2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1

Marius34 · 31-03-2021 04:02PM

bubblypop wrote: »

What do you mean 'apples and pears '?

comparing 2 different things..
like 2021 Dublin price vs 2001 country side price
130 sqm house vs 70 sqm house
etc...

Those numbers doesn't look realistic, if you would compare similar things

31-03-2021 04:16PM

Marius34 wrote: »

comparing 2 different things..
like 2021 Dublin price vs 2001 country side price
130 sqm house vs 70 sqm house
etc...

Those numbers doesn't look realistic, if you would compare similar things

I see what you mean, ok, in my profession someone starting out in 2000 could afford a 3 bed semi, in Dublin. It cost approx 2/3 times their starting salary.
Now, someone starting out in my profession, would need to spend 10 times their starting salary to afford a 3 bed semi in Dublin.
Does that make sense?

Claw Hammer · 31-03-2021 04:21PM

bubblypop wrote: »

I see what you mean, ok, in my profession someone starting out in 2000 could afford a 3 bed semi, in Dublin. It cost approx 2/3 times their starting salary.
Now, someone starting out in my profession, would need to spend 10 times their starting salary to afford a 3 bed semi in Dublin.
Does that make sense?

You are in the wrong job!

Yurt2 · 31-03-2021 04:23PM

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You are in the wrong job!

#learntocode

cnocbui · 31-03-2021 04:39PM

bubblypop wrote: »

You expect front line emergency workers in Dublin to live hundreds of kilometres away from work so they can afford a property?
What about those workers that are in shifts?

You're still ignoring the fact that 20 years ago a house cost 2/3 times a salary, now it costs 10 times the salary.

I still want to know if you bought a house 20 years ago when you said they were only 2-3 times your then salary? I'm guessing you didn't - why didn't you? I have already posted links to examples of public sector workers in NZ leaving Auckland because they can't afford the housing, and to a recognition in London of the same problem. I dont expect you to do anything, I'm not living your life for you. Ther are public sector workers who have upskilled, changed jobs, moved to cheaper locations. I'm not insisting anyone do anything. I'm sure Paris is awash with Gendarmes who complain of not being able to afford Paris.

It's a major/capital city thing, Dublin isn't unique, it's the norm. In that 'your an old guy out of touch and you had it so easy mate' dig you like so much - that first house I bought - I was approaching my mid 30's and had saved double my then pre-tax annual wage as a deposit and, it was still only 60% of the very cheap house I bought which was nothing like average price. To get that saved, I didn't drink, smoke, go the pub and went on one holiday in the preceding decade that involved travelling by plane. Anything else was bargain basement camping trips. or just staying at home. I taught myself to fix my and my partners really cheap SH cars because I couldn't afford to pay a garage. If anything else broke, I fixed that too.

There seems to be an astonishing amount of hostility here towards any suggestion that doesn't involve some hand of god engineering of an entire 'unfair' property market to suit their means, and even more towards anyone suggesting they made sacrifices to make things work for them when the property market was so much fairer than it is now.

Pussyhands · 31-03-2021 04:42PM

Still wondering why the ESRI came out last year and said house prices would drop by I think 12% before rising 7% this year etc.

Why would anyone sell if they're told the price is going to go back up the next year? Thus, prices don't drop.

timmyntc · 31-03-2021 04:44PM

cnocbui wrote: »

I still want to know if you bought a house 20 years ago when you said they were only 2-3 times your then salary? I'm guessing you didn't - why didn't you? I have already posted links to examples of public sector workers in NZ leaving Auckland because they can't afford the housing, and to a recognition in London of the same problem. I dont expect you to do anything, I'm not living your life for you. Ther are public sector workers who have upskilled, changed jobs, moved to cheaper locations. I'm not insisting anyone do anything. I'm sure Paris is awash with Gendarmes who complain of not being able to afford Paris.

It's a major/capital city thing, Dublin isn't unique, it's the norm. In that 'your an old guy out of touch and you had it so easy mate' dig you like so much - that first house I bought - I was approaching my mid 30's and had saved double my then pre-tax annual wage as a deposit and, it was still only 60% of the very cheap house I bought which was nothing like average price. To get that saved, I didn't drink, smoke, go the pub and went on one holiday in the preceding decade that involved travelling by plane. Anything else was bargain basement camping trips. or just staying at home. I taught myself to fix my and my partners really cheap SH cars because I couldn't afford to pay a garage. If anything else broke, I fixed that too.

There seems to be an astonishing amount of hostility here towards any suggestion that doesn't involve some hand of god engineering of an entire 'unfair' property market to suit their means, and even more towards anyone suggesting they made sacrifices to make things work for them when the property market was so much fairer than it is now.

How can a capital city function without most of those workers?
Cities need gardai, nurses, teachers - but yet these people dont get paid enough to afford to live in the cities. Its a bit perverse

jill_valentine · 31-03-2021 04:53PM

cnocbui wrote: »

That's the kitchen I started with when I bought my current house. At the time, banks would lend for the house and the cost of rennovation. Most people don't want the work involved, and that's their real objection. Have you personally applied for a loan for something that's a bit run-down, but livable in and which you could move in and fix up? Did the bank reject your application?

Datadude can give you an example from the applicant point of view.

I can give you some general perspective from the business point of view though. Since you bought this house, iirc 20 years ago, internal guidelines for risk single out kitchens and bathrooms as the benchmark for a habitable house, with implications for approval and LTV, especially for an FTB.

So we don't have any idea how willing people would be to work on fixer uppers because unless they're very well off they won't get loans to buy them.

cnocbui · 31-03-2021 05:07PM

Yurt! wrote: »

You expect the nursing population to up sticks and move for your one mythical 70k one bed in Limerick in a sh*tbox part of the city, where news items would have it, a number of gun murders have taken place?

Cnoc, the sooner you get on the plane to NZ and start bringing this nonsense to Kiwis on boards.nz the better.

*Precisely zero apartments have sold for that kind of money in Limerick since probably the mid 80s.

My ex bought a two bedroom house within walking distance of Limerick city centre for €100 K in 2013. You are not in touch with the market.

I have to agree with one thing you said, though, the sooner I can get on a plane and be out of here, the better, but the property market here grinds so unbelievably slowly it's going to take a while. That apartment which was offered at €70,000 is still sale agreed and not on the price register, 5 months after I saw the listing. I'm dying to know what it actually went for.

Yurt2 · 31-03-2021 05:07PM

timmyntc wrote: »

How can a capital city function without most of those workers?
Cities need gardai, nurses, teachers - but yet these people dont get paid enough to afford to live in the cities. Its a bit perverse

Cnoc doesn't care. He's off to NZ to lecture young Kiwis about how 'that's just the way it is' and how he lived on marmite sandwiches with the electricity off to buy his first property in the bush back in ninteen dickitey eighty nine. Nothing but true grit and will. Didn't even have a dunny for the first two years.

Cnoc's the original self reliant frontiersman who never had a stroke of luck in his life. Everything he has came from the sweat of his brow and his calloused hands, and he he had to rip his dignity of the hands of 'the man' and the cruel taxman, who tried to take the bread out of his mouth.

This is facetious, but it's not a million miles away from how he thinks.

Yurt2 · 31-03-2021 05:09PM

cnocbui wrote: »

My ex bought a two bedroom house within walking distance of Limerick city centre for €100 K in 2013. You are not in touch with the market.

I have to agree with one thing you said, though, the sooner I can get on a plane and be out of here, the better, but the property market here grinds so unbelievably slowly it's going to take a while. That apartment which was offered at €70,000 is still sale agreed and not on the price register, 5 months after I saw the listing. I'm dying to know what it actually went for.

100k at the point where the market had sh*t the bed in 2013 is not 70k in 2021, and is illustrative of the fact you're talking potty.

riclad · 31-03-2021 05:12PM

There is a reason there are companys like facebook, google etc based in ireland, they need offices in the eu to serve the european market and to comply with eu data retention gdpr rules.
why would they suddenly move to another european country,
say they move to france or italy, they would still need to pay prsi, insurance
taxs vat etc
i think we will see some companys move from the uk to ireland or another country since being outside the eu means its hard to process data or deal with eu customers due the the complex gdpr regulations on customer data.
in terms of taxs ,ireland is around the average in the league of western countrys .

jill_valentine · 31-03-2021 05:13PM

cnocbui wrote: »

My ex bought a two bedroom house within walking distance of Limerick city centre for €100 K in 2013. You are not in touch with the market.

