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Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

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  • #2432
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Part of me wonders whether McConkey is playing this up to keep a spotlight on himself.

    Some of the proposals are so extreme that it appears that there's some sort of confection going on.

    Germany closed the free movement border with Poland last Wednesday and it went unreported here, why is that I wonder?


  • #2433
    Akesh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭Akesh


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    I’ve had a look at mcconkeys Twitter and from I can see there no mention of what your on about.

    Post the tweets if you want to be taken seriously.

    How about do your own research before you decide whether or not you trust someone? Must be blissful swallowing whatever you read and hear without question.

    ASTaines-1080x500.jpg

    ISAGN3.png

    ISAGN1A.png


  • #2434
    Sobit1964
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Sobit1964


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    Germany closed the free movement border with Poland last Wednesday and it went unreported here, why is that I wonder?

    Because its not very interesting.


  • #2435
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    MarkY91 wrote: »
    I know someone who works in the perfume section of boots who got her vaccine today yet my 73 year old mother with underlying conditions still hasn't a clue when she will get her vaccine.

    Where's the logic here?
    If you start trying to break down pharmacy staff by "those who need to be vaccinated and those who don't", then you will slow things down by a few weeks while pharmacies compile those lists.

    Instead you just go and vaccinate the whole pharmacy. There will always be outliers like this.

    We have to remember: Do not let perfect be the enemy of good.

    A vaccination programme that only vaccinates everyone with exactly the appropriate level of priority will take many times longer to complete than one which makes a best-effort attempt to vaccinate according to broad groupings.


  • #2436
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Akesh wrote: »
    How about do your own research before you decide whether or not you trust someone? Must be blissful swallowing whatever you read and hear without question.

    ASTaines-1080x500.jpg

    Explain the context of your post.


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  • #2437
    ShyMets
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭ShyMets


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    I mixed you up with another poster that time.
    But weeks ago British government specialists were worried about two strains the South African and Brazilian strains for the very reason Staines suggests.

    A quote from the Irish times article, the Irish times being a newspaper not a science journal, Staines was writing an OP ED

    “Two of these commonly cause more severe disease”.

    ie the South African and Brazilian strains. There is actually two Brazilian strains, P1 and P2. All variants are new viruses and the vaccines were developed to fight the original. Even Boris Johnson admits now that it when not if a new strain enters the UK. Europe are in there third wave and the South African strain is a real worry there.

    Staines states that "We know there are at least three strains of the virus in circulation globally, which are relatively resistant to current vaccines. Two of these commonly cause more severe disease"

    To my knowledge there is no firm evidence to suggest the above


  • #2438
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Donnelly has published the letter he got from NPHET on Monday evening:

    https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/#2021

    Normally there's a 7-day lag, but presumably he wants to get ahead of any questions.

    I haven't read it in detail, but the long and short of it is that the Government are almost exactly aligned with the NPHET recommendation.

    NPHET's logic appears to be rooted entirely in the vaccination programme - every 4 weeks we delay opening up will reduce the number of cases that occur after we do.

    I expect the government will be slightly less cautious around the end of April and will open up faster than NPHET advise, but only barely. NPHET are projecting October - December before a full reopening of absolutely everything with no restrictions. The government will want to get in ahead of that.


  • #2439
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    Explain the context of your post.

    Allegedly:



    Members of ISAG were found out to have been spreading fear in order to get their spoke in and have some position of power. Their campaign is an agenda hiding behind the veil of "concern".


    Not sure what to believe personally, but I'm slightly leaning towards the latter.


  • #2440
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,553 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    That letter states numerous times that the effect of vaccination on transmission is unknown. It seems to be excluded entirely from their modelling. Surely, given the evidence from Israel, that's no longer accurate?

    Little typo on page 3, lists 667 in ICU lol.
    I notice the wording of x number of hospital admissions in the past 24hrs is now replaced with additional confirmed cases in hospital. Guess they couldn't use that metric when there was numerous outbreaks in hospital.


  • #2441
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    funnydoggy wrote: »

    Allegedly:



    Members of ISAG were found out to have been spreading fear in order to get their spoke in and have some position of power. Their campaign is an agenda hiding behind the veil of "concern".


    Not sure what to believe personally, but I'm slightly leaning towards the latter.

