Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

02-04-2021 08:35AM

gansi wrote: »

Yes and of course it’ll be yet another expert !

Yep. And they all seem to be in the West. I never hear Russian scientists and doctors coming out with things like 'impending doom' (CDC director), 'masks and social distancing for years (Dr Mary Ramsay of PHE), 'masks for ever' (Professor John Edmunds of SAGE) and 'no large events for years' (Professor Tim Spector).

I never read statements like the above coming from South America, from Africa, or from anywhere else outside of the West. And we'd surely hear about it for the media love nothing more than a doomsday prediction. Dr Jay Bhattacharya said that when he was a medical student he was taught that that the most important thing a doctor can do is not to sow panic or create fear. And yet so many doctors and scientists in the West have spent over a year pushing fear and causing people to feel very distressed. And they're all in the West, as I say.

daydorunrun · 02-04-2021 08:42AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It's all too easy for the Government and NPHET to blame everyone else except themselves.

Just remember that when they're pointing the finger of blame at us there's 4 fingers pointing back at them.

Not to be pedantic but I’ve just tried this and it’s actually 3 fingers pointing back at them with a thumb in the air

Sharpyshoot · 02-04-2021 09:11AM

No one have a meaningful weekend now or we be riding a 4th wave.

Stormyteacup · 02-04-2021 09:45AM

gozunda wrote: »

Well I wouldn't be asking if it was? Can you show how you came by your figure of 12%? And reference the report used. Just curious.

But more importantly why do you think the HSPC data does not include the hospital figures?

You can have look at the 14 day reports from December to latest one, and the highest figure in any one report is 12% approx.

Regardless of what period Varadkar was referencing, at no point do the figures of healthcare acquired patient and healthcare acquired staff go above 12%.

That is because there is no correlation between those figures and the number of people already in hospital who have acquired Covid in hospital.

copeyhagen · 02-04-2021 09:47AM

its begun....

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/mi58a4/anyone_else_have_rising_anxiety_about_the_return/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

i knew r/Ireland had gone full pro lockdown lately (no idea why) but check that out.
"Anyone else have rising anxiety about the ‘return to normality"

Boggles · 02-04-2021 09:56AM

Trawling twitter and reddit to find outrage.

Probably time to log off and enjoy the weekend.

M_Murphy57 · 02-04-2021 09:56AM

copeyhagen wrote: »

its begun....

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/mi58a4/anyone_else_have_rising_anxiety_about_the_return/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

i knew r/Ireland had gone full pro lockdown lately (no idea why) but check that out.
"Anyone else have rising anxiety about the ‘return to normality"

Reddit is notorious as being a home for incels and this is a thread about someone worried they are too ugly to go back to socialising.

Very sad but hardly representative of most Irish peoples feelings. Christmas demonstrated most people will be out in public first chance they get.

02-04-2021 09:57AM

Sharpyshoot wrote: »

No one have a meaningful weekend now or we be riding a 4th wave.

I waxed the board just in case, government ads promoting exercise as part of their belated mental health awareness drive and I'll be doing exactly that during the fine spell. The wet suit will have to double as protection if those dastardly humans get too close, cautiously optimistic about surviving until Tuesday unless I faint with indignation.

copeyhagen · 02-04-2021 09:58AM

Boggles wrote: »

Trawling twitter and reddit to find outrage.

Probably time to log off and enjoy the weekend.

lol :rolleyes: just up, and that was on the front of my reddit feed.

unlike you, i dont spend my entire day, every day, in here trying to justify what everyone else knows is ridiculous at this stage.

i come here once a day probably. maybe you should try the same?

Boggles · 02-04-2021 10:01AM

copeyhagen wrote: »

lol :rolleyes: just up, and that was on the front of my reddit feed.

And you felt compelled to spread it?

Okay then.

MOR316 · 02-04-2021 10:01AM

Sharpyshoot wrote: »

No one have a meaningful weekend now or we be riding a 4th wave.

At least some people will get to ride something

Klonker · 02-04-2021 10:02AM

Del Griffith wrote: »

If the target was zero deaths from covid ever, then yes quite literally Ireland will be under restrictions forever (and I won't even bring up the ridiculous lack of qualification to count it as cause of death).

It will eventually be the same bracket as pneumonia I imagine. Some people will die as old/vulnerable people tend to do when they catch a severe dose of a virus or any illness. You'll just have to live with it.

I agree, unfortunately we have a new disease that is going to kill a number of people every year. With vaccines hopefully this number will be low enough.

The problem will be that I think the public will find it hard to accept these deaths, "if we just locked down we could of save xxx number of deaths". It seems a lot worse here than most countries, I guess it's to do with the fact we are a small country and nobody feels too far distanced from anyone else. Public health doctors seem to have the same mentality so I can see our restrictions being kept until we have a lot higher % vaccinated than the % at which other countries will ease there's. Wait a few months and conversation will change from getting majority vaccinated to getting majority fully vaccinated even though the stats show the first dose does the heavy lifting in terms of efficiency.

Sobit1964 · 02-04-2021 10:13AM

My business of 10 years got crushed in the 2008 crisis - I had to let 13 incredible staff go - all of which were able to find replacement jobs quickly.

I learned in the last crisis not to rely on the government or finance, and set about setting up a new business which was online and didn't require the traditional office, finance, or have any involvement with the multitude of useless supports which usually take more effort than their financial worth is.

I've just finished relocating my business to a more favourable country in the EU. I'm not going to weather the tax increases, decreased services, and grey depression of closed businesses this time around. Nor will I be working till the middle of each year just to hand over all earnings to fund the insane policies of an inept feeble government.

My current workforce in Ireland are free to WFH, but unsurprisingly all the single young ones, have opted to relocate.

Sun. Beers. Life. Taxed less than 20%.

Im not even that sad this time around, just jaded with Ireland - and voting with my feet and taxes.

Natterjack from Kerry · 02-04-2021 10:13AM

niallo27 wrote: »

I was up by UL today, amount of students buying beer was unreal. Great to see, I bought a load of cider myself. I'm done with the restrictions, I followed them 95% of the time and it made no difference, still stuck in level 5, i don't think anyone gives a **** anymore only the usual introverts on here.

The problem is in your own post. If you, and everyone else, had followed them 100% of the time, then we wouldn't have got stuck. And lives would have been saved.

timmyntc · 02-04-2021 10:17AM

Klonker wrote: »

I agree, unfortunately we have a new disease that is going to kill a number of people every year. With vaccines hopefully this number will be low enough.

The problem will be that I think the public will find it hard to accept these deaths, "if we just locked down we could of save xxx number of deaths". It seems a lot worse here than most countries, I guess it's to do with the fact we are a small country and nobody feels too far distanced from anyone else. Public health doctors seem to have the same mentality so I can see our restrictions being kept until we have a lot higher % vaccinated than the % at which other countries will ease there's. Wait a few months and conversation will change from getting majority vaccinated to getting majority fully vaccinated even though the stats show the first dose does the heavy lifting in terms of efficiency.

Its because people here are afraid - not borne out of sympathy.
People are afraid that covid might kill them or that they get the dreaded "long-covid" - and thats because the media have been endlessly reporting on covid like it is the end of days.

02-04-2021 10:17AM

Klonker wrote: »

I agree, unfortunately we have a new disease that is going to kill a number of people every year. With vaccines hopefully this number will be low enough.

The problem will be that I think the public will find it hard to accept these deaths, "if we just locked down we could of save xxx number of deaths". It seems a lot worse here than most countries, I guess it's to do with the fact we are a small country and nobody feels too far distanced from anyone else. Public health doctors seem to have the same mentality so I can see our restrictions being kept until we have a lot higher % vaccinated than the % at which other countries will ease there's. Wait a few months and conversation will change from getting majority vaccinated to getting majority fully vaccinated even though the stats show the first dose does the heavy lifting in terms of efficiency.

They might have to block cemeteries at this rate, leaving aside Covid momentarily there are people of advanced age/those with underlying health issues who will pass away annually. In their tens of thousands, and the stats pre-2020 verify this. And let's not overlook the trolley crisis every winter during a conventional flu season. My old man passed away from cancer last autumn, in the end there was nothing one could do to stop the inevitable. Deeply upsetting yes, but I'm mature enough to realise that none of us are immortal. It's ultimately an exercise in futility punishing vast majority of the population for the sake of a tiny minority near the end of their lives, trying to change the immutable fact that each one of us will shuffle off the mortal coil at some stage. I have an image of someone attempting to stop the advancing tide with a hurley, and NPHET/the government fit that metaphor perfectly.

niallo27 · 02-04-2021 10:20AM

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

The problem is in your own post. If you, and everyone else, had followed them 100% of the time, then we wouldn't have got stuck. And lives would have been saved.

Oh well, too late now. Time to move on.

gozunda · 02-04-2021 10:33AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yep. And they all seem to be in the West. I never hear Russian scientists and doctors coming out with things like 'impending doom' (CDC director), 'masks and social distancing for years (Dr Mary Ramsay of PHE), 'masks for ever' (Professor John Edmunds of SAGE) and 'no large events for years' (Professor Tim Spector).

I never read statements like the above coming from South America, from Africa, or from anywhere else outside of the West. And we'd surely hear about it for the media love nothing more than a doomsday prediction. Dr Jay Bhattacharya said that when he was a medical student he was taught that that the most important thing a doctor can do is not to sow panic or create fear. And yet so many doctors and scientists in the West have spent over a year pushing fear and causing people to feel very distressed. And they're all in the West, as I say.

So you keep saying. Fact is lots of opinions out there. And its not just the "west"

Quick search produced these from China. Do they fit the general conspiracy theory or?

From the official state-run press agency of the People's Republic of China referring to India and scientific opinion on mask wearing there

NEW DELHI, Nov. 29 (Xinhua) -- The head of India's top health research body Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR), Balram Bhargava has said health protocols to tackle the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic will stay for a long time and people will have to keep wearing masks even after a vaccine is available.

"Even after the vaccine is brought, the use of mask will stay to prevent COVID-19. It works like a vaccine. So it may have to be used for a long time," Bhargava was quoted as having said while speaking at a webinar titled Changing paradigms in COVID-19 management at Lucknow's King George Medical University on Saturday.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-11/29/c_139551048.htm

And on a related note - I love this one from The Chinese Global Times (a daily tabloid newspaper under the remit of the Chinese government) especially considering that the Chinese government refused to admit that there was any danger of P2P transmission at the start of the pandemic.

Mask-wearing policy essential as WHO admits virus is airborn.

The WHO's admission that the virus which causes COVID-19 can spread through airborne transmission proves that China's mandatory mask policy has saved millions of lives, and should rings a special alarm to countries that relaxed restrictions too fast and too soon, warned a Chinese virologist.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1193951.shtml

Boggles · 02-04-2021 10:38AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

We better start closing everything for a few months every flu season then so. After all, lives will be saved, and that's all that matters.

Mortality is not even the sole metric in this current phase of the pandemic, how people think it will be into the future is quite bizarre.

The vast majority of people who died never got near an ICU bed.

02-04-2021 10:38AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yep. And they all seem to be in the West. I never hear Russian scientists and doctors coming out with things like 'impending doom' (CDC director), 'masks and social distancing for years (Dr Mary Ramsay of PHE), 'masks for ever' (Professor John Edmunds of SAGE) and 'no large events for years' (Professor Tim Spector).

I never read statements like the above coming from South America, from Africa, or from anywhere else outside of the West. And we'd surely hear about it for the media love nothing more than a doomsday prediction. Dr Jay Bhattacharya said that when he was a medical student he was taught that that the most important thing a doctor can do is not to sow panic or create fear. And yet so many doctors and scientists in the West have spent over a year pushing fear and causing people to feel very distressed. And they're all in the West, as I say.

Exactly all fear driven, the latest buzz word is grim, that word has such negative connotations and there never seems to be any bit of positivity at all. Surely that can’t be best practice in these scientific/ medical fields.Seems it’s similar in U.K. then somewhere like Australia seems to be like the land of hope right now.

niallo27 · 02-04-2021 10:40AM

Boggles wrote: »

Mortality is not even the sole metric in this current phase of the pandemic, how people think it will be into the future is quite bizarre.

The vast majority of people who died never got near an ICU bed.

Go out in the sun, forget about this place. Take a break.

Boggles · 02-04-2021 10:42AM

niallo27 wrote: »

Go out in the sun, forget about this place. Take a break.

Might get some cider.

Klonker · 02-04-2021 10:43AM

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

The problem is in your own post. If you, and everyone else, had followed them 100% of the time, then we wouldn't have got stuck. And lives would have been saved.

You don't even know what rules Niall hasn't followed or isn't going to follow. Maybe he's gone over 5km for a cycle, maybe he's met a few friends in a park for a chat and kept a bit of distance, maybe he called to a friends for a drink where he or his friend have been working from home and haven't been in contact with anyone else in the past 2 weeks apart from doing the occasional food shop.

All these are breaking the rules but have next to zero chance of adding to the spread of the virus here. Most of us can use our common sense in what's safe and what's not. By your estimation he might as well be going around putting bullets in people's heads.

niallo27 · 02-04-2021 10:47AM

Boggles wrote: »

Might get some cider.

Do, get 20 bottles, sit in the sun and **** everything for the day.

gozunda · 02-04-2021 10:53AM

Klonker wrote: »

You don't even know what rules Niall hasn't followed or isn't going to follow. Maybe he's gone over 5km for a cycle, maybe he's met a few friends in a park for a chat and kept a bit of distance, maybe he called to a friends for a drink where he or his friend have been working from home and haven't been in contact with anyone else in the past 2 weeks apart from doing the occasional food shop.

All these are breaking the rules but have next to zero chance of adding to the spread of the virus here. Most of us can use our common sense in what's safe and what's not. By your estimation he might as well be going around putting bullets in people's heads.

Problem is as you probably know - is that common sense is not all that common.

But also we do seem to have a small but vocal bunch who don't even try and apply what common sense they might have been born with - who claim to go by the mantra of "fuq the restrictions" or wtte.

eggy81 · 02-04-2021 11:01AM

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

The problem is in your own post. If you, and everyone else, had followed them 100% of the time, then we wouldn't have got stuck. And lives would have been saved.

Yes we would have.

TomTomTim · 02-04-2021 11:23AM

copeyhagen wrote: »

its begun....

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/mi58a4/anyone_else_have_rising_anxiety_about_the_return/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

i knew r/Ireland had gone full pro lockdown lately (no idea why) but check that out.
"Anyone else have rising anxiety about the ‘return to normality"

Reddit is full of NEETs with social issues, who loved the lockdown, as it forced the world to be like them, so this should be of no surprise to anyone.

funnydoggy · 02-04-2021 11:27AM

Hmm I'm not sure.

I noticed r/Ireland being more "anti-lockdown" in general lately...

TomTomTim · 02-04-2021 11:28AM

One of the posts from that Reddit thread

I understand you completely. Going back to college? Fine, it would be nice to have something to do. Work? Good to earn some money. Socialising? When I started reading about England opening up, it dawned me that this truly is coming to an end soon. And I started getting legitimately depressed. I ignored it for a couple weeks and just sort of forgot about it, but then I started reading some more threads here about it all which I hadn't really been doing. Seeing everyone going on about how they're going to have the absolute best time when the pubs are back and how they can't wait to see their friends. It made me so upset that I had to ask to go home and just so I could cry. Since then I've sort of just immersed myself into covid stuff and it is sort of normalising it all for me.

A lot of it is definitely in my head. I've talked to and gotten along fine with people in work, but meeting up with a friend just fills me with intense dread inside. I had made a lot of progress on my social skills and not saying no to things but I sort of feel like I'm back at square one now. I know that I'm not going to be able to go out just as quickly as everybody else but then this will just make me feel left out and annoyed at myself that I can't do the same.

I feel like all the more normal people will be REALLY intense and really keen post-lockdown and I’m just not ready.

This is a big thing for me. I could barely handle them beforehand but I think I'll just have to avoid them at the beginning so I don't overwhelm myself. I have a friend who is similar to me so we're going to be each other's firsts which will hopefully make us more comfortable interacting with other people.

Like I've just said, Reddit is full of abnormal people.

Sobit1964 · 02-04-2021 11:31AM

TomTomTim wrote: »

One of the posts from that Reddit thread

Like I've just said, Reddit is full of abnormal people.

Wow thanks for sharing that - I had no idea how badly some people believe they need this - it explains a lot. I hope that person gets the help they need

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings