Dealer and BMW won't fix issue originally flagged under warranty.

Dazzy · 31-03-2021 05:27PM #1

There is an intermittent issue with the automatic fuel cap release on my car. The result is that the fuel cap won't open. I flagged this to the dealer at service time (Oct ish 2019). They said they reset it and to let them know if the issue came back.

Since then the issue has happened again but only intermittently. It's not a big deal as I very seldom need to put fuel in the car and I have done very little driving over the last year.

Fast forward to March this year. I bring the car in for a service and tell them they didn't fix the issue. At this point I am out of warranty so they won't cover the cost of the fix. They say they will request and goodwill fix from BMW and get back to me. I got a call a week later from the dealer and was told that BMW won't fix under goodwill. They gave me the number for BMW if I wanted to talk to them.

I rang BMW customer service and explained the situation. They said the decision not to give the goodwill fix was final and there is nothing else that can/will be done.

From research this is a known issue with this car.

In hindsight I should have brought it back earlier but I thougt as they were already aware of the problem and with the year we have had that they would fix it at next service.

Have to say I'm very disappointed with the outcome especially as I flagged this problem originally when under warranty. I've been brand loyal for a long time which also stings.

Is there any other avenue to try or should I just leave it at this point?

Whocare · 31-03-2021 05:43PM

That awful customer service from bmw

Seth Brundle · 31-03-2021 05:55PM

What is the car and how old is it?
What is the service history like?

Dazzy · 31-03-2021 06:09PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What is the car and how old is it?
What is the service history like?

It's a 2016 X5 X40E with a full BMW service history.

frozenfrozen · 31-03-2021 06:23PM

that's crazy that they won't fix it.

Is the issue the pin that goes into the flap is getting stuck engaged so you have to unlock and relock a few times to sort it? I had to fix that with silicone spray on an E63 6 series if that's any help to you

Dazzy · 31-03-2021 06:35PM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

that's crazy that they won't fix it.

Is the issue the pin that goes into the flap is getting stuck engaged so you have to unlock and relock a few times to sort it? I had to fix that with silicone spray on an E63 6 series if that's any help to you

It's a pressurised system. You press a button inside the car and wait for it to de-pressurise and then fuel door opens. The problem is that it does not de-pressurise fully so it won't open. The workaround it to use the manual pull cord in the boot.

Based on the research I've done it seems to be a faulty sensor.

ironclaw · 31-03-2021 06:37PM

Dazzy wrote: »

It's a pressurised system. You press a button inside the car and wait for it to de-pressurise and then fuel door opens.

That seems like overengineering to the extreme, even for the Germans.

bazz26 · 31-03-2021 06:40PM

Did the dealer disclose the fact that the issue was first flagged back in 2019, to BMW? It's possible that the dealer thought the issue was resolved after the initial fix given you didn't come back to them with it happening again and never mentioned it to BMW. In saying that, it's poor form and short sightedness imo that BMW didn't at least offer a partial or token contribution towards the cost given the car's full dealer history and customer's loyalty to the brand. A contribution no matter how small could have resulted in a fair or satisfactory resolution for the OP which would go along way to help retain their loyalty to the brand.

If that's the final word from them then I'd be inclined to write a strong letter or email to both the dealer principal and BMW Ireland about how disappointed you are with the outcome and how this will influence your next car purchase. It might not change the outcome but I'd still let them know.

mickdw · 31-03-2021 06:44PM

Personally id send them solicitors letter.
Fault was flagged within warranty. Its not like they fitted a new part at that time, just did a reset. Fault has re appeared and is a very very common issue on the phev bmw happening very early in life on the 3 series phev when it appeared.
Gather as much info as possible on it to show that its a common issue and hit them with all that.
I personally believe that the dealer has an awful lot to do with goodwill. Id say your dealer could have got that covered under warranty without any problem if they were so inclined.
I bought a new audi years back - supplying dealer refused goodwill just out of warranty. Dealer in next county that id never dealt with got 70 percent off without any hassle at all.

