The kickstarter adventures of Sólás - solaswatches.com

Fitz II wrote: »

How would tungsten carbide hold up in the clasp, smaller areas of metal, friction and moving parts? I use Tungsten drill bits a lot, and while they hold a lovely sharp edge they love to shatter at any thin point.

Yes - it's why there is so much added expense to try and make one that works and isn't going to fall apart (you're getting tungsten for the other lovely properties but need to work around the brittle factor - same as if making a ceramic watch/bracelet).

On the other hand tungsten rings are great - shiny forever and in an emergency you can just crack it off the finger instead of worrying of being unable to cut it off the swollen digit.

Very interesting results from the WUS poll - only 24.4% went for hate - it may have been influenced by me placing ALS, Patek, VC, Omega etc as examples of butterfly clasps - more people said they love it than hate it surprisingly.

I personally tolerate it - would be more in favour of having microadjust - though from discussions it can be added at an expense it seems.

@Banie - many thanks for your post - the 3D model arrived today and the proportions all check out. @FitzII - many thanks for your models too. I'll try and crack open the new 3d printer myself this weekend and try some prints perhaps.

And for anyone who wants to see a sneak peak of the Sólás Equinox - I just put up an Instagram post:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CNIasUCrwdz/?igshid=10tzrcgj4ukbb

Move over silicon - then again - doesn't the sistem 51 use plastic gears too? (1 screw in total!)
https://www.europastar.com/magazine/features/1004087135-swatch-group-stripping-down-the-sistem51.html

Sólás Sistem Sixty-six - Sólás system actually is kinda catchy too :pac:

Lots of number crunching today... and plenty of nice developments on the Equinox front.

Putting in realistic numbers - the Equinox minimum funding target will probably be around 150,000 euro (and guessing that maybe 20x watches are pre-ordered outside of KS) - and that wouldn't include myself self funding a large portion too. People will be able to see how much of an increase that is from the Starlight's minimum funding requirements and can probably make a guesstimate of how much costs have increased for the Equinox model.

The break down is roughly 20 anticipated pre-orders (though no idea if that number is high or low) = 261 units to be effectively "pre-ordered" via KS and myself funding the rest of production costs.

Had a reviewer say to me "when are you going to realise that Sólás isn't a budget brand?" meaning if I set prices higher I wouldn't have to stress about trying to squeeze out 20-30 euro savings from one place to the next. But he accepted my point that there is are very specific reasons I'm doing Sólás and specific goals (which include trying to keep it relatively affordable to people) so it's more about trying to see what is possible in the sub 800-1000 euro area than making a Monta.

One thing for sure - CE Starlight owners should be happy to see what our other Sólás pieces genuinely cost and enjoy the value they got from the CE Starlight.

There's also the point that ultimately one day Sólás will be building a 5 minute repeater - if we remain in the 300-500 arena that will make the repeater goal less likely as you jump from 3-400 (remember this is without vat so already 380-500 with VAT) to a 4k piece (which is still crazily cheap for a 5 min repeater).

And speaking to GPHG members - the dream is get to a win for Ireland at the GPHG come Sólás Lir.

I'm certainly not Rado (who were one of the forerunners with tungsten with their Diastar models in the past) - but taking something comparable(ish) - you can see the difference in price between a ceramic model and their stainless steel Captain Cook models (all else being equal):

1. Stainless steel - https://www.rado.com/collections/captain-cook/captain-cook/R32105318 - 2,390 euro rrp
2. Ceramic (case and bracelet) - https://www.rado.com/collections/captain-cook/captain-cook-ht-ceramic/R32127152 - 3600chf/3200 euro rrp.

From what I understand about material/manufacturing costs Rado would be making more money/margin from their stainless steel model than the ceramic one. But Sólás is no Rado that's for sure - so increases are smaller - but then my tungsten version at KS isn't costing 2.3k either - you can make a rough guess of what a SS version of the Equinox would cost based on the Rado comparison though.

@Banie - you raise a good point - perhaps we could do a stainless steel Equinox to make it more affordable for people too - but that would feel more "commercial" to me in that it's making money from a much cheaper product and will be less "special" - relying instead of people loving the Sólás design to choose it over a NTH sub/tudor homage or any number of great stainless steel dive watch microbrand or factory brand models.

A stainless steel Equinox like 893 and others point out - *may* be more likely to get made as I'll have a chance to lower prices quite a bit... but a tungsten Equinox (and we'll have a ratcheting tungsten clasp - I've squeezed out pennies from elsewhere) is what will get us featured on the largest watch publications in the world (I hope!)

So if Sólás becomes a well-known brand and our design language is something that people enjoy so much that they'd be happy to have something in steel then one day one might be released - it'd be easier to make money from a SS model for sure compared to a tungsten model.... similar to the eagrán brádan feasa - this time the whole Equinox tungsten model line is a "halo" product for Sólás - demonstrating to people that Sólás is here to do things that no microbrand is willing to risk and do. And in the background building reputation and trust towards the repeater goal.

^ There's risk of course - that people will look at it and say "meh - not interested" - and that will teach the rest of the microbrand industry too to perhaps stay safe and continue making sub homages.

