What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

murphaph · 31-03-2021 06:01PM

Danzy wrote: »

The EU vaccine authority, the British one and the US one, the last 2 being viewed as world leaders have all said it is safe.

Regional bodies and Federal States have some doubters.

Erm, the FDA hasn't approved it at all yet.

Kivaro · 31-03-2021 06:14PM

For those of you in the know, I'm curious on why the HSE are giving full first doses of Astrazenica? I thought that the efficacy was greater when they do a half dose first and then a full dose for the second one, which was discovered as a result of an error performed during the trials.

Edit: After looking at the HSE web site, this might be the reason why they are going with a full first dose (i.e. to keep people out of hospital):
"the risk of being admitted to hospital with severe COVID-19 is reduced by 94%, 4 to 5 weeks after 1 dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine"

Dr. Em · 31-03-2021 06:28PM

Kivaro wrote: »

For those of you in the know, I'm curious on why the HSE are giving full first doses of Astrazenica? I thought that the efficacy was greater when they do a half dose first and then a full dose for the second one, which was discovered as a result of an error performed during the trials.

Edit: After looking at the HSE web site, this might be the reason why they are going with a full first dose (i.e. to keep people out of hospital):
"the risk of being admitted to hospital with severe COVID-19 is reduced by 94%, 4 to 5 weeks after 1 dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine"

As far as I remember, AstraZeneca never applied for EMA approval on the basis of the 1/2 dose- full dose combination. The question was rendered moot when the UK took a gamble on stretching the time between the two doses to 12 weeks. The gamble paid off beyond all hopes when the real-world results proved that it was more effective than the clinical tests. The HSE has switched to a 12 week gap between the two doses now too.

Strazdas · 31-03-2021 06:35PM

Danzy wrote: »

Do you think it is Mossad or Mi6 behind it, or is it both?

Conspiracies are fun but don't take them seriously.

Any major news outlet in the UK who raised questions about the AZ vaccine in the context of the British rollout would be absolutely savaged for doing so. You only have to look how toxic and vitriolic the British discussion of vaccines is, wrapped up in right wing nationalism. Would any media outlet dare go there? They would be accused of being "reckless", "irresponsible" etc. If anything, the level of abuse they would get would be even worse than that aimed at the EU.

31-03-2021 06:38PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Any major news outlet in the UK who raised questions about the AZ vaccine in the context of the British rollout would be absolutely savaged for doing so. You only have to look how toxic and vitriolic the British discussion of vaccines is, wrapped up in right wing nationalism. Would any media outlet dare go there? They would be accused of being "reckless", "irresponsible" etc. If anything, the level of abuse they would get would be even worse than that aimed at the EU.

you come across as having an obsession with "Right Wing Nationalism". It's kind of like left wing McCarthyism.

murphaph · 31-03-2021 06:52PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Any major news outlet in the UK who raised questions about the AZ vaccine in the context of the British rollout would be absolutely savaged for doing so. You only have to look how toxic and vitriolic the British discussion of vaccines is, wrapped up in right wing nationalism. Would any media outlet dare go there? They would be accused of being "reckless", "irresponsible" etc. If anything, the level of abuse they would get would be even worse than that aimed at the EU.

"Enemies of the vaccine" :pac:

mick087 · 31-03-2021 06:55PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Would you trust the right wing press to publish a bad news story about AZ? Everything they have written about AZ in the last two months has been about the evil EU having it in for the company and treating them grotesquely. They're still at it even this afternoon (see Daily Mail).

Are you actually being serious you think the UK government and the opposition and all the press are in league together to cover up AZ and they all believe the EU is evil.

You do know how ridiculous that is?

Kivaro · 31-03-2021 07:35PM

Dr. Em wrote: »

As far as I remember, AstraZeneca never applied for EMA approval on the basis of the 1/2 dose- full dose combination. The question was rendered moot when the UK took a gamble on stretching the time between the two doses to 12 weeks. The gamble paid off beyond all hopes when the real-world results proved that it was more effective than the clinical tests. The HSE has switched to a 12 week gap between the two doses now too.

Thanks Dr. Em. I knew someone on here would have the scoop.
By the way I heard today from medics that the 12 week gap may not be set in stone; it may be reduced. But that may go against the proven efficacy results as stated above. It may change based on lessons that have been learned from rollouts well under way.

Wolf359f · 31-03-2021 07:38PM

murphaph wrote: »

If they mean VIPIT then the UK mortality rate from it is tiny. In Germany of the 31 cases, 9 were fatal.

I suspect these 246 cases refer perhaps to general thromboses. Also, I have no idea about that livemint website.

I have no clue exactly what the 246 events refer to. Bloomberg were reporting the same thing, but I didn't want to link to a paywall.

bilston · 31-03-2021 07:44PM

Kivaro wrote: »

Thanks Dr. Em. I knew someone on here would have the scoop.
By the way I heard today from medics that the 12 week gap may not be set in stone; it may be reduced. But that may go against the proven efficacy results as stated above. It may change based on lessons that have been learned from rollouts well under way.

Most people I know up here in NI (my mum, dad and in laws included) have a 10 week gap between jabs. 12 weeks seems to be the absolute maximum but in practice it seems to be a bit less for many.

Charles Babbage · 31-03-2021 07:49PM

murphaph wrote: »

Erm, the FDA hasn't approved it at all yet.

Is it also the case that Switzerland has not approved AZ?

Danzy · 31-03-2021 07:54PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Any major news outlet in the UK who raised questions about the AZ vaccine in the context of the British rollout would be absolutely savaged for doing so. You only have to look how toxic and vitriolic the British discussion of vaccines is, wrapped up in right wing nationalism. Would any media outlet dare go there? They would be accused of being "reckless", "irresponsible" etc. If anything, the level of abuse they would get would be even worse than that aimed at the EU.

This post is deep past any madness on an Covid denier forum. It's off the charts.

Kivaro · 31-03-2021 08:13PM

bilston wrote: »

Most people I know up here in NI (my mum, dad and in laws included) have a 10 week gap between jabs. 12 weeks seems to be the absolute maximum but in practice it seems to be a bit less for many.

Thanks bilston.
Good to know.

Strazdas · 31-03-2021 08:58PM

Danzy wrote: »

This post is deep past any madness on an Covid denier forum. It's off the charts.

The only madness I'm seeing is among the vaccine nationalists. I was reading an article about the potential use of Novavax / GSK vaccine in Britain and underneath was full of comments from unhinged Brexiteer types talking about "the EU, the EU, the EU, the EU, the EU", despite the article not mentioning the European Union even once.

mista11 · 31-03-2021 09:01PM

Strazdas wrote: »

The only madness I'm seeing is among the vaccine nationalists. I was reading an article about the potential use of Novavax / GSK vaccine in Britain and underneath was full of comments from unhinged Brexiteer types talking about "the EU, the EU, the EU, the EU, the EU", despite the article not mentioning the European Union even once.

Sounds a bit like your nemesis

Strazdas · 31-03-2021 09:46PM

mick087 wrote: »

Are you actually being serious you think the UK government and the opposition and all the press are in league together to cover up AZ and they all believe the EU is evil.

You do know how ridiculous that is?

I would say AstraZeneca has become part of the Brexit culture wars (as crazy as that sounds). If you're pro-Brexit, you are automatically pro-AZ as a company and think anyone who criticises it is politically motivated and a 'Europhile'.

Every time safety concerns are reported with AZ, it is framed as "the EU" acting purely for political reasons and getting revenge for Brexit. The idea that anyone has genuine concerns about vaccine safety is almost laughed out of it.

Danzy · 31-03-2021 09:50PM

Strazdas wrote: »

The only madness I'm seeing is among the vaccine nationalists. I was reading an article about the potential use of Novavax / GSK vaccine in Britain and underneath was full of comments from unhinged Brexiteer types talking about "the EU, the EU, the EU, the EU, the EU", despite the article not mentioning the European Union even once.

I'm putting you in to the same category as the furthest fringe of them.

RobMc59 · 31-03-2021 10:00PM

Strazdas wrote: »

I would say AstraZeneca has become part of the Brexit culture wars (as crazy as that sounds). If you're pro-Brexit, you are automatically pro-AZ as a company and think anyone who criticises it is politically motivated and a 'Europhile'.

Every time safety concerns are reported with AZ, it is framed as "the EU" acting purely for political reasons and getting revenge for Brexit. The idea that anyone has genuine concerns about vaccine safety is almost laughed out of it.

The European regulatory body has stated there is no evidence that the AZ vaccine causes clots.Do you believe the EU regulatory body is also part of this attempt to mislead people?

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210331-eu-says-no-evidence-to-restrict-astrazeneca-jab-use

Strazdas · 31-03-2021 10:55PM

Danzy wrote: »

I'm putting you in to the same category as the furthest fringe of them.

I've no issue with the AZ vaccine and would take it if offered it.

The way this has been framed in the UK is off the wall though. Any questioning of AZ's safety or efficacy is dismissed as political posturing and gamesmanship, not rooted in real concerns for people's safety. The number of times we've heard that AZ was suspended "for political reasons" is incredible.

Strazdas · 31-03-2021 11:00PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

The European regulatory body has stated there is no evidence that the AZ vaccine causes clots.Do you believe the EU regulatory body is also part of this attempt to mislead people?

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210331-eu-says-no-evidence-to-restrict-astrazeneca-jab-use

It's a bloc of 27 countries and 450m people, you're bound to have individual countries reaching different conclusions (hence things like individual countries suspending the vaccine but not others).

I haven't accused the UK media of misleading btw. My suggestion was that they might more lean towards omission of negative news stories about AZ given the febrile atmosphere surrounding vaccines.

deeperlearning · 01-04-2021 12:10AM

Very little delivered again from AstraZeneca last week:

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mick087 · 01-04-2021 07:36AM

Strazdas wrote: »

I would say AstraZeneca has become part of the Brexit culture wars (as crazy as that sounds). If you're pro-Brexit, you are automatically pro-AZ as a company and think anyone who criticises it is politically motivated and a 'Europhile'.

Every time safety concerns are reported with AZ, it is framed as "the EU" acting purely for political reasons and getting revenge for Brexit. The idea that anyone has genuine concerns about vaccine safety is almost laughed out of it.

It not only sounds crazy it is a crazy thing to be saying.

You really want to read back to what you have been suggesting hinting at.

To think not only all the UK politicians but also all the UK media are in some sort of plot together is concerning.

I don't know what literature you have been reading but you might want to lay off it fora bit.

is_that_so · 01-04-2021 07:40AM

mick087 wrote: »

It not only sounds crazy it is a crazy thing to be saying.

You really want to read back what you have been suggesting hinting at.

To think not only all the UK politicians but also all the UK media are in some sort of plot together is concerning.

I don't know what literature you have been reading but you might want to lay off it fora bit.

It's not a plot but they very much take every chance to gloat and stick it to the EU. For Boris it's a pretence that they've been doing a great job all the way through it.

murphaph · 01-04-2021 07:57AM

mick087 wrote: »

It not only sounds crazy it is a crazy thing to be saying.

You really want to read back to what you have been suggesting hinting at.

To think not only all the UK politicians but also all the UK media are in some sort of plot together is concerning.

I don't know what literature you have been reading but you might want to lay off it fora bit.

The pandemic has shades of wartime and the press obliged the British government during wartime to "keep morale up" shall we say. I can imagine that Johnson has spoken with all the editors of the major news outlets and asked them to "put the country first" or some such.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility as it has already happened in the past. Even the Guardian knows that its readership is patriotic to a certain extent. I've seen a couple of articles that I wouldn't have really "expected" to see in the Guardian.

mick087 · 01-04-2021 07:58AM

is_that_so wrote: »

It's not a plot but they very much take every chance to gloat and stick it to the EU. For Boris it's a pretence that they've been doing a great job all the way through it.

Correct there is no plot and all this nonsense about all the UK's politicians and media are in it together it absurd.

mick087 · 01-04-2021 08:02AM

murphaph wrote: »

The pandemic has shades of wartime and the press obliged the British government during wartime to "keep morale up" shall we say. I can imagine that Johnson has spoken with all the editors of the major news outlets and asked them to "put the country first" or some such.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility as it has already happened in the past. Even the Guardian knows that its readership is patriotic to a certain extent. I've seen a couple of articles that I wouldn't have really "expected" to see in the Guardian.

This is 2021 we have the internet for god sake.

Yes it is beyond the realms of possibility.

deceit · 01-04-2021 08:10AM

RobMc59 wrote: »

The European regulatory body has stated there is no evidence that the AZ vaccine causes clots.Do you believe the EU regulatory body is also part of this attempt to mislead people?

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210331-eu-says-no-evidence-to-restrict-astrazeneca-jab-use

My partner got her first dose as she works in a hospital in Germany. A day later she got a blood clot. She is young and very healthy and never had any issues before. Any reasonable person in my situation would believe the vaccine caused it?

pueblo · 01-04-2021 08:12AM

AstraZeneca vaccine has been rebranded ‘Vaxzevria’. Marketing matters.

murphaph · 01-04-2021 08:15AM

mick087 wrote: »

This is 2021 we have the internet for god sake.

Yes it is beyond the realms of possibility.

Oh you're right, the internet has indeed prevented things like fake news. I forgot about that. Thanks.

murphaph · 01-04-2021 08:16AM

pueblo wrote: »

AstraZeneca vaccine has been rebranded ‘Vaxzevria’. Marketing matters.

In fairness this was long planned and has nothing to do with their current woes. Despite the long planning they chose a name hardly anyone in Europe can seem to pronounce.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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