Dazzy · 31-03-2021 06:46PM

bazz26 wrote: »

Did the dealer disclose the fact that the issue was first flagged back in 2019, to BMW? It's possible that the dealer thought the issue was resolved after the initial fix given you didn't come back to them with it happening again and never mentioned it to BMW. In saying that, it's poor form and short sightedness imo that BMW didn't at least offer a partial or token contribution towards the cost given the car's full dealer history and customer's loyalty to the brand. A contribution no matter how small could have resulted in a fair or satisfactory resolution for the OP which would go along way to help retain their loyalty to the brand.

If that's the final word from them then I'd be inclined to write a strong letter or email to both the dealer principal and BMW Ireland about how disappointed you are with the outcome and how this will influence your next car purchase. It might not change the outcome but I'd still let them know.

Good point about the dealer not mentioning the initial fix in 2019 to BMW. I have no way of knowing unless I call BMW again and ask. I may do that.

On the call with BMW today I did mention it but they were only interested in the outcome/decision of the goodwill request, not the substance of it.

User1998 · 31-03-2021 06:49PM

ironclaw wrote: »

That seems like overengineering to the extreme, even for the Germans.

I think its the same in most phevs. Its because a lot of owners would go 6 months+ between fill ups

Toyotafanboi · 31-03-2021 10:13PM

mickdw wrote: »

Personally id send them solicitors letter.
Fault was flagged within warranty. Its not like they fitted a new part at that time, just did a reset.

Ah stop, a solicitors letter for a faulty fuel filler door on a 5 year old car? Good luck.

It's a tricky one for people, flagging something during a cars warranty period doesn't give you free reign to request things fixed for the duration of the cars life span, otherwise you just need to raise complaints about everything during the first 2 years and get free fixes forever.

Flagging something in the warranty period or having something repaired under warranty doesn't give you any added protection outside of the warranty period, particularly if we are counting in years, like we are here. It'd be different/ easier argued if there was a short period of time between either the initial repair and the next failure or between the expiry date of the warranty and the next failure, neither of which is the case here i think.

All that being said, on a premium bus like that, with a full main dealer history, it's a fairly measley not to make a goodwill gesture towards the owner IMO. At the same time, goodwill is discretionary so if they aren't willing to help you i suppose that'll help you to decide where to take your business in future.

I'd probably just get it fixed at my own cost, mark their cards and move on and consider myself lucky it doesn't need a gearbox or something.

mickdw · 31-03-2021 10:22PM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Ah stop, a solicitors letter for a faulty fuel filler door on a 5 year old car? Good luck.

It's a tricky one for people, flagging something during a cars warranty period doesn't give you free reign to request things fixed for the duration of the cars life span, otherwise you just need to raise complaints about everything during the first 2 years and get free fixes forever.

Flagging something in the warranty period or having something repaired under warranty doesn't give you any added protection outside of the warranty period, particularly if we are counting in years, like we are here. It'd be different/ easier argued if there was a short period of time between either the initial repair and the next failure or between the expiry date of the warranty and the next failure, neither of which is the case here i think.

All that being said, on a premium bus like that, with a full main dealer history, it's a fairly measley not to make a goodwill gesture towards the owner IMO. At the same time, goodwill is discretionary so if they aren't willing to help you i suppose that'll help you to decide where to take your business in future.

I'd probably just get it fixed at my own cost, mark their cards and move on and consider myself lucky it doesn't need a gearbox or something.

Ya its a faulty fuel filler door but perhaps more complex repair than on your typical car. It could be control electronics for all we know - after all they were giving trouble from 1 week old on the 330e when they came on the market so its not a case of wear and tear with these.
Bmw need to fix this. Its a known issue and they cannot be let to wash their hands of these kind of things.

Toyotafanboi · 31-03-2021 10:25PM

Agreed, it could literally be anything, we don't know.

I'd say there's better, less costly routes to success here than a solicitors letter. What are you even getting the solicitor to threaten them with?

the_pen_turner · 31-03-2021 10:43PM

i would point out that you already had this in for repair under warranty and that all repairs have to be permanant. 12months isnt permanant especially if its only been used a few times.

Toyotafanboi · 31-03-2021 10:53PM

You'll get a response from BMW along the lines of - it was repaired, nothing lasts forever, please **** off. Solicitors letter would be a pricey way to get yourself insulted IMO.

mickdw · 31-03-2021 10:55PM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Agreed, it could literally be anything, we don't know.