But I think experimentation can be rewarded too - the KS pricing is actually shooting Sólás in the foot in that popular microbrand stores are only willing to offer pricing that are based on our lowest KS price rather than our genuine retail prices - I'm willing to put prices as low as possible to get the watch made at the KS stage but yeah - the Equinox (at retail) *should* (based on manufacturing cost) be a 1k+ euro watch. People will know I'm serious when the retail Starlights come out at the true retail prices too - KS Starlights were a great deal (though now people have a choice of Lobinni - not if you want aventurine and original design too) - the KS Equinox will still be a great deal too (it's just that the product has become a lot more expensive for me to produce).


...oh and if Equinox/model 2 succeeds - you guys have already seen that model 3 is a tourbillon - it's going to be more audacious than a tungsten micro-rotor diver :pac: - leading ultimately to model 6 our repeater...

Ah understood - I've been leery of plating (PVD/DLC is very different to gold plating of the past I know) - it's why I don't ask for double sided anti-reflective coating on the sapphire crystal (actually one pro a mineral crystal has over sapphire is anti-reflective properties) as coatings inevitably get worn over time (and Sólás may have reduced ability to get things re-plated over time).

Intrinsically I prefer "natural" - solid stuff through and through - it's just inherently scratch proof - though for example Hamtun's PVD on titanium has held up okay (though I don't wear it that often) I have seen on the facebook groups of other people who have had theirs wear off after a month of wear.

With a SS bracelet you might lose some inherent balance on the watch too as you have a pretty heavy head and a light bracelet. Tungsten is interesting due to its weight too (which will put off some others I'm sure who would prefer titanium or SS bracelets) - but the point being they can go and buy nice titanium or SS bracelets - you can't buy a nice tungsten bracelet at all right now - and never could get one with a ratcheting clasp.

Yes - it's going to be appealing to a specific niche audience - but that's the power of crowdfunding and why you're paying 8% to KS in fees - trying to locate the niche of people worldwide who may be interested in such a niche product that has never been made before.

It will also appeal to the facebook watch collector groups who already have a titanium diver, ss diver, now there is something genuinely different for them to purchase too (in the diver category) and I would see PVD as a "half-measure" with pros (cost) and cons of its own.

Wibbs wrote: »

It's odd about the titanium finishes today apparently not being so durable for many and I've read that a few times myself on forums and reviews. How did both Longines and IWC make their carbide coatings on Ti so durable way back in the 80's? One sales trick Longines suggested to retailers was to take one of their Ti watches and drag it down a brick wall in front of the customer to show off how tough it was. OK, neither were cheap watches at the time, but still you'd think with big improvements in manufacturing in the interim it could be more easily done today?

Citizen still has it called "duratect" coatings on their titanium.

I guess there are things which are easier for Chinese factories to do - and asking them to spend tens of thousands (or more I genuinely don't know the cost of this research) when their normal buyers aren't demanding it (or paying for it) means that development has been stagnant.

For Chinese manufacturers it's much easier to be safe (they love working with Seiko NH35s and Miyota 8/9 series) and churn out easily sell-able items. Doing a Chinese duratect coating? That requires risk and investment - easier money to be made doing grade 2 titanium (sometimes a client offers to buy grade 5) or get 904L steel.

A big challenge has been finding partners who are happy to say "we can do that (for a price)" - because so many potential Chinese partners would rather keep on making good money doing homages instead. I've been trying to find someone who could ultimately have the technical ability as well as the drive to create the repeater model.

I would have thought that potentially if the coating is thin then it would be even easier to crack vs a solid piece of tungsten carbide?

It's funny though - with tungsten it's sometimes not the actual force of impact (I've done some experiments with tungsten pieces - throwing them at the ground (not just dropping) to see the effects and it can often be *how* it hits the ground, not how hard it hits that determines if cracking occurs - i.e. taking a chisel and impacting an edge is pretty much the worse case scenario for tungsten - so the design of the case/bracelet has taken that into account and avoided edges or stress points where possible and buttressing up support where we had edges for design reasons.

We've been designing this for some time now - it's certainly not just "ah - it'll do" - a lot of interesting engineering challenges were overcome with the design

You fellow date lovers seem to be outnumbered majorly if facebook is to be believed (in terms of enthusiast/microbrand groups). I've added your 2 votes in for date but before your responses it was 13/5 in favour of no-date actually (I didn't count myself).

RG and S are neck and neck (10/10) in terms of preference, but it's 13/7 for nodate vs date - which is very very surprising to me (I'll be waiting to see what the store and brand owners say too).

So far out of the people that expressed concrete preferences it was:
RG 3
RG ND: 5
S 3
S ND: 7

Fitz II wrote: »

I assume the rose gold is plated?

Yes - but with the plating in the indices being inside the watch it won't ever be affected by wear.

Oh and it's only the colour of rose gold not the Au750 material (in case anyone thought otherwise).

Fact of the day - the "German Silver" like the type that Langë uses as its baseplate material is also known as Nickel Silver (like what Newbridge uses on its higher quality EPNS cutlery) and isn't Ag925 or silver at all - but a nice nickel/zinc/copper alloy - was discussing that with some other watch fans recently.