    This is what goes on both sides, you have to also question what agenda had the source of these leaks. When isag members are plonked up against someone like John McGurke it’s inevitable that they find themselves stooping to those levels.

    Watch the international segment of channel 4 news and then switch to RTE the difference is staggering RTE don’t even cover some stories, like the closer of the German polish free travel land border, why because it directly contradicts what they’ve been saying here about the north.


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  • #2442
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    seamus wrote: »
    Donnelly has published the letter he got from NPHET on Monday evening:

    https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/#2021

    Normally there's a 7-day lag, but presumably he wants to get ahead of any questions.

    I haven't read it in detail, but the long and short of it is that the Government are almost exactly aligned with the NPHET recommendation.

    NPHET's logic appears to be rooted entirely in the vaccination programme - every 4 weeks we delay opening up will reduce the number of cases that occur after we do.

    I expect the government will be slightly less cautious around the end of April and will open up faster than NPHET advise, but only barely. NPHET are projecting October - December before a full reopening of absolutely everything with no restrictions. The government will want to get in ahead of that.

    It's what I thought to be honest. Since we heard vaccines were coming last year NPHETs plan has been to stay under level 5 restrictions until we vaccinate the vulnerable, which will be then pushed out to until we vaccinate almost everybody.

    I don't even know why they bother talking about worrying case numbers when they actually don't care about them. If we had 100 cases a day coming up to yesterday's restrictions meeting do people think NPHETs advice would actually be any different. Protecting the capacity of hospitals and ICU has long gone as the reason for lockdowns. A little more honesty on this would be appreciated by the public I think.


  • #2443
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Klonker wrote: »
    It's what I thought to be honest. Since we heard vaccines were coming last year NPHETs plan has been to stay under level 5 restrictions until we vaccinate the vulnerable, which will be then pushed put to until we vaccinate almost everybody.

    I don't even know why they bother talking about worrying case numbers when they actually don't care about them. If we had 10 cases a day coming up to yesterday's restrictions meeting do people think NPHETs advice would actually be any different. Protecting the capacity of hospitals and ICU has long gone as the reason for lockdowns. A little more honesty on this would be appreciated by the public I think.

    And what is the real reason in your mind ?


  • #2444
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,467 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    seamus wrote: »
    Donnelly has published the letter he got from NPHET on Monday evening:

    https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/#2021

    Normally there's a 7-day lag, but presumably he wants to get ahead of any questions.

    I haven't read it in detail, but the long and short of it is that the Government are almost exactly aligned with the NPHET recommendation.

    NPHET's logic appears to be rooted entirely in the vaccination programme - every 4 weeks we delay opening up will reduce the number of cases that occur after we do.

    I expect the government will be slightly less cautious around the end of April and will open up faster than NPHET advise, but only barely. NPHET are projecting October - December before a full reopening of absolutely everything with no restrictions. The government will want to get in ahead of that.

    It say's full resumption of services October - December, from looking at it I think it's referencing healthcare services based on the colour coding but I could be wrong


  • #2445
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    And what is the real reason in your mind ?

    Real reason is they want to wait until all are vaccinated. This isnt to stop hospitals from becoming overfull but to save/prolong as much lives as possible at the cost to everything else. Now some will agree with that and that's fine but tell us that's why we are doing it and not that its to protect hospitals which is what we are being told now.

    Telling lies to justify that we can't reopen even after elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, saying 3.5% of cases will need hospitalisation even after that. Good luck trying to get the modelling data to back up that stat. Not even 3.5% of cases under 65 are being hospitalised now and that's before the vulnerable are vaccinated.


  • #2446
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,500 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    All variants are new viruses

    No they're not. Stop listening to Micheal Martin.


  • #2447
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Klonker wrote: »
    Real reason is they want to wait until all are vaccinated. This isnt to stop hospitals from becoming overfull but to save/prolong as much lives as possible at the cost to everything else. Now some will agree with that and that's fine but tell us that's why we are doing it and not that its to protect hospitals which is what we are being told now.

    Telling lies to justify that we can't reopen even after elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, saying 3.5% of cases will need hospitalisation even after that. Good luck trying to get the modelling data to back up that stat. Not even 3.5% of cases under 65 are being hospitalised now and that's before the vulnerable are vaccinated.