I'd say there's better, less costly routes to success here than a solicitors letter. What are you even getting the solicitor to threaten them with?

Id make the point re the previous repair.
I have a dealer interogate the ecu for records of the failure which may show intermittantly within the warranty period.
I compile anything i could find re the numerous failures reported online showing this is a failure thats occuring at any age, not a wear issue.
Solicitor might make the argument re sale of goods and not being of a quality expected for such an item.

Alun · 31-03-2021 10:58PM

User1998 wrote: »

I think its the same in most phevs. Its because a lot of owners would go 6 months+ between fill ups

Yes, have that system on my Kia Niro PHEV.

bmwfan · 31-03-2021 11:02PM

small claims court is great for this stuff as it falls under the sale of goods act pay for the repair lodge a case with the scc and you should get your money back
when you lodge the case highlight that the issue wasn't fixed under warranty it will cost €25 the court will send bmw ireland a letter they can accept the claim or fight it
the case will be handled in Dublin and pre covid I had a case with a 5 year old mac book pro and before i had my case I went into the court to watch the process the judge is very far and they had a mix of cases a few car ones
in the end dixons called me the day before my case and transferred what i had put the claim in for plus my €25 and asked me to withdraw the case

Gumbo · 01-04-2021 12:11AM

ironclaw wrote: »

That seems like overengineering to the extreme, even for the Germans.

It was the same on the i3 Rex.

Dazzy · 01-04-2021 02:21PM

Thanks for the replies and advice everyone. Looks like the only recourse is a legal one.

If I decide to go down that road I'll report back with the outcome.

Seth Brundle · 01-04-2021 02:29PM

How much would it be to fix?
I can't see a successful outcome to a legal action on a failed item eighteen months after it was last looked at and dealt with.
You might be better off just bringing it to a BMW specialist and paying them.

Dazzy · 01-04-2021 02:45PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

How much would it be to fix?
I can't see a successful outcome to a legal action on a failed item eighteen months after it was last looked at and dealt with.
You might be better off just bringing it to a BMW specialist and paying them.

TBH I don't know what it would cost to fix and my concern is that it could be something other than the sensor. They already said they fixed it but didn't so that doesn't make me very confident.

It's the principle of it really. I've been brand loyal for a long time, we bought a new car from them in Jan and I asked for the issue to be fixed while it was under warranty.

I've asked the dealer if they told BMW that they tried to fix it under warranty and am waiting for a reply.

frozenfrozen · 01-04-2021 03:03PM

that's not good enough at all, could you start CCing a few higher up people on the emails until someone sees how crazy that situation is.

Hellrazer · 01-04-2021 03:25PM

I flagged this to the dealer at service time (Oct ish 2019). They said they reset it and to let them know if the issue came back.

Since then the issue has happened again but only intermittently. It's not a big deal as I very seldom need to put fuel in the car and I have done very little driving over the last year.

Fast forward to March this year. I bring the car in for a service and tell them they didn't fix the issue.

So theres 17 months between when they supposedly fixed it and you bringing it in for a service and saying it not fixed.

I have to play devils advocate here and go with the dealer and BMW on this.

How did they know it wasnt fixed if you didnt return when they asked you to?
Why didnt you return when you realised the first time that it wasnt fixed.

Its one of the reasons dealers get a bad rep - none of this is the dealers or BMWs fault.

mickdw · 01-04-2021 03:52PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

So theres 17 months between when they supposedly fixed it and you bringing it in for a service and saying it not fixed.

I have to play devils advocate here and go with the dealer and BMW on this.

How did they know it wasnt fixed if you didnt return when they asked you to?
Why didnt you return when you realised the first time that it wasnt fixed.

Its one of the reasons dealers get a bad rep - none of this is the dealers or BMWs fault.

Yes it is bmws fault. Its a known fault and they are ignoring this aspect. Warranty out or not its their problem and attempting to get out of it is shoddy in the extreme.

Hellrazer · 01-04-2021 04:02PM

mickdw wrote: »

Yes it is bmws fault. Its a known fault and they are ignoring this aspect. Warranty out or not its their problem and attempting to get out of it is shoddy in the extreme.

So this begs the question - how many years warranty do you think a car should have above and beyond what is written in the documentation whether its a know issue or not?

Personally and being at the dealers side of this and having this very issue going on at the minute with a different brand I dont think it should be covered.

In my case we did a repair 2.5 years ago and Ive a customer that said it wasnt fixed - flagged it with me 2 weeks ago. I even wrote on the job card which I pulled out of the basement that we needed to know if it wasnt fixed before the vehicle warranty expired.

How am I supposed to know it wasnt fixed? As far as Im aware the issue was fixed 2.5 years ago but "apparently " it wasnt.

Manufacturer dont want to know as they also assumed it was fixed 2.5 years ago.

See where Im going with this?

If we dont know then we cant fix it.

I had a lad in December tell me he had a "lifetime" warranty on his car - yep a lifetime warranty.

mickdw · 01-04-2021 05:49PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

So this begs the question - how many years warranty do you think a car should have above and beyond what is written in the documentation whether its a know issue or not?

Personally and being at the dealers side of this and having this very issue going on at the minute with a different brand I dont think it should be covered.

In my case we did a repair 2.5 years ago and Ive a customer that said it wasnt fixed - flagged it with me 2 weeks ago. I even wrote on the job card which I pulled out of the basement that we needed to know if it wasnt fixed before the vehicle warranty expired.

How am I supposed to know it wasnt fixed? As far as Im aware the issue was fixed 2.5 years ago but "apparently " it wasnt.

Manufacturer dont want to know as they also assumed it was fixed 2.5 years ago.

See where Im going with this?

If we dont know then we cant fix it.

I had a lad in December tell me he had a "lifetime" warranty on his car - yep a lifetime warranty.

Its a known fault. Known faults will be covered well beyond warranty in many cases, generally under goodwill.
What would you say if this car has multiple records of this malfunction stored onboard from within warranty period happening intermittantly showing that while it may appear to be working, it was not in fact fixed satisfactorily at all.
Known wear points or faulty design should be covered well beyong the warranty period. Legal pressure will gain a repair in such situations up to 6 years.
Ive argued against this point here in the past when someone was quoting sale of goods etc but ive sense found that in the right situation, 6 years can very easily be made stick - where the problem can be shown to be a common defect and not down to user wear and tear, its very much a runner.

pale rider · 01-04-2021 06:47PM

Was a loyal bmw 5 series driver, had three in a row, and wife had 5 Mini’s in a row ...issues as described topping out with a new timing chain on a one owner Mini petrol with 66kms paid at my cost thought me a lesson.

Have an E Class now ( my third ) and wife is in a CLA.( her second )

Get it fixed, have it serviced at an independent specialist from now on and stuff them whenever you change.

Goodwill flows two ways.

Theboinkmaster · 01-04-2021 08:28PM

bmwfan wrote: »

small claims court is great for this stuff as it falls under the sale of goods act pay for the repair lodge a case with the scc and you should get your money back
when you lodge the case highlight that the issue wasn't fixed under warranty it will cost €25 the court will send bmw ireland a letter they can accept the claim or fight it
the case will be handled in Dublin and pre covid I had a case with a 5 year old mac book pro and before i had my case I went into the court to watch the process the judge is very far and they had a mix of cases a few car ones
in the end dixons called me the day before my case and transferred what i had put the claim in for plus my €25 and asked me to withdraw the case

This is exactly what I would do. I’ve used small claims court loads and it’s the quickest and cheapest way to resolve these types of issues.

Can do it online, only takes 10mins

mickdw · 01-04-2021 08:47PM

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

This is exactly what I would do. I’ve used small claims court loads and it’s the quickest and cheapest way to resolve these types of issues.

Can do it online, only takes 10mins

Sounds like a sensible plan.
Looking again at the sale of good and services guidelines, claims can be submitted up to 6 years in ireland - a fault that is cosmetic would likely not be entertained however a fault that effects the actual use of the car should certainly be entertained.
Much of eu has only 2 year protection. Ireland has 6 year.

Dealer and BMW won't fix issue originally flagged under warranty.

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