You are accusing others of not being in touch with the current market with a comparison to a property bought about a decade ago during a recession. And it was still more expensive than the benchmark you were using before!

cnocbui · 31-03-2021 05:15PM

timmyntc wrote: »

How can a capital city function without most of those workers?
Cities need gardai, nurses, teachers - but yet these people dont get paid enough to afford to live in the cities. Its a bit perverse

In most circumstances, I suspect they get a partner and become housholds. As I said, this is pretty much everywhere in the OECD - people in such jobs seem to find ways to make it work, on average, otherwise there wouldn't be any such workers in Paris, London, Dublin, Sydney, Melbourne, Wellington, Auckland, San Francisco, Vancouver, etc.

31-03-2021 05:16PM

cnocbui wrote: »

I still want to know if you bought a house 20 years ago when you said they were only 2-3 times your then salary? I'm guessing you didn't - why didn't you? I have already posted links to examples of public sector workers in NZ leaving Auckland because they can't afford the housing, and to a recognition in London of the same problem. I dont expect you to do anything, I'm not living your life for you. Ther are public sector workers who have upskilled, changed jobs, moved to cheaper locations. I'm not insisting anyone do anything. I'm sure Paris is awash with Gendarmes who complain of not being able to afford Paris.

It's a major/capital city thing, Dublin isn't unique, it's the norm. In that 'your an old guy out of touch and you had it so easy mate' dig you like so much - that first house I bought - I was approaching my mid 30's and had saved double my then pre-tax annual wage as a deposit and, it was still only 60% of the very cheap house I bought which was nothing like average price. To get that saved, I didn't drink, smoke, go the pub and went on one holiday in the preceding decade that involved travelling by plane. Anything else was bargain basement camping trips. or just staying at home. I taught myself to fix my and my partners really cheap SH cars because I couldn't afford to pay a garage. If anything else broke, I fixed that too.

There seems to be an astonishing amount of hostility here towards any suggestion that doesn't involve some hand of god engineering of an entire 'unfair' property market to suit their means, and even more towards anyone suggesting they made sacrifices to make things work for them when the property market was so much fairer than it is now.

I have bought and sold two properties that I have lived in since then.
I am well able to fix things myself and am extremely sensible with my money, thanks.
I have no problem buying in Dublin personally.
But I'm not blind to the issues that younger people have starting out now, and they do have problems. Anyone dismissing them have their head somewhere it shouldn't be!!
And unfortunately not everyone gets to choose where they work believe it or not.

Personally I would prefer that my community was full of people who work here, who have ties to the area. The local teacher, nurses, gardai, I think it's a bonus that they live in The area where they work, instead of travelling a few hundred kilometres away to sleep for a few hours, then back.

There is something seriously wrong when those people cannot afford to live in areas of the city that they work in, but the state continue to pay rent and buy property for people who do not work in those areas.

cnocbui · 31-03-2021 05:17PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

You are accusing others of not being in touch with the current market with a comparison to a property bought about a decade ago during a recession. And it was still more expensive than the benchmark you were using before!

It wasn't a f'n one bedroom apartment, it was a two bedroom house, ffs!

Yurt2 · 31-03-2021 05:20PM

cnocbui wrote: »

It wasn't a f'n one bedroom apartment, it was a two bedroom house, ffs!

In 2013, at close to the bottom of the market, in a historic recession where the banks were bleeding out and lending to more or less nobody.

Cnoc. You're out of touch.

jill_valentine · 31-03-2021 05:20PM

cnocbui wrote: »

It wasn't a f'n one bedroom apartment, it was a two bedroom house, ffs!

So you're accusing another poster of being out of touch with a comparison to a property bought about a decade ago during a recession, where your partner would have been offered a higher LTV than she would today for a one bedroom apartment.

Marius34 · 31-03-2021 05:31PM

bubblypop wrote: »

I see what you mean, ok, in my profession someone starting out in 2000 could afford a 3 bed semi, in Dublin. It cost approx 2/3 times their starting salary.
Now, someone starting out in my profession, would need to spend 10 times their starting salary to afford a 3 bed semi in Dublin.
Does that make sense?

Not really, what would the average salary in Dublin in 2000? what was the price for average semi-D? how you get this 2/3 times starting salary.
As far as I know Dublin wasn't that cheap, to get 3 bed semi with 2/3 times starting salary.

hometruths · 31-03-2021 05:33PM

fliball123 wrote: »

wow didnt know that ..thats mad if it is true as thats now going back to 100% mortgages with the buyer having no skin in the game.

easy access to cheap credit. Who’d have thought it.

1percent · 31-03-2021 05:46PM

bubblypop wrote: »

I have bought and sold two properties that I have lived in since then.
I am well able to fix things myself and am extremely sensible with my money, thanks.
I have no problem buying in Dublin personally.
But I'm not blind to the issues that younger people have starting out now, and they do have problems. Anyone dismissing them have their head somewhere it shouldn't be!!
And unfortunately not everyone gets to choose where they work believe it or not.

Personally I would prefer that my community was full of people who work here, who have ties to the area. The local teacher, nurses, gardai, I think it's a bonus that they live in The area where they work, instead of travelling a few hundred kilometres away to sleep for a few hours, then back.

There is something seriously wrong when those people cannot afford to live in areas of the city that they work in, but the state continue to pay rent and buy property for people who do not work in those areas.

I think his point is more, a nurse on €50k/year in Bomount renting in Dublin and cannot afford to buy anything in Dublin could apply for a job in the Limerick Regional Hospital on the same €50/year and afford to buy a not bad apt in Limerick. Which knowing that market a little bit is 100% fesable.

I don't think he was suggesting that they buy in Limerick and commute 2hours each way every day.

Obviously this isn't for everyone and yes the market is dysfunctional but we all have to cut our cloth to meet our measure.

Likewise anyone spending 50% of their salary on rent is a moron. Live in the best place you can afford on 25%, 30% net at a push, if that means house share so be it. A bit of hardship builds character.

hometruths · 31-03-2021 05:51PM

1percent wrote: »

I think his point is more, a nurse on €50k/year in Bomount renting in Dublin and cannot afford to buy anything in Dublin could apply for a job in the Limerick Regional Hospital on the same €50/year and afford to buy a not bad apt in Limerick. Which knowing that market a little bit is 100% fesable.

I don't think he was suggesting that they buy in Limerick and commute 2hours each way every day.

Obviously this isn't for everyone and yes the market is dysfunctional but we all have to cut our cloth to meet our measure.

Likewise anyone spending 50% of their salary on rent is a moron. Live in the best place you can afford on 25%, 30% net at a push, if that means house share so be it. A bit of hardship builds character.

But if the answer to the problem of nurses in Dublin not being able to afford to buy in Dublin is to move to Limerick to buy apartments, who is going to look after the sick people in Dublin’s hospitals?

Nurses with rich parents I guess.

Hubertj · 31-03-2021 05:56PM

schmittel wrote: »

But if the answer to the problem of nurses in Dublin not being able to afford to buy in Dublin is to move to Limerick to buy apartments, who is going to look after the sick people in Dublin’s hospitals?

Nurses with rich parents I guess.

When the market crashes and all the MNCs leave affordability won’t be a factor

hometruths · 31-03-2021 05:58PM

Hubertj wrote: »

When the market crashes and all the MNCs leave affordability won’t be a factor

True. Nurses in Dublin should sit tight a little longer.

DataDude · 31-03-2021 05:59PM

schmittel wrote: »

But if the answer to the problem of nurses in Dublin not being able to afford to buy in Dublin is to move to Limerick to buy apartments, who is going to look after the sick people in Dublin’s hospitals?

Nurses with rich parents I guess.

It'll be one of two solutions.

Either we'll see people earning €50k+ receiving HAP or even worse they'll introduce some sort of "Nursing Ireland" loan where they generously allow frontline workers in Dublin borrow up to their eye balls with 6x salary loans to thank them for all their great work they do!

hi! · 31-03-2021 06:01PM

cnocbui wrote: »

The nurse: There are somwhere around 92 job vacancies in that field in or near Limerick. Is there a salary loading for Dublin or would a nurse be paid the same for doing the same at, say, Limerick rgional?

My example of an apartment for €70 K existed in Oct and I provided the link and proof. Now it probably went for a bit more, but the gist of the property is cheaper outside of Dublin argument still stands: https://www.daft.ie/property-for-sale/limerick?salePrice_to=125000

That's the kitchen I started with when I bought my current house. At the time, banks would lend for the house and the cost of rennovation. Most people don't want the work involved, and that's their real objection. Have you personally applied for a loan for something that's a bit run-down, but livable in and which you could move in and fix up? Did the bank reject your application?

‘The Nurse’ is a Neonatal intensive care nurse. The sickest babies from the country come to Dublin. The transport team alternate from the main 3 maternity hospital. The team goes and stabilises sick babies from Donegal, Galway, Limerick etc & transport them to Dublin. They are in need of intensive and highly skilled care. We look after babies that are 23 weeks gestation. We take high risk women who are at risk of preterm delivery or babies with cardiac issues who will need transfer to Crumlin/Temple St. My skills are needed in DUBLIN ffs. It’s not as simple as you keep trying to make it out to be.
Yes nurses doctors teachers etc are needed elsewhere in the country. But a lot of the intensive treatments are in Dublin.

31-03-2021 06:03PM

1percent wrote: »

I think his point is more, a nurse on €50k/year in Bomount renting in Dublin and cannot afford to buy anything in Dublin could apply for a job in the Limerick Regional Hospital on the same €50/year and afford to buy a not bad apt in Limerick. Which knowing that market a little bit is 100% fesable.

I don't think he was suggesting that they buy in Limerick and commute 2hours each way every day.

Obviously this isn't for everyone and yes the market is dysfunctional but we all have to cut our cloth to meet our measure.

Likewise anyone spending 50% of their salary on rent is a moron. Live in the best place you can afford on 25%, 30% net at a push, if that means house share so be it. A bit of hardship builds character.

I understand what his point is, my point is I would prefer that people working in these services in dublin, live in Dublin.
Many nurse or teacher can work in limerick obviously. if they are all working in limerick, who works in Dublin? A Garda just out of templemore has no say as to where they are stationed.
These people should be able to afford a home in the areas they work, but instead we see the state pay to house people who don't work, in the city.

Calling people morons for paying the rent they have to is a terrible reflection on your character tbh.

1percent · 31-03-2021 06:03PM

schmittel wrote: »

But if the answer to the problem of nurses in Dublin not being able to afford to buy in Dublin is to move to Limerick to buy apartments, who is going to look after the sick people in Dublin’s hospitals?

Nurses with rich parents I guess.

There is a broad spectrum of people, each with their own priorities the above is a solution for the particular cohort that are single and have a priority to buy and currently rent.
There are those who can live at home and save, there are those that already own, there are those in a couple with double income.

Priorities could be lifestyle , further education, shoes, what ever your having yourself.

A 22yo in a house share will have different priorities to a 49yo with a family and their own home, we all have our race to run in this life.

31-03-2021 06:05PM

Marius34 wrote: »

Not really, what would the average salary in Dublin in 2000? what was the price for average semi-D? how you get this 2/3 times starting salary.
As far as I know Dublin wasn't that cheap, to get 3 bed semi with 2/3 times starting salary.

Starting salary in my job was approx 22,000 pounds. 3 bed semis in many parts of dublin could be bought starting 50,000 up.

hi! · 31-03-2021 06:09PM

1percent wrote: »

I think his point is more, a nurse on €50k/year in Bomount renting in Dublin and cannot afford to buy anything in Dublin could apply for a job in the Limerick Regional Hospital on the same €50/year and afford to buy a not bad apt in Limerick. Which knowing that market a little bit is 100% fesable.

I don't think he was suggesting that they buy in Limerick and commute 2hours each way every day.

Obviously this isn't for everyone and yes the market is dysfunctional but we all have to cut our cloth to meet our measure.

Likewise anyone spending 50% of their salary on rent is a moron. Live in the best place you can afford on 25%, 30% net at a push, if that means house share so be it. A bit of hardship builds character.

Yes a nurse working in Beaumont could just move to Limerick. But that nurse my have years of training and be highly skilled in looking after people with brain injuries seen as that’s where people from all over the country are transported to with brain injuries. But I guess those people can look after themselves after major brain surgery

2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

Comments

2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1