What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

LLMMLL · 08-04-2021 05:34PM

fin12 wrote: »

I was told I would be offered the AstraZeneca one again after going to the back of the queue, so what choice was that ?

The choice to get vaccinated or not. Nobody is entitled to the vaccine of their preference. Why do you expect this choice given that in a limited supply environment it will deny others the same choice?

appledrop · 08-04-2021 05:38PM

Just so people are aware we may have reached 1,000,000 vaccines doses in Ireland but only over 200,000 have been AZ jab.

So first rare blood clot case reached after 200,000.

LLMMLL · 08-04-2021 05:39PM

Jane1012 wrote: »

So you’re not vulnerable then lucky you. I am in a vulnerable state due to the decisions I have to make very soon for both myself and my unborn child. I can assure you I have the mental capacity to make a decision but why should I have to make it with a gun to my head right now while everything is still being investigated. I shouldn’t have to! All I am saying is I remain very high risk, it shouldn’t be a just take it, it’s fine but NIAC are reviewing so may change in the coming days. I am being told to take a vaccine that according to the HSE guide has only been given to pregnant animals, whereas in the same guide it mentions MRNA vaccines have been given to over 15,000 pregnant woman. But if I don’t, it’s off with your head and back of the Q!

If you do not want people to question your opinions because you feel vulnerable right now then maybe the internet isn’t the best place for you right now. It’s not exactly known for enhancing people’s mental health.

It remains that you are asking for special treatment. You want to be able to wait and see. If we apply that to everyone who has concerns that essentially means stopping the vaccination program for an unspecified time. That means more deaths.

The only other option is that you as an individual get to wait and see while everyone else doesn’t. That is special treatment and should not happen.

stefanovich · 08-04-2021 05:39PM

astrofool wrote: »

I've never known this particular poster to back down, so my posts are for the audience of everyone else reading, and making it clear that the posts are alarmist and should be disregarded.

I'm sorry if you think I am being alarmist.

I asked you a specific question with regard to the contract between AZ and the EU and the clause which indemnifies AZ from litigation. You still haven't addressed it.

I back down pretty consistently when I am proven wrong.

fin12 · 08-04-2021 05:41PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

The choice to get vaccinated or not. Nobody is entitled to the vaccine of their preference. Why do you expect this choice given that in a limited supply environment it will deny others the same choice?

Look ur not going to understand cause u don’t have this in ur system right now and had no choice . And it seems all this bad side effects are affecting women . R u a woman ?

Jane1012 · 08-04-2021 05:44PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

If you do not want people to question your opinions because you feel vulnerable right now then maybe the internet isn’t the best place for you right now. It’s not exactly known for enhancing people’s mental health.

It remains that you are asking for special treatment. You want to be able to wait and see. If we apply that to everyone who has concerns that essentially means stopping the vaccination program for an unspecified time. That means more deaths.

The only other option is that you as an individual get to wait and see while everyone else doesn’t. That is special treatment and should not happen.

Suggest you look back over your posts, literally all I see is you picking at those who are conflicted, the problem here is you not them/me!

You also clearly don’t get special treatment - you don’t have a difficult decision to make!

LLMMLL · 08-04-2021 05:45PM

fin12 wrote: »

Look ur not going to understand cause u don’t have this in ur system right now and had no choice . And it seems all this bad side effects are affecting women . R u a woman ?

It’s not only affecting women. In the UK it’s around 50-60 women and about 30 men.

Surely if you believe 50 out of however many million they have vaccinated is too high then 30 would be?

Which means all your safety beliefs about who should be offered what would also apply to men, right?

LLMMLL · 08-04-2021 05:46PM

Jane1012 wrote: »

Suggest you look back over your posts, literally all I see is you picking at those who are conflicted, the problem here is you not them/me!

You also clearly don’t get special treatment - you don’t have a difficult decision to make!

I have the same decision as you. I’m in cohort 4. I don’t find it a difficult decision though.

Just because you are struggling with the decision doesn’t make it an objectively diffficult one.

I haven’t asked for special treatment. And I won’t.

astrofool · 08-04-2021 05:47PM

stefanovich wrote: »

I'm sorry if you think I am being alarmist.

I asked you a specific question with regard to the contract between AZ and the EU and the clause which indemnifies AZ from litigation. You still haven't addressed it.

I back down pretty consistently when I am proven wrong.

It was addressed a number of posts ago, AZ had the option to go for emergency approval and put the liability onto the governments as a result, and their contract would have allowed them to do so. They chose to go with CMA which puts the liability onto them, the terms of their contract were satisfied by having the choice, but they chose the option where they have liability (likely as other vaccines went this route, and they wanted to instil confidence in the vaccine).

As noted, I have just pointed out where your posting can sound alarmist, if that is not your intent, I am sure you will be able to adjust your posting style accordingly.

Jane1012 · 08-04-2021 05:47PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I have the same decision as you. I’m in cohort 4. I don’t find it a difficult decision though.