    The vaccines are up to 90% effective so at best 10% of cases will require hospitalisation even after everyone is vaccinated.
    There is no proper modelling data because of the langar holding the government has been doing for the last 15 months. The government are to blame for the situation were in not NEPHT. It deifies logic why people don’t recognise this, Rte politicians on the other hand are more than happy to let others know ale the flak.


  • #2448
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,265 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/healthandwellbeing/arid-40255286.html

    Parents have been saying this for weeks
    Kids need to be measured for shoes and shoe shops opened for them
    It could easily be done by appointment


  • #2449
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,500 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    The vaccines are up to 90% effective so at best 10% of cases will require hospitalisation even after everyone is vaccinated.

    That's assuming every single person is exposed to the virus and every single person that gets the virus is hospitalised, neither of which is realistic.


  • #2450
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    The vaccines are up to 90% effective so at best 10% of cases will require hospitalisation even after everyone is vaccinated.
    There is no proper modelling data because of the langar holding the government has been doing for the last 15 months. The government are to blame for the situation were in not NEPHT. It deifies logic why people don’t recognise this, Rte politicians on the other hand are more than happy to let others know ale the flak.

    Have you had a look at the performance of the vaccines in preventing serious illness, even when they dont prevent mild illness?

    And even then, your point is bizarre


  • #2451
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Deeper Blue wrote: »
    That's assuming every single person is exposed to the virus and every single person that gets the virus is hospitalised, neither of which is realistic.

    So what’s the point vaccinating so if that’s your logic.


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  • #2452
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Have you had a look at the performance of the vaccines in preventing serious illness, even when they dont prevent mild illness?

    And even the, your point is bizarre

    Your bizarre.


  • #2453
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    Your bizarre.

    Thats a no then I take it


  • #2454
    Champagne Sally
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭Champagne Sally


    Does anyone know the difference between controlled and uncontrolled diabetes 2? My husband regularly has readings of between 8 and 10 on his monitor and I can't work out what this means regarding the guidelines the HSE have given. If any of our knowledgeable posters can help I would be very grateful.


  • #2455
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,500 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    So what’s the point vaccinating so if that’s your logic.

    To break the chain of transmission while also protecting the people that do get it?


  • #2456
    ShyMets
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭ShyMets


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    Your bizarre.

    What a childish response


  • #2457
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Thats a no then I take it

    You’d be taking it wrong then. I replied to a one dimensional argument with a 1D answer.


  • #2458
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    The vaccines are up to 90% effective so at best 10% of cases will require hospitalisation even after everyone is vaccinated.

    You're after embarrassing yourself with that comment there now. First of all 10% of cases aren't even hospitalised now but somehow you think it'll jump to 10% after people are vaccinated :confused:

    Most studies I've seen has shown vaccines are almost 100% effective at avoiding severe disease, which would mean next to zero hospitalisations and deaths in the vaccinated population. I guess you could call this best case scenario.

    Worst case scenario is that of that 10% it says the vaccine is ineffective for, the normal percentage of this group will end up in hospital as the unvaccinated, that's still a 90% drop in hospitalisations.


  • #2459
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Champagne Sally wrote: »
    Does anyone know the difference between controlled and uncontrolled diabetes 2? My husband regularly has readings of between 8 and 10 on his monitor and I can't work out what this means regarding the guidelines the HSE have given. If any of our knowledgeable posters can help I would be very grateful.


    You could ask on the dedicated thread here.


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056196895


  • #2460
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Yes it reads that way to me too. Those are in relation to healthcare provision.

    At some stage, NPHET or if NPHET disbanded, the CMO, will have to be sidelined if we are to get our liberties back. Someone posted a press conference of Tony Holohan in 2011 doing a flu press conference. I don't want to see us banning mass gatherings in winter from now on due to flu/Covid prevalence in the community. There has to be a balance between infectious disease control and living our lives at some stgae.


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  • #2461
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    funnydoggy wrote: »

    Allegedly:



    Members of ISAG were found out to have been spreading fear in order to get their spoke in and have some position of power. Their campaign is an agenda hiding behind the veil of "concern".


    Not sure what to believe personally, but I'm slightly leaning towards the latter.

    Leaked emails have all been verified as true.


This discussion has been closed.
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