Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

_Kaiser_ · 10-04-2021 05:19PM

darem93 wrote: »

Yeah it's actually mental just how cowardly and spineless MM is, especially in a time when we need real leadership.

He's practically gone into hiding and only appears every 6 weeks to address the nation with waffle that has already been leaked in the days previous. He is supposed to be the one leading the country, and yet he is hiding behind NPHET and letting them do the dirty work and make all the decisions. It's a clear tactic to evade responsibility and deflect the mounting frustration caused by this mess on to someone else.

Compare his complete lack of leadership with the likes of Nicole Sturgeon who put herself in the firing line every day and stood up in front of the public and media to explain the decisions her and her government were taking.

Micheal's only goal was to not be the only FF leader who wasn't Taoiseach. He had no plan beyond that it seems, plus the outcome of the election left him and FF in a far weaker position than they expected.

Then Covid came along which further removed any notion of a difference between him/FF and the others, primarily FG.

On top of that he's been facing into a leadership heave for a while now and the wolves appear to be circling.

This article in today's IT covers it all pretty well..

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/leadership-at-issue-as-fianna-f%C3%A1il-eyes-prospects-after-pandemic-1.4533199

Boggles · 10-04-2021 05:20PM

darem93 wrote: »

He's practically gone into hiding and only appears every 6 weeks to address the nation with waffle

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1380892207239077888

eggy81 · 10-04-2021 05:22PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

What a f**kin hero. I hope you have a good w**k to celebrate before you go to sleep

Not a hero. Just normal.

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 05:31PM

Graham wrote: »

I'd expect that any measure might need to change based on current circumstances. To be honest it would be a bit daft not to.

If something happened in the UK to cause cases/hospitalisations to rocket do you think they'd stick to the original plan?

Likely they would not, and they would adjust their plan based on provisos included, and because the public have been briefed and the reasons for a halt on easing of restrictions communicated to them, it’s likely buy-in would be good enough for management of unanticipated, and unlikely, spread of virus in the short term.

Here however, no plan whatsoever (proviso targets included of course) leaves the public susceptible to increasing frustration and even consideration concluding nefarious reasoning behind slow easing.

Here we continue to encourage unquestioning obedience of any regulation with minimum explanation, maybe because we might lose the run of ourselves if given a glimmer of being able to make plans for the future. It’s insulting to the Irish people to be treated so.

Graham · 10-04-2021 05:42PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Here however, no plan whatsoever

Yeah, that's what Nialo said this morning until I linked to the provisional dates.

Apparently that's not good enough unless it comes with cast iron guaranteed dates resulting in my last post

arccosh · 10-04-2021 05:53PM

The UK plan is a phased opening which can be stopped at any phase should the situation deteriorate...

It has been laid out though that it shouldn't go backwards (fingers crossed) ...

So it's a fall forward approach, where if a situation deteriorates, things stay as they are until the situation stabilises, then review for further lifting of restrictions...

That is mostly pivoting on the vaccine rollout.... they know cases will go up as restrictions are lifted, but the UK (mainland at least) is at a point where the majority of the vulnerable have had their full vaccine dose....

So there is allowances for case numbers to rise and some hospitalisation increases, but those cases are predicted to be small and not overwhelming....

Unfortunately, Ireland's health system hasn't the flexibility (as it's in ****) for this approach and will need a higher number vaccinated before getting to a similar point...

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the sports test events with fans.... it'll be a good indication to what'll be brought in Europe wide...

All I know is, I'm looking forward to a beer in the beer garden next week, hopefully the weather's nice!

arctictree · 10-04-2021 05:54PM

So from Monday we can meet outside but not in our gardens! I wonder what the legal definition of a garden is?! What about your driveway?

VonLuck · 10-04-2021 05:59PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'd say that's only because of the threat of fines or being turned around rather than any real concern about "de virus".

I saw someone post earlier that Donnelly extended the 5k limit another month. If so, then like the above that's nothing to do with Covid either. It's because they screwed up the ban on evictions by tying it to the 5k rule.

