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Is this common practice when selling a house?

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  • 05-04-2021 11:23am
    #1
    SurplusToys
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭


    So I’m towards the end of the process of buying my first home.
    In the end we settled for 240k.

    The sellers solicitor is now asking that the price on the transfer deed be reduced to 225k.

    This figure of 225k according to the solicitor 240k minus 15k for furniture.


    Is this normal practice?


    Would appreciate hearing some opinions.
    Tagged:


«1345

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    #2
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,550 ✭✭✭Allinall


    SurplusToys wrote: »
    So I’m towards the end of the process of buying my first home.
    My first bid was 225k which was rejected.
    In the end we settled for 240k.

    The sellers solicitor is now asking that the price on the transfer deed be reduced to 225k.

    This figure of 225k according to the solicitor and estate agent is 240k minus 15k for furniture.

    I never ever agreed to buy any furniture and this is the 1st time I’ve ever heard of 15k number. If I was told furniture cost 15k I would of asked for it to be removed.

    Is this normal practice or have I been scammed?

    I’ve already transferred my 10% of the mortgage needed to my solicitor but my solicitor is holding off on requesting funds from my bank until this is sorted out.

    Would appreciate hearing some opinions.

    What does your solicitor say?

    It sounds like the seller is looking to reduce the sale price for some reason- possibly tax evasion.

    Personally I would be reluctant to enter into such an arrangement.

    Is there any “furniture “ included in the sale?


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    #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sounds totally illegal. Can you pull out now?


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    #4
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    I'd be putting a complaint into the PSRA, but I'm not sure that would help you much. Sellers may pull out if you don't play ball.


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    #5
    headtheball14
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭headtheball14


    This will reduce the tax they pay, also if they are dealing with a bank as in repossession this means that they can pay the bank 225 and pocket the rest. Ask them to detail the furniture and the price for each piece.
    It's basically fraudulent but not unheard of. Personally I wouldn't be keen.


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    #6
    Mundo7976
    Registered Users Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭Mundo7976


    Sounds like a bit of cash in hand for the seller, will usually say its for the purchase of furniture or a shed or something. You'll still be paying 240k if the furniture point is removed, they'll just have to pay the fees on the extra 15k. They may even pull out of the deal and find someone who's willing to pay part cash.


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    #7
    Xander10
    Registered Users Posts: 4,613 ✭✭✭Xander10


    Seems high value on furniture. Tell them you don't want the furniture and ask to agree to pay €15k less


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    #8
    SurplusToys
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SurplusToys


    I need to speak to my solicitor next week but he has concerns that changing the price on the title deeds might affect my loan offer from the bank.

    There is furniture in the house and we told that it would be left there.
    No mention of 15k was ever mentioned.
    Honestly one of the 1st things we were going to do when we moved in was to get the furniture collected and donate it somewhere.

    I'm not sure if it's too late to pull out.
    I do like the house but this (what seems like intentional deceit) has made me pretty angry to the point where I want to tell them to eff off


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    #9
    headtheball14
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭headtheball14


    They are chancing their arm to be honest, depends if you think it will go for more ,were there any bidders before? You could go back with a lower offer .


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    #10
    headtheball14
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭headtheball14


    If you haven't transferred the 10 percent or signed the contract you can pull out. You may have to pay solicitor fees but many will waive or reduce this if you go ahead with your final purchase


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    #11
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    SurplusToys wrote: »
    So I’m towards the end of the process of buying my first home.
    My first bid was 225k which was rejected.
    In the end we settled for 240k.

    The sellers solicitor is now asking that the price on the transfer deed be reduced to 225k.

    This figure of 225k according to the solicitor and estate agent is 240k minus 15k for furniture.

    I never ever agreed to buy any furniture and this is the 1st time I’ve ever heard of 15k number. If I was told furniture cost 15k I would of asked for it to be removed.

    Is this normal practice or have I been scammed?

    I’ve already transferred my 10% of the mortgage needed to my solicitor but my solicitor is holding off on requesting funds from my bank until this is sorted out.

    Would appreciate hearing some opinions.


    my mother bought a house for 365k recently but the price for stamp duty was 362k

    i dont see why you have a problem here ?, its a fairly common ( off the record ) approach, you are saving on stamp duty by over valuing the contents , what the vendor is saving should not concern you


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    #12
    SurplusToys
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SurplusToys


    I've transferred 10% to my solicitor.
    As far as I'm aware my solicitor hasn't paid this to the seller yet.
    Am I stuck?


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    #13
    SurplusToys
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SurplusToys


    I was the only person who put an offer on the house. It had been on the market for about 6 months.


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    #14
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Xander10 wrote: »
    Seems high value on furniture. Tell them you don't want the furniture and ask to agree to pay €15k less

    good luck with that in the current climate :rolleyes:


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    #15
    SurplusToys
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SurplusToys


    My solicitor told me the stamp duty would not be affected. The only thing that would be affected would be capital gains tax if I ever wanted to sell


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    #16
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    mountain out of a molehill


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    #17
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    SurplusToys wrote: »
    My solicitor told me the stamp duty would not be affected. The only thing that would be affected would be capital gains tax if I ever wanted to sell

    a house costing 225 K has a lower stamp duty bill than one at 240k , you are saving 150 euro


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    #18
    huskerdu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭huskerdu


    SurplusToys wrote: »
    I've transferred 10% to my solicitor.
    As far as I'm aware my solicitor hasn't paid this to the seller yet.
    Am I stuck?

    If you have signed the contract , you can’t pull out , but in this case, you should ask your solicitor.

    This sounds like an attempt to get you to collude on tax evasion. It was the sellers solicitor who suggested this . Why did you ask if the estate agent scammed you ? What did the estate agent do ?


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    #19
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,040 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I’m struggling to see how the EA scammed you, isn’t it the sellers solicitor who is requesting the new designation?

    Does this change the price you agreed to pay?


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    #20
    Taxburden carrier
    Registered Users Posts: 551 ✭✭✭Taxburden carrier


    SurplusToys wrote: »
    My solicitor told me the stamp duty would not be affected. The only thing that would be affected would be capital gains tax if I ever wanted to sell

    CGT on your primary residence?


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    #21
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,040 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Taxburden carrier wrote: »
    CGT on your primary residence?

    If seller lives there, not sure how the tax evasion angle would apply.


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    #22
    SurplusToys
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SurplusToys


    huskerdu wrote: »
    If you have signed the contract , you can’t pull out , but in this case, you should ask your solicitor.

    This sounds like an attempt to get you to collude on tax evasion. It was the sellers solicitor who suggested this . Why did you ask if the estate agent scammed you ? What did the estate agent do ?

    The estate agent sent a letter to the seller last month stating that

    "The sale has been agreed at 240k with 15k towards contents."

    Friday was the 1st time I saw this letter when my solicitor forwarded it to me.


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    #23
    SurplusToys
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SurplusToys


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    mountain out of a molehill

    I really do hope its a mountain out of a molehill.

    Could you elaborate on why you believe this please?


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    #24
    Vestiapx
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Vestiapx


    This is a case of the seller wanting to benefit at your expense or at least at no gain to you. Look for the compromise position where both you and the other party stand to gain and if they don't want to deal then either walk away or suck it up.


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    #25
    jhegarty
    Registered Users Posts: 6,436 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    SurplusToys wrote: »
    I've transferred 10% to my solicitor.
    As far as I'm aware my solicitor hasn't paid this to the seller yet.
    Am I stuck?

    No , you can still back out at this stage with no loss (apart from your solicitor's bill).
    SurplusToys wrote: »
    I was the only person who put an offer on the house. It had been on the market for about 6 months.


    You can also lower your offer at this stage.


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    #26
    SurplusToys
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SurplusToys


    Taxburden carrier wrote: »
    CGT on your primary residence?

    I dont really understand all of this but specifically he said CGT would be affected if I used the house as an investment property


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    #27
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    SurplusToys wrote: »
    The estate agent sent a letter to the seller last month stating that

    "The sale has been agreed at 240k with 15k towards contents."

    Friday was the 1st time I saw this letter when my solicitor forwarded it to me.

    you are not being scammed , the house costs 240 k regardless of whether you are getting contents or no more than the bulb holders in the ceiling , if you have a moral objection to the whole thing , thats fine but thats all this is here , you are not being conned out of extra money


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    #28
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    Taxburden carrier wrote: »
    CGT on your primary residence?

    What if it's not his primary residence when they want to sell?

    He will have to pay an extra €5k in CGT just for the benefit of this vendor.


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    #29
    SurplusToys
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SurplusToys


    Dav010 wrote: »
    If seller lives there, not sure how the tax evasion angle would apply.

    The seller owned the house just to rent it out. They weren't living there


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    #30
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭Mimon


    I know someone who went ahead in a similar situation. Was 10 grand for the contents. She presumed at the time that it was a vulture fund/bank selling it and it was a way for the previous owner to get some money out of the sale.

    As far as I'm aware her offer price was not bumped up by 10 grand. She just payed what she offered and 10 grand less went towards the house and went into the previous owners account. She had cash for 50% or so of the house so it was doable.

    She's had no consequences from this, if that's any good to you OP. Maybe talk to your solictor?


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    #31
    spodoinkle
    Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭spodoinkle


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    you are not being scammed , the house costs 240 k regardless of whether you are getting contents or no more than the bulb holders in the ceiling , if you have a moral objection to the whole thing , thats fine but thats all this is here , you are not being conned out of extra money

    If I bid 240 for a house and won, to be told when deposit paid "well actually you have paid 225 for the house and 15 for the contents you knew nothing about" how is it not a con


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