Is it me??

Green farmer · 07-04-2021 2:10pm

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I know there probably isn't a simple answer to this, but I'm going to ask anyways

What cures negative interest rates? Is it inflation? Deflation? Recession? What?

Whenever this covid thing finishes, theres going to be some hangover. The exchequer will have run up some debt. Other then construction I dont know anyones who's got a pay rise in the last year and some amount of people out of work. Scary times indeed.

07-04-2021 2:10pm

duffysfarm wrote: »

try getting a loan from BOI. Would be quicker going in and robbing the place

Just tell them you want to go up to 400 dairy cows

yosemitesam1 · 07-04-2021 2:18pm

amacca wrote: »

Uneducated opinion but I think what cures this situation is a collapse and people having to deal with reality.

Devaluing currencies has been carried out since they were created. Always ends badly with the poor and middle classes hardest hit. It can only end when either confidence is lost in the ability of the currency to hold value and runaway inflation forces the hard decisions to be made.

Ultimately what unnaturally low interest rates have done is remove the competition for money in the economy that forces a balance between wealth generation and things that dont actually really generate wealth. It will take an extended amount of time for that to correct itself but the alternative is a highly manipulated digital currency that will distort things even further from a natural balance

07-04-2021 2:19pm

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I know there probably isn't a simple answer to this, but I'm going to ask anyways

What cures negative interest rates? Is it inflation? Deflation? Recession? What?

Speculation, and that is what we are seeing now.

Sure houses, used cars, used machinery, land and shares selling over the odds.

It will lead to a correction, but they can't drop interest rates so nations can't borrow there way out.

The lending rules in Ireland you would imagine will mean it won't be as bad as 2009/10

amacca · 07-04-2021 2:33pm

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Devaluing currencies has been carried out since they were created. Always ends badly with the poor and middle classes hardest hit. It can only end when either confidence is lost in the ability of the currency to hold value and runaway inflation forces the hard decisions to be made.

Ultimately what unnaturally low interest rates have done is remove the competition for money in the economy that forces a balance between wealth generation and things that dont actually really generate wealth. It will take an extended amount of time for that to correct itself but the alternative is a highly manipulated digital currency that will distort things even further from a natural balance

Weimar style eh

We're told it's different this time though because everyone is at it

I think there might be some truth in that given the US pumping dollars out backed by nothing (but it is a reserve currency)

The EU effectively doing the same by buying up govt bond (debt) not to mention 0% interest rates

The Chinese have skin in the game owning countries debt and needing the US/west to buy their products/exports too

They are all more interlinked and more dependant on each other to some degree now than they were so maybe we are ultimately looking at money being worth a lot less globally on a much shorter timescale than normal but wages not catching up with asset prices so countries competitive on wage rates and debt problem reduced by inflation?

That would explain the mad fever on people to buy things.....i hope they ain't buying them with credit for their sakes however ...

patsy_mccabe · 07-04-2021 3:18pm

The Chinese US relation is key to a lot of the madness. China producing all the goods and the average US with virtually no savings, living it up on borrowed money.

Furze99 · 07-04-2021 4:20pm

Not hard to explain I think. Have relative who does the books in rural town and he says many small businesses in the town will be well down on turnover for 2020. But he also does books for farmers in the area and says they are all well up in terms of turnover for 2020. One of the sectors that has been protected from worst of Covid and has benefited from good prices etc., government doing everything to keep meat processing etc going. So basically many farmers have had a very good 2020 and have cash to spend.

amacca · 07-04-2021 4:44pm

Furze99 wrote: »

Not hard to explain I think. Have relative who does the books in rural town and he says many small businesses in the town will be well down on turnover for 2020. But he also does books for farmers in the area and says they are all well up in terms of turnover for 2020. One of the sectors that has been protected from worst of Covid and has benefited from good prices etc., government doing everything to keep meat processing etc going. So basically many farmers have had a very good 2020 and have cash to spend.

Well I don't know about many farmers but I know about this one in the beef sector and prices wouldn't make you up (are not viable) imo

Base price · 07-04-2021 6:00pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Our local Credit Union had limited deposits to something like €20,000.
They now have a sign up at the hatch saying you cannot lodge more than €500 a week.
When I asked why, the lady told me that they have so much money on deposit in the AIB, at a negative interest rate, it costs them a lot of money every month.
As a result of this they don't want any more money on their books...

On top of the fact that many rural small towns have lost bank branches with Ulster Bank and now Bank of Ireland pulling the plug.

timple23 · 08-04-2021 8:51am

A lot of it is down to Brexit and Covid, rang a parts importer/supplier for a part, there was one ordered into a dealer in January that still hadn't arrived. I ordered the last one that a big parts supplier had. That part cost 60, if it meant that the machine wouldn't work, I'd have no problem paying 120 euro for it if it meant i was back up and running.

I think the dairy farmer is keeping a lot of things going right now. If the milk price drops I'd say there could be trouble.

kerryjack · 08-04-2021 10:06am

Thats the price we pay for Instant gratification, we want it made, we want it now and we want it delivered to the door. People want there houses now finished to a very high standard and are not shy of complaining and can get very upset if things aren't right for them, god knows they didn't spend 2 years sitting on deck chairs on a concrete floor in a sitting room trying to put a few Bob together to buy a bit of carpet and a suite of furniture. I can still remember the grandfather making a chair for him self out of a piece of wood hand carving it and suganing it. No sleeping or depression tablets needed back than. Might be time we got back to milling our own timber shouldn't be that hard to make up one for back of tractor if a lad put his mind to it and have enough cop on not to cut the fingers off himself.

wrangler · 08-04-2021 10:15am

kerryjack wrote: »

Thats the price we pay for Instant gratification, we want it made, we want it now and we want it delivered to the door. People want there houses now finished to a very high standard and are not shy of complaining and can get very upset if things aren't right for them, god knows they didn't spend 2 years sitting on deck chairs on a concrete floor in a sitting room trying to put a few Bob together to buy a bit of carpet and a suite of furniture. I can still remember the grandfather making a chair for him self out of a piece of wood hand carving it and suganing it. No sleeping or depression tablets needed back than. Might be time we got back to milling our own timber shouldn't be that hard to make up one for back of tractor if a lad put his mind to it and have enough cop on not to cut the fingers off himself.

A very sound celebrity on BBC has labelled the present generation of children as Snowflakes, so it's the way they're being reared/ spoilt

older by the day · 09-04-2021 12:54am

kerryjack wrote: »

Thats the price we pay for Instant gratification, we want it made, we want it now and we want it delivered to the door. People want there houses now finished to a very high standard and are not shy of complaining and can get very upset if things aren't right for them, god knows they didn't spend 2 years sitting on deck chairs on a concrete floor in a sitting room trying to put a few Bob together to buy a bit of carpet and a suite of furniture. I can still remember the grandfather making a chair for him self out of a piece of wood hand carving it and suganing it. No sleeping or depression tablets needed back than. Might be time we got back to milling our own timber shouldn't be that hard to make up one for back of tractor if a lad put his mind to it and have enough cop on not to cut the fingers off himself.

Jayus I take it your not married, if I went milling furniture and go suganing whatever, it wouldn't be left in the yard

patsy_mccabe · 09-04-2021 8:38am

Young guy across the road here, ordered a skip and had it full when his father in law had a look tru it. A perfectly good aluminium ladder thrown away.
He brought me in to show me the ladder. He threw it out because it had paint splatters on it. The look of bewilderment on the father in law was priceless.

amacca · 09-04-2021 9:19am

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Young guy across the road here, ordered a skip and had it full when his father in law had a look tru it. A perfectly good aluminium ladder thrown away.
He brought me in to show me the ladder. He threw it out because it had paint splatters on it. The look of bewilderment on the father in law was priceless.

That's revolting ....perfectly good ladder, with a bit of patina to add to it's authenticity.

I'd nearly have yer man shot for throwing something like that out but I'd definitely secretly hope he ends up needing a ladder at some time in the future with no money to buy one.

Stuff like that is a crime to me.

Reggie. · 09-04-2021 10:45am

amacca wrote: »

That's revolting ....perfectly good ladder, with a bit of patina to add to it's authenticity.

I'd nearly have yer man shot for throwing something like that out but I'd definitely secretly hope he ends up needing a ladder at some time in the future with no money to buy one.

Stuff like that is a crime to me.