Bit of a silly thing to post. Generally rules are put in place to prevent people from doing things that they might do otherwise.

And since when has the 5km limit been extended? I guess they forgot to tell the general public.

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 06:01PM

Graham wrote: »

Yeah, that's what Nialo said this morning until I linked to the provisional dates.

Apparently that's not good enough unless it comes with cast iron guaranteed dates resulting in my last post

No it’s not good enough. Not looking for cast iron guarantees, as previously stated, plans out of this are expected to come with provisos. But what is the plan past eight weeks from now? It’s, ‘we will see.’

10-04-2021 06:03PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Sssh most people in Ireland think we’ve a magic money tree & are only too happy to take the Government’s ‘free money’. Who cares about the principal of a loan? Let’s just concentrate on the low interest rates and pretend we don’t owe billions and are not getting anything from the EU bailout fund.
Not to mention Biden now wants to tax all US multinationals, including those in Ireland heavily further decimating our economy. Having an exit strategy is a good idea - I know I do.

The principal ultimately never gets repaid.

Chris_5339762 · 10-04-2021 06:04PM

arctictree wrote: »

So from Monday we can meet outside but not in our gardens! I wonder what the legal definition of a garden is?! What about your driveway?

That one I sort of understand I must admit. If ye meet in a park it rains, and everyone shelters under a tree or goes home.

If ye meet up in a garden and it rains, ye both go inside, and thats where the spread happens.

robbiezero · 10-04-2021 06:05PM

arctictree wrote: »

So from Monday we can meet outside but not in our gardens! I wonder what the legal definition of a garden is?! What about your driveway?

Just ignore it. Im having a few pints in someones garden at the moment. Delicious. Lovely evening for it.

lawred2 · 10-04-2021 06:06PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

It's the government's job to fire non performing persons in the HSE. If they aren't doing their job correctly, they're fired. That's the job of a manager and the government's job is to manage the HSE.

I don't know how you can't see that. I'm not saying the HSE is well run or that everyone in nphet is giving perfect advice, I'm stating the obvious. It is the government's responsibility to manage the country.

The buck stops with the incompetent shower that's running the country and has outsourced running it to nphet because of their extreme incompetence. If I told our kids that from now on they can cook their own dinners, buy their own food, wash themselves, etc. and I would do what the kids tell me to do people would think it was crazy. Because it is. The government is crazy, they are not taking responsibility, MM is appalling as Taoiseach. MM may be a nice man but he is meant to lead the country not hide behind nphet.

The government's job is to fire non performing persons in the HSE?

Do you mean the board of the HSE?

noserider · 10-04-2021 06:13PM

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

That one I sort of understand I must admit. If ye meet in a park it rains, and everyone shelters under a tree or goes home.

If ye meet up in a garden and it rains, ye both go inside, and thats where the spread happens.

The spread...a good ole spread I hope, a few cocktail sausages, wedges and goijons.

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 06:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The principal ultimately never gets repaid.

Yes but that ignores that the amount borrowed has a bearing on future borrowing possibilities. Yes the capital may not be expected to be repaid, but you cannot increase that capital amount indefinitely without consequences.

10-04-2021 06:21PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Yes but that ignores that the amount borrowed has a bearing on future borrowing possibilities. Yes the capital not be expected to be repaid, but you cannot increase that capital amount indefinitely without consequences.

Borrow 1billion today over 10years. Pay the interest and after 10 years inflation and economic growth means the economy can now afford to borrow 1.5 billion, 1 billion to pay off the initial debt and 500million more to enable more growth. Rinse and repeat. It’s been running that way for centuries. The problems occur not because of the amount of debt, but when issues such as the gfc impact countries ability to refinance debt by cutting of the money supply. The ecb now understands, unlike in 2008, that their role is primarily to ensure the money supply is available and to monitor the eu economies ability to absorb any increased money supply

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 06:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Borrow 1billion today over 10years. Pay the interest and after 10 years inflation and economic growth means the economy can now afford to borrow 1.5 billion, 1 billion to pay off the initial debt and 500million more to enable more growth. Rinse and repeat. It’s been running that way for centuries. The problems occur not because of the amount of debt, but when issues such as the gfc impact countries ability to refinance debt by cutting of the money supply. The ecb now understands, unlike in 2008, that their role is primarily to ensure the money supply is available and to monitor the eu economies ability to absorb any increased money supply

Borrowing to stimulate growth is a completely different scenario to borrowing and forecast borrowing for life support of an economy.

Stormyteacup · 10-04-2021 06:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Borrow 1billion today over 10years. Pay the interest and after 10 years inflation and economic growth means the economy can now afford to borrow 1.5 billion, 1 billion to pay off the initial debt and 500million more to enable more growth. Rinse and repeat. It’s been running that way for centuries. The problems occur not because of the amount of debt, but when issues such as the gfc impact countries ability to refinance debt by cutting of the money supply. The ecb now understands, unlike in 2008, that their role is primarily to ensure the money supply is available and to monitor the eu economies ability to absorb any increased money supply

Also, quite simplistic to ignore any situation such as where we needed to borrow 65 billion to satisfy unsecured bond holders.

Boggles · 10-04-2021 07:02PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Borrowing to stimulate growth is a completely different scenario to borrowing and forecast borrowing for life support of an economy.

All the borrowing it to essentially stimulate growth.

10.1 billion is allocated for capital expenditure, if it makes you feel better you can pretend we borrowed that portion.

Borrow now to save the economy later.

It would have been dangerously stupid not to given the situation and the interest rates.

Unless you know of another option we didn't take?

By all means tap it out.

suicide_circus · 10-04-2021 07:03PM

robbiezero wrote: »

Just ignore it. Im having a few pints in someones garden at the moment. Delicious. Lovely evening for it.

Utterly reckless. Apologise immediately.

mcsean2163 · 10-04-2021 07:04PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Borrow 1billion today over 10years. Pay the interest and after 10 years inflation and economic growth means the economy can now afford to borrow 1.5 billion, 1 billion to pay off the initial debt and 500million more to enable more growth. Rinse and repeat. It’s been running that way for centuries. The problems occur not because of the amount of debt, but when issues such as the gfc impact countries ability to refinance debt by cutting of the money supply. The ecb now understands, unlike in 2008, that their role is primarily to ensure the money supply is available and to monitor the eu economies ability to absorb any increased money supply

Good grief, it's hard to know where to start with the nonsense.

We're the third most indebted nation in the world and completely reliant on our status as a top 5 money conduit for multinationals (AKA robbing other countries). Biden is bringing in a 21% corporation tax that could make us a LOT less attractive to FDI. We've spent the most in the EU on covid19 despite having the smallest population over 65.

Do you really think that the EU will just keep lending a basket case like us money?

JRant · 10-04-2021 07:09PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

A person being wilfully stupid may be motivated by intentions that are not at all stupid. For example, a drug dealer being questioned may intentionally give stupid answers and that may be the best course of action if they wish to avoid prosecution.

Again, the government run the HSE. It is their responsibility to run it effectively. There is huge waste in the HSE. The consultant if on the nphet does not control staffing. It's possible some on nphet are responsible for staffing/ general overspend but if that is the case it is the government's responsibility to take them to task.

The fact that the government are cowardly to make decisions is not nphets fault, it is the government's. If I'm leading a team and I just do what a junior member wants without due consideration then I'm not really leading.

They've been at it over a year now. Either nphet is right or the government is incompetent. I lean toward the later on many aspects.

Anyway, hope I haven't caused personal offense but I do not agree with the nphet bad stance. Yes, I think nphet live in a very different reality where colleagues and friends have been very disproportionately affected by covid19, where work is hectic and people are burnt out but have not lost their livelihoods or their business has been impacted.

It is up to government to say things like, construction reopening on X. Outdoor dining if X,y,z. Blaming nphet for the cowardice of the government is unfair and in fairness Ronan Glynn looks wrecked, like the last thing he ever wants is another lockdown.

