.
- No plan is developed for post Covid healthcare crisis. Why on earth am I seeing posts about people diagnosed with cancer who are getting no treatment or care? They should get onto national tv right now and state their case. Also call a solicitor & demand answers as to why they’re not being seen.

FintanMcluskey · 10-04-2021 10:18PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

So one year on from Ireland’s first lockdown:

- We’ve been in a state of lockdown since apart from a brief reopening over the summer & Christmas and still have had thousands of cases, deaths and hospitalisations - and nothing else to show for it
- NPHET are still used as a defacto Government because the people in charge don’t want the responsibility to make meaningful decisions. A group of doctors with only Covid as their remit have been given the authority to dictate policy across all Departments. To the point some of them would tweet against Government policy during the last 12 months in an attempt to drum up public support. Our leadership & running of a tight ship has been non-existant.
- We’ve decided now that we’ve effective vaccines coming and the end is nigh to introduced mandatory hotel quarantine - and include travellers from the EU & US...I can hardly believe this as I type. Martin even suggesting today they’d set up a hotel in Wexford to ‘catch’ travellers coming from France?! So effectively an attempt is now being made to imprison the citizens of Ireland here & prevent families from going abroad for a holidays, no matter what the Covid levels in said country or vaccination situation.
Not to mention they’re throwing fully vaccinated people into the quarantine for no apparent reason.
The absolute decimation of our tourist industry, FDI & future investment and other issues this will cause our workforce is scary to think about.
- We’ve people like Gerry Killeen out tweeting support for Martin’s Wexford hotel idea & also encouraging policing of the border with the North...where they’re all vaccinated? The same man who wanted to keep schools closed, get masks on 5 year olds & Ireland in a permanent lockdown.
- They decided to keep the 5k limit for the Easter holidays for fear children and families might enjoy themselves in the open countryside. Need to keep those local parks full & people in a depressed state after all for anyone who’s actually still following the 5k that is.
- No plan is developed for post Covid healthcare crisis. Why on earth am I seeing posts about people diagnosed with cancer who are getting no treatment or care? They should get onto national tv right now and state their case. Also call a solicitor & demand answers as to why they’re not being seen.

There was a fella on Tommy Tiernan talking about HIV

Someone commented on the thread that in the 1980s it was believed a handshake could spread AIDS

It’s the same **** with Covid only this time we’ve economically obliterated the nation

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings