What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

robinph · 31-03-2021 11:40AM

murphaph wrote: »

Well we do know that the UK got 21m doses of Biontech and the first tranche was a good month before they started injecting any AZ and HCW's were vaccinated early on and they have no prioritisation for younger people in other employment sectors. I think it's very likely that the UK hasn't yet given "many" AZ vaccinations to people under 55.

We shall see what happens (trying not to sound morbid here).

Of that 21 million Pfizer doses, only about 11 million people have been given them. They were kept in hand for second doses which are currently being dished out. They are currently at just shy of 4 million 2nd doses, Astra Zeneca 2nd doses will start to become due in the next weeks in bigger number so it's mostly Pfizer so far.

The UK has given 13+ million doses to people under the age of 60 of which a few less than 7 million will be aged between 18-49.

We can be fairly certain there is more people vaccinated with Astra Zeneca under the age of 50 in the UK than the current total number vaccinated in Germany of all age groups.

Strazdas · 31-03-2021 12:01PM

robinph wrote: »

Of that 21 million Pfizer doses, only about 11 million people have been given them. They were kept in hand for second doses which are currently being dished out. They are currently at just shy of 4 million 2nd doses, Astra Zeneca 2nd doses will start to become due in the next weeks in bigger number so it's mostly Pfizer so far.

The UK has given 13+ million doses to people under the age of 60 of which a few less than 7 million will be aged between 18-49.

We can be fairly certain there is more people vaccinated with Astra Zeneca under the age of 50 in the UK than the current total number vaccinated in Germany of all age groups.

Which makes one wonder why we're not hearing more about side effects in the UK. I hope to goodness the Boris loving press aren't involved in a cover up and refusing to investigate / report any negative aspects of the AZ rollout.

noplacehere · 31-03-2021 12:02PM

Flying Fox wrote: »

I do believe women under 60 have reason to be concerned about AZ. It's not unreasonable for someone in that group to prefer literally any other approved vaccine over AZ. I don't think comments like 'get to the back of the queue then' are helpful here.

As a woman in my 30s, who is on the pill and who has lost a parent due to covid, I very much hope I won't be told it's AZ or nothing, when there's clearly a safety issue for my cohort.

I’m very high risk in my 30s and cried yesterday when my text came in. It’s AstraZeneca based on the interval between doses and honestly I couldn’t give a flying **** right now after a year of fear. I actually thought I might be nervous but once I saw the text all of that flew out the window in the flood of relief. I’ll be taking it.

I hope if it’s AstraZeneca that the same happens for you

robinph · 31-03-2021 12:10PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Which makes one wonder why we're not hearing more about side effects in the UK. I hope to goodness the Boris loving press aren't involved in a cover up and refusing to investigate / report any negative aspects of the AZ rollout.

There is plenty of non Johnson lowing press out there, and plenty of people trawling over the various data sets that are getting released just for their own entertainment and looking for patterns.

There is something weird going on with this clotting issue, but to me it's not pointing at the vaccine itself so far, just seems to be a coincidence. Cluster of cases in Norway and another bunch in Germany (not sure if they were local to each other as well), but nothing showing up elsewhere where millions more of the doses have been given out than in Norway and Germany combined. People looking for more cases elsewhere, but nothing showing up. Lots of press about the cases and nobody stepping forward in the UK saying "My mum/ sister/ daughter had this but they silenced me". If there were 30 odd cases in the UK that they were trying to brush under the carpet, one of them would have leaked by now.

31-03-2021 12:36PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Which makes one wonder why we're not hearing more about side effects in the UK. I hope to goodness the Boris loving press aren't involved in a cover up and refusing to investigate / report any negative aspects of the AZ rollout.

do you really think the Labour Welsh government, the SNP and SF/DUP in the North would also be in on some sort of cover up?

cheezums · 31-03-2021 12:47PM

it is strange the blood clotting appears to be a non issue in some countries (USA, UK) and almost an alarming issue in germany & norway (a dozen deaths or so?)

Charles Babbage · 31-03-2021 12:48PM

cheezums wrote: »

it is strange the blood clotting appears to be a non issue in some countries (USA, UK) and almost an alarming issue in germany & norway (a dozen deaths or so?)

The USA does not have the AZ vaccine.

murphaph · 31-03-2021 12:49PM

robinph wrote: »

There is plenty of non Johnson lowing press out there, and plenty of people trawling over the various data sets that are getting released just for their own entertainment and looking for patterns.

There is something weird going on with this clotting issue, but to me it's not pointing at the vaccine itself so far, just seems to be a coincidence. Cluster of cases in Norway and another bunch in Germany (not sure if they were local to each other as well), but nothing showing up elsewhere where millions more of the doses have been given out than in Norway and Germany combined. People looking for more cases elsewhere, but nothing showing up. Lots of press about the cases and nobody stepping forward in the UK saying "My mum/ sister/ daughter had this but they silenced me". If there were 30 odd cases in the UK that they were trying to brush under the carpet, one of them would have leaked by now.

It's not just Germany and Norway that noticed something though. Austria, Denmark and France have noticed something too. Perhaps more information has been shared internally between bodies that we are not yet privy to.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/03/astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-issue-wont-go-away/618451/

The German PEI and Norwegian health authority have both categorically stated that the rates they have experienced are far higher than they find in the unvaccinated population.

Perhaps the reporting/diagnosis is better than in the UK. Germany and Denmark at least appear to have far more MRI/CT capacity per capita than the UK (which surprisingly to me has fewer of these types of units than even Ireland per capita):
https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/health_glance-2017-61-en.pdf?expires=1617195628&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=623CF1A33D2E5FFE690923202F3B3E54

Strazdas · 31-03-2021 12:52PM

Aegir wrote: »

do you really think the Labour Welsh government, the SNP and SF/DUP in the North would also be in on some sort of cover up?

It's just odd that we have heard absolutely nothing about AZ side effects in the UK. Haven't 15-20m AZ doses already been administered in Britain? That's way, way higher than what has been given in Germany.

mick087 · 31-03-2021 12:54PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Which makes one wonder why we're not hearing more about side effects in the UK. I hope to goodness the Boris loving press aren't involved in a cover up and refusing to investigate / report any negative aspects of the AZ rollout.

Do you realize what your saying :pac::pac::pac: You are joking i presume?

RobMc59 · 31-03-2021 12:56PM

mick087 wrote: »

Do you realize what your saying :pac::pac::pac: You are joking i presume?

This could be a case for Mulder and Scully! :eek:

murphaph · 31-03-2021 12:59PM

Strazdas wrote: »

It's just odd that we have heard absolutely nothing about AZ side effects in the UK. Haven't 15-20m AZ doses already been administered in Britain? That's way, way higher than what has been given in Germany.

But most have gone to older people. The early vaccination of healthcare workers was likely done using mostly Biontech as it arrived first and was certified first.

It would be nice to have data from the UK showing exactly how many doses of AZ have been given to the different age strata.

deeperlearning · 31-03-2021 01:06PM

In the UK, the Pfizer vaccine was mainly distributed to large healthcare settings due to its stringent cold-chain requirements. Smaller centres such as are homes and the community GPs mainly received the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Young females who have received the vaccine are likely to be working in healthcare settings and would have mainly received the Pfizer vaccine. The older population received the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Strazdas · 31-03-2021 01:54PM

mick087 wrote: »

Do you realize what your saying :pac::pac::pac: You are joking i presume?

Would you trust the right wing press to publish a bad news story about AZ? Everything they have written about AZ in the last two months has been about the evil EU having it in for the company and treating them grotesquely. They're still at it even this afternoon (see Daily Mail).

31-03-2021 01:58PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Would you trust the right wing press to publish a bad news story about AZ? Everything they have written about AZ in the last two months has been about the evil EU having it in for the company and treating them grotesquely. They're still at it even this afternoon (see Daily Mail).

They haven’t said anything therefore there must be a cover up?

Do you really think the Guardian would miss an opportunity to stick the knife in the vaccine roll out if they could?

odyssey06 · 31-03-2021 01:59PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Would you trust the right wing press to publish a bad news story about AZ? Everything they have written about AZ in the last two months has been about the evil EU having it in for the company and treating them grotesquely. They're still at it even this afternoon (see Daily Mail).

Come off it - the Guardian, Channel 4 etc - would be all over this.

munchkin_utd · 31-03-2021 02:02PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Would you trust the right wing press to publish a bad news story about AZ? Everything they have written about AZ in the last two months has been about the evil EU having it in for the company and treating them grotesquely. They're still at it even this afternoon (see Daily Mail).

another reason for the brits to be defending AZ is that its the only vaccine they make domestically and they REALLY need the <60s to be able to take it in the coming weeks and months , with the background that the EU is prepared to give them a dose of their own medicine with export bans ensuring companies fulfil the terms of their contracts

If they get less Pfizer due to (not) export bans, and young people refuse to take the AZ vaccine, thats their prospect of herd immunity and a summer on the batter in the pubs or spins to Crete out the window

Strazdas · 31-03-2021 02:05PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Come off it - the Guardian, Channel 4 etc - would be all over this.

So there have been no serious side effects, no blood clots and no deaths in the UK as a result of 15-20m people taking AZ? That's great to hear.

odyssey06 · 31-03-2021 02:11PM

Strazdas wrote: »

So there have been no serious side effects, no blood clots and no deaths in the UK as a result of 15-20m people taking AZ? That's great to hear.

From cover-up allegations to strawman...

robinph · 31-03-2021 02:11PM

deeperlearning wrote: »

In the UK, the Pfizer vaccine was mainly distributed to large healthcare settings due to its stringent cold-chain requirements. Smaller centres such as are homes and the community GPs mainly received the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Young females who have received the vaccine are likely to be working in healthcare settings and would have mainly received the Pfizer vaccine. The older population received the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Kind of, maybe, possibly.

The small GP practice on my street was dishing out Pfizer early on but doing Astra Zeneca now to people getting first doses, the big hub I went to was dishing out Astra Zeneca the day I went but Pfizer previously. Some of the hospital staff I know, who are young and fit/ healthy and got jabbed early on got Pfizer, some of the young fit and healthy people who happened to fall into other categories either from their own health, families health, random notification to turn up and get a vaccine I know have got Astra Zeneca.

From what my social feed have been showing it was mostly if you got jabbed first in January/ very early Feb it was Pfizer, Feb/ March could be 50/50 as to which you got with no particular system, since March it's all Astra Zeneca

There has been 30 million + first doses given, only just over a third of them have been Pfizer. There are over 32 million people in the first 9 priority groups, only 12 million of those are over 60 and another 5 million age 50-59, the rest of that 32 million are anywhere from 18 upwards.

murphaph · 31-03-2021 02:15PM

munchkin_utd wrote: »

another reason for the brits to be defending AZ is that its the only vaccine they make domestically and they REALLY need the <60s to be able to take it in the coming weeks and months , with the background that the EU is prepared to give them a dose of their own medicine with export bans ensuring companies fulfil the terms of their contracts

If they get less Pfizer due to (not) export bans, and young people refuse to take the AZ vaccine, thats their prospect of herd immunity and a summer on the batter in the pubs or spins to Crete out the window

Exactly. Looks like they are "down" to 480k shots a day from highs of over 700k. More second shots than first shots for the first time yesterday too. I think supply constraints may be starting to bite in the UK too.

If there's a push back against AZ they are in big trouble, so one can see why they might be doing everything in their power to prevent that.

Strazdas · 31-03-2021 02:17PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

From cover-up allegations to strawman...

I have no problem with AstraZeneca and would take it myself. I'm merely commenting on the fact that the No.1 AZ vaccinating country appears to have no issues at all with the vaccine, whilst others, who are receiving it in much smaller quantities have (the UK has given as many AZ doses as nearly the entire EU).

31-03-2021 02:21PM

munchkin_utd wrote: »

another reason for the brits to be defending AZ is that its the only vaccine they make domestically and they REALLY need the <60s to be able to take it in the coming weeks and months , with the background that the EU is prepared to give them a dose of their own medicine with export bans ensuring companies fulfil the terms of their contracts

If they get less Pfizer due to (not) export bans, and young people refuse to take the AZ vaccine, thats their prospect of herd immunity and a summer on the batter in the pubs or spins to Crete out the window

The only vaccine apart from Novovax and Valneva.

munchkin_utd · 31-03-2021 02:33PM

Aegir wrote: »

The only vaccine apart from Novovax and Valneva.

from what I can see, the Novovax jab that the brits are loudly celebrating in the past few days is to become available in the second half of the year, so yippe, the summer is saved, if you move summer to September.

Anyhow, they'll get their pfizer jabs which looks like what the kids will need. That new Marburg plant can make about a billion jabs a year so once the EU gets sorted there'll be more than plenty supply to go round.

Dyr · 31-03-2021 03:33PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

From cover-up allegations to strawman...

and I believed anti vax conspiracy theories were banned on this forum

Danzy · 31-03-2021 05:00PM

Strazdas wrote: »

I have no problem with AstraZeneca and would take it myself. I'm merely commenting on the fact that the No.1 AZ vaccinating country appears to have no issues at all with the vaccine, whilst others, who are receiving it in much smaller quantities have (the UK has given as many AZ doses as nearly the entire EU).

The EU vaccine authority, the British one and the US one, the last 2 being viewed as world leaders have all said it is safe.

Regional bodies and Federal States have some doubters.

Danzy · 31-03-2021 05:03PM

Strazdas wrote: »

So there have been no serious side effects, no blood clots and no deaths in the UK as a result of 15-20m people taking AZ? That's great to hear.

Do you think it is Mossad or Mi6 behind it, or is it both?

Conspiracies are fun but don't take them seriously.

Wolf359f · 31-03-2021 05:08PM

Strazdas wrote: »

So there have been no serious side effects, no blood clots and no deaths in the UK as a result of 15-20m people taking AZ? That's great to hear.

Looks to be 246 of them in the UK.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemint.com/news/world/eu-review-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-risks-finds-246-adverse-events-in-uk/amp-11617208435407.html
It mentions 'such reactions', I'd assume it's the same as being reported in Germany and Norway? Wording could be a little clearer.

Dr. Em · 31-03-2021 05:33PM

murphaph wrote: »

Perhaps the reporting/diagnosis is better than in the UK. Germany and Denmark at least appear to have far more MRI/CT capacity per capita than the UK (which surprisingly to me has fewer of these types of units than even Ireland per capita):
https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/health_glance-2017-61-en.pdf?expires=1617195628&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=623CF1A33D2E5FFE690923202F3B3E54

Norway and Denmark also both have fully integrated online health records. Each patient can access a portal with their entire medical history and any gp or hospital that treats them can add to the portal. Their health regulators have an instant, searchable data mine at their fingertips.
I don't know how the NHS collects data, but if they need to have doctors or patients flag reactions - as I believe the HSE does - there will be a time lag in the data even if nothing falls between the cracks.

murphaph · 31-03-2021 06:00PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Looks to be 246 of them in the UK.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemint.com/news/world/eu-review-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-risks-finds-246-adverse-events-in-uk/amp-11617208435407.html
It mentions 'such reactions', I'd assume it's the same as being reported in Germany and Norway? Wording could be a little clearer.

If they mean VIPIT then the UK mortality rate from it is tiny. In Germany of the 31 cases, 9 were fatal.

I suspect these 246 cases refer perhaps to general thromboses. Also, I have no idea about that livemint website.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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