+1

Gillespy · 09-04-2021 12:59pm

Neighbour works in a dump in Tralee and lands with some great stuff every so often. All sorts of tools, chains, brand new slings and ratchet straps, shovels, yard brushes. Great car to see coming. Unbelievable how it ends up in there.

amacca · 09-04-2021 1:43pm

Mother here still pissed off at sister in law almost 40 years later

When she moved in with my uncle into the homeplace she sent a load of stuff to the dump to (some of which was used in a small local shop the family used to run)....to be replaced with what my mother politely called tat (you know auld ****e furnishings and wallpaper etc long since decayed to nothing)

A really good set of scales with all the little counter weights, singer sewing machine etc etc

Never forgave her as it was her parents place and she wasn't even asked would she like some of the stuff, some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

I doubt you would be able to get stuff with that kind of quality and longevity now and some fool houseproud busybody ninny just chucks it in the bin.

blue5000 · 09-04-2021 2:51pm

amacca wrote: »

Mother here still pissed off at sister in law almost 40 years later

When she moved in with my uncle into the homeplace she sent a load of stuff to the dump to (some of which was used in a small local shop the family used to run)....to be replaced with what my mother politely called tat (you know auld ****e furnishings and wallpaper etc long since decayed to nothing)

A really good set of scales with all the little counter weights, singer sewing machine etc etc

Never forgave her as it was her parents place and she wasn't even asked would she like some of the stuff, some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

I doubt you would be able to get stuff with that kind of quality and longevity now and some fool houseproud busybody ninny just chucks it in the bin.

A 200 year old Georgian mahogany table (or any other solid mahogany furniture) is cheaper to buy than new ikea chipboard and oak veneer sh1te today. Some MP was slagged off with the words 'you bought your furniture'.

timple23 · 09-04-2021 6:17pm

blue5000 wrote: »

A 200 year old Georgian mahogany table (or any other solid mahogany furniture) is cheaper to buy than new ikea chipboard and oak veneer sh1te today. Some MP was slagged off with the words 'you bought your furniture'.

Its a disgrace that we have to put up with so much scrutiny from environmentalist, when companies are getting away with blue murder with planned obsolescence.

amacca · 09-04-2021 6:40pm

timple23 wrote: »

Its a disgrace that we have to put up with so much scrutiny from environmentalist, when companies are getting away with blue murder with planned obsolescence.

I'd agree, I don't mind the scrutiny, if there's a problem let's fix it but planned obsolescence has to be one of the biggest environmental problem and it'll take them a long time to get around to that because far too many business modela rely heavily on it. It's frustrating when they focus on the cobwebs in the corner of the room and ignore the giant elephants sitting down on the sofa watching television and eating all the good biscuits.

older by the day · 09-04-2021 7:56pm

Got 4 inch quarry pipes in Oct for 12 Euro. 15.50 today . Got a text, bale plastic is on the way up

Dunedin · 09-04-2021 8:03pm

[quote="older by the day;116839925"Got a text, bale plastic is on the way up[/quote]

Heard today it could be as high as €95 a roll.

Reggie. · 09-04-2021 8:29pm

Dunedin wrote: »

Heard today it could be as high as €95 a roll.

Hardly

kevthegaff · 09-04-2021 8:34pm

I tell people just get the kids clothes when their getting presents. People will go for chape Chinese doll houses etc that fall apart after 3 days and are fecked Into the bin

farawaygrass · 09-04-2021 9:02pm

kevthegaff wrote: »

I tell people just get the kids clothes when their getting presents. People will go for chape Chinese doll houses etc that fall apart after 3 days and are fecked Into the bin

Stop the amount of crap bought as presents for our kids is sinful. There is even way too much good quality stuff bought. They hardly play with 1/4 of it. Every present they get now for Christmas or birthday is as good as a main present. We pled every year with relations to cut back but it’s worse it’s getting. I know there is a hell of a lot worse complaints to have too but I can’t help but think of the poor kids that are less fortunate

mr.stonewall · 09-04-2021 9:40pm

farawaygrass wrote: »

Stop the amount of crap bought as presents for our kids is sinful. There is even way too much good quality stuff bought. They hardly play with 1/4 of it. Every present they get now for Christmas or birthday is as good as a main present. We pled every year with relations to cut back but it’s worse it’s getting. I know there is a hell of a lot worse complaints to have too but I can’t help but think of the poor kids that are less fortunate

See it here with the 2 smallies. Best craic they have had over the past few weeks was in the garden playing with water in containers, worms and bugs, and finally a blanket thrown from the couch to a side table. Now it's there den and the cushions from the couch are gone into it. Kids want to use their imagination and want to have fun. Dread Christmas with the amount of stuff that comes in

Grueller · 09-04-2021 9:53pm

mr.stonewall wrote: »

See it here with the 2 smallies. Best craic they have had over the past few weeks was in the garden playing with water in containers, worms and bugs, and finally a blanket thrown from the couch to a side table. Now it's there den and the cushions from the couch are gone into it. Kids want to use their imagination and want to have fun. Dread Christmas with the amount of stuff that comes in

I have a pile of spoil from digging a tank in the corner of the yard. Last year I had a lad look at it to get rid of it. The same evening I watched my 9 year old son jumping from rock to rock, swinging a sword at the pirates following him. I stood and watched from a distance for 10 minutes. He was having the best fun I ever saw. He didn't see me but I decided that the pile of spoil was staying there for a few years yet. No PlayStation could ever create what he had from an imagination. The toy sword was the only bought toy there.

green daries · 09-04-2021 11:04pm

Jjameson wrote: »

Who do we owe this money to? Will they live long enough to recoup it? And can we kill the bastard!?

We might get two birds with the one stone as well.....
....he /she is probably investing heavily in plant based heavily manufacturing food ie vegan

Bleating Lamb · 09-04-2021 11:08pm

Grueller wrote: »

I have a pile of spoil from digging a tank in the corner of the yard. Last year I had a lad look at it to get rid of it. The same evening I watched my 9 year old son jumping from rock to rock, swinging a sword at the pirates following him. I stood and watched from a distance for 10 minutes. He was having the best fun I ever saw. He didn't see me but I decided that the pile of spoil was staying there for a few years yet. No PlayStation could ever create what he had from an imagination. The toy sword was the only bought toy there.

Who are ya telling about using their imagination!...lad here has all the tractors,balers,wrappers.mowers etc etc.....big field of fake grass,sheds to beat the band and around 40 of the proper plastic cows, then sheep,pigs etc etc....havn't seen him play with them once in last few months!....is on the feckin Xbox too much playing online with classmates....am going to get him playing with them when we get our annual May heatwave outside the house....come hell or high water:)

Have often told him how when I was 7 or 8 I used to play for hours using the berries from Blackthorns as my 'cows'!....a Quix washing up liquid bottle with the top cut off it was 'the lorry'...and moved them from 'field to field' between the concrete slabs on Septic tank for home house.

Ah great times:)

09-04-2021 11:45pm

Jjameson wrote: »

Who do we owe this money to? Will they live long enough to recoup it? And can we kill the bastard!?

What ever entities buy our bonds a lot of the time the ecb I think.

The last year has been mad, money out of fresh air yet we can't sort homelessness and housing.

Just tells you what money really is, a mechanism of controlling the masses.

Green farmer · 10-04-2021 12:05am

mr.stonewall wrote: »

See it here with the 2 smallies. Best craic they have had over the past few weeks was in the garden playing with water in containers, worms and bugs, and finally a blanket thrown from the couch to a side table. Now it's there den and the cushions from the couch are gone into it. Kids want to use their imagination and want to have fun. Dread Christmas with the amount of stuff that comes in

Loved it when my kids were smaller. A bulky present would come into the house and the kids would get more fun playing with the cardboard box which housed the present as opposed to the present itself.

Dinzee Conlee · 10-04-2021 7:47am

Green farmer wrote: »

Loved it when my kids were smaller. A bulky present would come into the house and the kids would get more fun playing with the cardboard box which housed the present as opposed to the present itself.

This!
Almost every time - the box would become a house or a fort or a bus or a tunnel

Another thing the kids here knock savage craic out of is chalk on the tar outside. They draw towns and houses and the like and have savage craic going to the shop or robbing the bank or the likes

893bet · 10-04-2021 7:54am

Deleted User wrote: »

Just tells you what money really is, a mechanism of controlling the masses.

Yes it’s the Illuminati. We need a reset.

This is the nonsense I see posted regularly.

Nekarsulm · 10-04-2021 8:09am

Deleted User wrote: »

What ever entities buy our bonds a lot of the time the ecb I think.

The last year has been mad, money out of fresh air yet we can't sort homelessness and housing.

Just tells you what money really is, a mechanism of controlling the masses.

I read somewhere that more US dollars have been printed in the last few years than in all of the history of the currency, that is an incredible fact ( if true) and must lead to runaway inflation eventually.

Homelessness, or at least the visible version of it , is almost always the result of addiction or anti-social behaviour or mental health issues, and that's a very different problem to solve than just providing more housing.

Green farmer · 10-04-2021 8:47am

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

This!
Almost every time - the box would become a house or a fort or a bus or a tunnel

Another thing the kids here knock savage craic out of is chalk on the tar outside. They draw towns and houses and the like and have savage craic going to the shop or robbing the bank or the likes

Same here. Simple things. A euro or two on some chalk meant loads of fun. Let them draw whatever they wanted as the rain would wash it away and they could start again next day. The only good thing about the last recession was gave us a opportunity to focus more on the simple things in life. Sometimes when things are booming things can get overlooked and it becomes keeping up with the Jones.

Bullocks · 10-04-2021 9:20am

Green farmer wrote: »

Same here. Simple things. A euro or two on some chalk meant loads of fun. Let them draw whatever they wanted as the rain would wash it away and they could start again next day. The only good thing about the last recession was gave us a opportunity to focus more on the simple things in life. Sometimes when things are booming things can get overlooked and it becomes keeping up with the Jones.

Keeping up with the Jones must be the most depressing way I can think of living.

Jb1989 · 10-04-2021 9:56am

Green farmer wrote: »

Same here. Simple things. A euro or two on some chalk meant loads of fun. Let them draw whatever they wanted as the rain would wash it away and they could start again next day. The only good thing about the last recession was gave us a opportunity to focus more on the simple things in life. Sometimes when things are booming things can get overlooked and it becomes keeping up with the Jones.

I think the beginning of first lockdown was a better focus on simple life.
Even during the recession there was some with money still buying away.
The fact we were trapped at home this year done more.

Suckler · 10-04-2021 12:27pm

wrangler wrote: »

A very sound celebrity on BBC has labelled the present generation of children as Snowflakes, so it's the way they're being reared/ spoilt

Well if its a "very sound celebrity" it must be true...:rolleyes:

I'll take parenting advice from celebs with a very large pinch of salt.

I love when this comes up, as if my generation/previous generations were some sort of hard working beacons of light, with superior morals and ethics that the current generation aren't fit to measure up to. It's laughable.

I don't envy anyone coming out of school/college these days. Jobs & careers, qualification expectancy, performance evaluation requirements, personal & social expectations & hopes; are all massively different to what previous generations had experienced.

10-04-2021 1:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What ever entities buy our bonds a lot of the time the ecb I think.

The last year has been mad, money out of fresh air yet we can't sort homelessness and housing.

Just tells you what money really is, a mechanism of controlling the masses.

893bet wrote: »

Yes it’s the Illuminati. We need a reset.

This is the nonsense I see posted regularly.

I exchange my time for money in a job. Isnt that a form of control.

All of a sudden they just start printing money to bail out cruise ship companies and airlines etc and we see the value of our money fall.

Stihl waters · 10-04-2021 1:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just tells you what money really is, a mechanism of controlling the masses.

I'll have to disagree with you, the formation of loans and borrowing is what controls you, if you don't owe money you can have a relatively carefree existence,.
However most of us will borrow to buy land, house etc. A lot of the problem is not being happy with what was left to you, 30 or 40 acres in a will can turn into 80 acres or 140 acres and a big loan and a tractor needed to farm it, what our parents survived on wouldn't do us as our generation wanted more and bigger machinery.
I'm just commenting on the farming aspect of it but its across the board in every part of culture, the hippy in a mobile has often a happier life than the lad killing himself with 150 milkers and big loans or the the lad above on a roof with a 40 grand jeep, keep the banks away from your door and life simple and things often look better, in my experience anyway

wrangler · 10-04-2021 2:56pm

Suckler wrote: »

Well if its a "very sound celebrity" it must be true...:rolleyes:

I'll take parenting advice from celebs with a very large pinch of salt.

I love when this comes up, as if my generations/previous generations were some sort of hard working beacons of light, with superior morals and ethics that the current generation aren't fit to measure up to. It's laughable.

I don't envy anyone coming out of school/college these days. Jobs & careers, qualification expectancy, performance evaluation requirements, personal & social expectations & hopes; are all massively different to what previous generations had experienced.

I've a friend, older than I am, in a so called partnership with his son. Any time I'm over there and I ask where his son is, he says ''driving children'' so who's the snowflake there..... there's three generations of them there

Suckler · 10-04-2021 3:12pm

wrangler wrote: »

I've a friend, older than I am, in a so called partnership with his son. Any time I'm over there and I ask where his son is, he says ''driving children'' so who's the snowflake there..... there's three generations of them there

Anytime you're over there as well, convenient. Well on that 'evidence' I'm convinced. Snowflakes the lot of them.

wrangler · 10-04-2021 3:24pm

Suckler wrote: »

Anytime you're over there as well, convenient. Well on that 'evidence' I'm convinced. Snowflakes the lot of them.

Don't you know we're all a band of liars on here, I don't care enough to bother lying on here
Actually we'll leave lying to Beef Plan

Not many spoilt pups in this family
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/todays-children-cant-look-after-themselves-says-tv-shepherdess-amanda-owen-xmrrpxx3l

Suckler · 10-04-2021 3:45pm

wrangler wrote: »

Don't you know we're all a band of liars on here, I don't care enough to bother lying on here
Actually we'll leave lying to Beef Plan

It's disingenuous. You care enough to come on and wax lyrical about "snowflakes" despite obviously no experience of what you're complaining about.

Would generalisations about farmers be as accepted by you...not a hope.

wrangler wrote: »

Not many spoilt pups in this family
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/todays-children-cant-look-after-themselves-says-tv-shepherdess-amanda-owen-xmrrpxx3l

Again, a "celebrity" with an agenda and a profile to maintain says so....

“The snowflake generation, they can’t do anything”, Owen, 46, told Radio Times. “They don’t know anything about how to look after themselves, or a work ethic — all of that has gone out of the window.”

It's patent lies by her without any backup for a sweeping generalisation, but its ok because it keeps her profile relevant and ultimately keeps money coming in.

Again, I'll take statements like that with a hefty lump of scepticism.

trg · 10-04-2021 6:59pm

God this thread is desperate, moany whingers

wrangler · 10-04-2021 7:03pm

Stihl waters wrote: »

I'll have to disagree with you, the formation of loans and borrowing is what controls you, if you don't owe money you can have a relatively carefree existence,.
However most of us will borrow to buy land, house etc. A lot of the problem is not being happy with what was left to you, 30 or 40 acres in a will can turn into 80 acres or 140 acres and a big loan and a tractor needed to farm it, what our parents survived on wouldn't do us as our generation wanted more and bigger machinery.
I'm just commenting on the farming aspect of it but its across the board in every part of culture, the hippy in a mobile has often a happier life than the lad killing himself with 150 milkers and big loans or the the lad above on a roof with a 40 grand jeep, keep the banks away from your door and life simple and things often look better, in my experience anyway

You don't want to have an anxious disposition or prone to depression to be borrowing money.
If any thing goes wrong the banks and the loan will make it a hundred times worse

amacca · 10-04-2021 7:13pm

trg wrote: »

God this thread is desperate, moany whingers

Are you not making a bit of whingy observation there ?

On your way to a positive thread for positive people:D

carrollsno1 · 10-04-2021 7:20pm

wrangler wrote: »

You don't want to have an anxious disposition or prone to depression to be borrowing money.
If any thing goes wrong the banks and the loan will make it a hundred times worse

The uncle thats done fairly well for himself over in the states told me the amount of money i borrow isnt the issue if its €10,000 or €100,000 but no matter what the amount is if youre not going to be able to sleep at night over it forget about it.

wrangler · 10-04-2021 7:24pm

carrollsno1 wrote: »

The uncle thats done fairly well for himself over in the states told me the amount of money i borrow isnt the issue if its €10,000 or €100,000 but no matter what the amount is if youre not going to be able to sleep at night over it forget about it.

It's like bereavement, you're young, you think you're tough until the sh.. hits the fan.
We all know people that couldn't handle it and topped themselves

Is it me??

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