Just because you are struggling with the decision doesn’t make it an objectively diffficult one.

I haven’t asked for special treatment. And I won’t.

Glad it’s so easy for you then. We’re not going to agree so wish you the best and I’ll leave it at that!

fin12 · 08-04-2021 05:48PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

It’s not only affecting women. In the UK it’s around 50-60 women and about 30 men.

Surely if you believe 50 out of however many million they have vaccinated is too high then 30 would be?

Which means all your safety beliefs about who should be offered what would also apply to men, right?

I just think it’s easy to defend this vaccine when is literally not inside u . There’s more and more bad stuff coming out about this vaccine .

Triangle · 08-04-2021 05:53PM

stefanovich wrote: »

I'm sorry if you think I am being alarmist.

I asked you a specific question with regard to the contract between AZ and the EU and the clause which indemnifies AZ from litigation. You still haven't addressed it.

I back down pretty consistently when I am proven wrong.

The contract between the EU and AZ is that they can't be sued over the delivery. I. E. The contract.

Which has nothing to do with the vaccine side effects which come from the EMA authorisation and standard EU law.

It's been said a number of times now.

08-04-2021 05:56PM

Why are NIAC taking so much longer to decide on any age limits than the rest of the EU?

stefanovich · 08-04-2021 05:57PM

astrofool wrote: »

It was addressed a number of posts ago, AZ had the option to go for emergency approval and put the liability onto the governments as a result, and their contract would have allowed them to do so. They chose to go with CMA which puts the liability onto them, the terms of their contract were satisfied by having the choice, but they chose the option where they have liability (likely as other vaccines went this route, and they wanted to instil confidence in the vaccine).

As noted, I have just pointed out where your posting can sound alarmist, if that is not your intent, I am sure you will be able to adjust your posting style accordingly.

https://www.rai.it/dl/doc/2021/02/19/1613725900577_AZ_FIRMATO_REPORT.pdf

Here is the contract in full. Look at section 14.

stephenjmcd · 08-04-2021 06:01PM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Just a few hours after someone here decided equate this AZ vaccine to Paracetamol

And yet you still fail to comprehend the point being made was that rare side effects are listed on all medicines and vaccines, paracetamol being used as the example of an over the counter medication which contains some also quite nasty rare side effects, much like AZ contains a rare side effect.

I forgot to hit ignore but thankfully this has reminded me

Miike · 08-04-2021 06:02PM

Triangle wrote: »

The contract between the EU and AZ is that they can't be sued over the delivery. I. E. The contract.

Which has nothing to do with the vaccine side effects which come from the EMA authorisation and standard EU law.

It's been said a number of times now.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/eu_apa_-_executed_-_az_redactions.pdf

Sections 2.2, I draw your attention to (e) and section 14.

LLMMLL · 08-04-2021 06:05PM

fin12 wrote: »

I just think it’s easy to defend this vaccine when is literally not inside u . There’s more and more bad stuff coming out about this vaccine .

It’s also easy to attack the vaccine if it’s not inside you. As we have seen from other posters who are against AZ.

Does having the vaccine inside you give special insight into risk and public health?

fin12 · 08-04-2021 06:09PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

It’s also easy to attack the vaccine if it’s not inside you. As we have seen from other posters who are against AZ.

Does having the vaccine inside you give special insight into risk and public health?

No I’m just feeling very anxious n worried obviously even more now cause I’ve had it, don’t think that’s hard to understand .

Miike · 08-04-2021 06:24PM

fin12 wrote: »

No I’m just feeling very anxious n worried obviously even more now cause I’ve had it, don’t think that’s hard to understand .

It's okay to be anxious and worried but don't get sucked into the headlines. The risk as we understand it right now is tiny, I'd argue the stress you're putting on yourself right now is a higher risk factor for an embolism than the vaccine. I understand you're alarmed and a bit scared, I'd get away from the news and boards when you're feeling like that because the internet cultivates those feelings. Try to do something to take your mind off it and mind yourself. Keep an eye out for side effects and just go back to living your life

LLMMLL · 08-04-2021 06:24PM

fin12 wrote: »

No I’m just feeling very anxious n worried obviously even more now cause I’ve had it, don’t think that’s hard to understand .

Absolutely. I completely understand people being anxious.

But there’s a difference between that and some posters suggesting they should get special treatment (not saying you suggested that).

josip · 08-04-2021 06:27PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

...

We will not have enough Pfizer for everyone who wants it. If you “wait” in any other sense than going to the back of the queue that means someone else does not get their vaccine choice.
...

Not so sure about that.
The EU has ordered 500m doses of Pfizer with an option for 100m more which would be 6.7m doses for Ireland or 3.35m people out of 5m.
Considering a less than 100% uptake and that some will inevitably get AZ/J&J, I think there'll be a Pfizer this year for anyone who is prepared to wait for it.

Lesalare · 08-04-2021 06:29PM

fin12 wrote: »

No I’m just feeling very anxious n worried obviously even more now cause I’ve had it, don’t think that’s hard to understand .

Was going to write up earlier, I don't think you should be worrying too much, if at all. Do you have any medical issues which would make you more susceptible to clots? If I didn't, I wouldn't be so anti AZ or concerned.

I don't think this thread is helping anyone who shares similar concerns and no one on here have a clue what they are talking about re. any of the vaccines, they are just reading crap off various websites.

08-04-2021 06:30PM

Triangle wrote: »

The contract between the EU and AZ is that they can't be sued over the delivery. I. E. The contract.

Which has nothing to do with the vaccine side effects which come from the EMA authorisation and standard EU law.

It's been said a number of times now.

the EU (or rather, the member states) give a pretty hefty indemnity to AZ according to the contract.

LLMMLL · 08-04-2021 06:32PM

josip wrote: »

Not so sure about that.
The EU has ordered 500m doses of Pfizer with an option for 100m more which would be 6.7m doses for Ireland or 3.35m people out of 5m.
Considering a less than 100% uptake and that some will inevitably get AZ/J&J, I think there'll be a Pfizer this year for anyone who is prepared to wait for it.

I wouldn’t rely on that. Who knows how much of that will be directed to Covax.

And the government are not going to want to encourage vaccine hesitancy by rewarding those who wait. I’d say it will depend on many factors in the end.

Turtwig · 08-04-2021 06:32PM

fin12 wrote: »

No I’m just feeling very anxious n worried obviously even more now cause I’ve had it, don’t think that’s hard to understand .

My advice would be to talk to someone. It'd do you no harm. Try to ignore the reports in the media. Bad news sells better than good news. Hundreds of thousands people worldwide would have this vaccine on the same day as you. Ask yourself which you feel if more likely that you're that rare exceptional unlucky person or that you are the normal person?

Think of how many risky things you do everyday. Did you climb a stairs today? Step in a shower? Please realise you have to be really really unlucky for something to happen to you. Talk to someone and if you have any worrying symptoms contact your gp. Our assessment of risk is rarely rational. How you feel is how you feel. You need to discuss that anxiety with people in your support groups. People on this board can't help you.

Let us know how you're feeling in a few days. It's common to feel anxious after any new medication. I can only imagine what it's like to feel after one making reams in the media.

robinph · 08-04-2021 06:36PM

fin12 wrote: »

Look ur not going to understand cause u don’t have this in ur system right now and had no choice . And it seems all this bad side effects are affecting women . R u a woman ?

It's not only women, just there are higher numbers of younger women vaccinated so far as more women working in care professions.

The numbers are pretty even once you allow for the ratio's that have been vaccinated.

08-04-2021 06:45PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Absolutely. I completely understand people being anxious.

But there’s a difference between that and some posters suggesting they should get special treatment (not saying you suggested that).

If you're referring to me, I'm not looking for special treatment.

What I would like is for us to follow the lead of other European countries, Canada and Australia in placing age restrictions on AZ. The regulators in those countries, who Ireland would consider its peers, clearly believe it's warranted. I would breathe a huge sigh of relief that when my turn comes, I'll get a vaccine that doesn't have safety concerns hanging over it. Same for my relatives and friends. I'll be relieved that nobody will die from an avoidable clot.

I don't see how that makes me egocentric, as you called me earlier, or seeking special treatment. Safety matters for all of us.

Russman · 08-04-2021 06:49PM

Yeah I think it might be inevitable that we follow our peer countries and impose some age limit, probably 50 as a middle of the road number between the UK and the rest.
Depends on who wins the row between those more concerned about the clotting issue and those more concerned with a potential resulting delay in the program as a result imo.

FileNotFound · 08-04-2021 07:07PM

fin12 wrote: »

I just think it’s easy to defend this vaccine when is literally not inside u . There’s more and more bad stuff coming out about this vaccine .

Like what?

We know that it has limited immunity and now ar clear its linked to blood clotting.

What's the more and more exactly?

LLMMLL · 08-04-2021 07:09PM

Flying Fox wrote: »

If you're referring to me, I'm not looking for special treatment.

What I would like is for us to follow the lead of other European countries, Canada and Australia in placing age restrictions on AZ. The regulators in those countries, who Ireland would consider its peers, clearly believe it's warranted. I would breathe a huge sigh of relief that when my turn comes, I'll get a vaccine that doesn't have safety concerns hanging over it. Same for my relatives and friends. I'll be relieved that nobody will die from an avoidable clot.

I don't see how that makes me egocentric, as you called me earlier, or seeking special treatment. Safety matters for all of us.

Earlier you were talking about not being sent to the back of the queue but just being able to “wait” for your preferred vaccine.

You still haven’t explained how this would work in practice, even if an age restriction is put in place.

Say AZ is limited to over 60s. Once we vaccinate them with AZ we then have to do everyone else in order of age. When your age group is being vaccinated there will not be an unlimited supply of Pfizer. There is likely to be 1/4 AZ.

If you are assigned AZ it seems likely you will refuse. Can you specify exactly what should happen in this case?

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Comments