To be honest, I took zero offense but calling someone willfully stupid is not a good way to promote a good conversation.

To your main points, I agree that the government are completely incompent. That's a given really.

To NPHET, they have been equally guilty throughout all this but especially in the last 4 months. They sit at the top table and issue dictates to the general population like everyone should hang on their every word. "Don't do this, don't do that", "hold firm" blah blah blah. If my family and I had listened to these Yahoo's we would barely have seen my father in the last year of his life before he passed 2 months ago. I'm glad we didn't, and equally sad that so many people have died alone in this country over the past year is an absolute scandal and it comes directly from ultra conservative advice from a bunch of suits with seemingly no interest in how they are effecting real human beings and not some data point in a model.

Shame on them and shame on the government for showing nothing but complete cowardice since the new year particularly.

FintanMcluskey · 10-04-2021 07:15PM

robbiezero wrote: »

Just ignore it. Im having a few pints in someones garden at the moment. Delicious. Lovely evening for it.

Hopefully you know the owner of the garden, would look a bit odd otherwise

Zebra3 · 10-04-2021 07:16PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Good grief, it's hard to know where to start with the nonsense.

We're the third most indebted nation in the world and completely reliant on our status as a top 5 money conduit for multinationals (AKA robbing other countries). Biden is bringing in a 21% corporation tax that could make us a LOT less attractive to FDI. We've spent the most in the EU on covid19 despite having the smallest population over 65.

Do you really think that the EU will just keep lending a basket case like us money?

Yes, so long as we sell off the likes of Irish Water.

shtpEdthePlum · 10-04-2021 07:20PM

Boggles wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1380892207239077888

God the makeup really suits him.

bb1234567 · 10-04-2021 07:24PM

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/government-hoping-stop-cheap-flights-23884292

So the greens are using 'benefits' of the COVID crisis to implement new environmental policies, if Ryans comments are anything to go by it seems to be a continent wide desire to limit cheap international flights and COVID presents as an opportunity to insitigate this new plan.

He said “we will have to develop solutions for people flying. I’m working with the European Council at this present time.
We had a transport meeting last week and one of the items on the agenda was the consideration into the future whether we should regulate, really low-cost, that sort of flights for €10 aren’t the norm.That would come from a European level rather than a national level because it requires international cooperation.”

Mr Ryan said that despite the “hardship and difficulties” that of the Covid-19 crisis, he said it brought benefits such as remote working which has reduced people travelling.

ninebeanrows · 10-04-2021 07:35PM

robbiezero wrote: »

Just ignore it. Im having a few pints in someones garden at the moment. Delicious. Lovely evening for it.

Betty in 68 has called the guards. Reckless behavior indeed.

ypres5 · 10-04-2021 07:35PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/government-hoping-stop-cheap-flights-23884292

So the greens are using 'benefits' of the COVID crisis to implement new environmental policies, if Ryans comments are anything to go by it seems to be a continent wide desire to limit cheap international flights and COVID presents as an opportunity to insitigate this new plan.

They really seem to be hellbent on making ireland the most miserable isolated depressing country in europe. Ryan should do everyone a favour and go back to sleep on the dail bench

Silentcorner · 10-04-2021 07:37PM

It's all starting to get a little more uncomfortable isn't it....

This time last year did you think we'd be discussing

Limiting access to other countries indefinitely
Limiting access to visitors indefinitely
Vaccine passports
Quarantining healthy people

What's the fatality rate of this virus again?

10-04-2021 07:39PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Good grief, it's hard to know where to start with the nonsense.

We're the third most indebted nation in the world and completely reliant on our status as a top 5 money conduit for multinationals (AKA robbing other countries). Biden is bringing in a 21% corporation tax that could make us a LOT less attractive to FDI. We've spent the most in the EU on covid19 despite having the smallest population over 65.

Do you really think that the EU will just keep lending a basket case like us money?

Lol

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings