DART+ (DART Expansion)

cgcsb · 08-03-2021 12:57pm

yascaoimhin wrote: »

just reading Iarnród Éireann's 2027 Strategy and I noticed a difference in language used for the proposals for DART+. On the Maynooth Part of DART + they make specific reference to level Crossing REMOVAL, whereas on the Bray/Greystoneas Branch the only mention Level Crossing CLOSURE.

I was thinking ti would be fairly impossible to close all 4 level crossings in Sandymount without expensive engineering changes, maybe they're considering just closing them at peak hours?

DART frequency is every 10 minutes all day so closing at peak wouldn't make any difference.

I think the Closure part is simply pointing out that it's not yet decided whether they will be removed or what alternatives will be put in place. Whereas on the Maynooth line there's a plan already in place.

Sam Russell · 08-03-2021 1:00pm

yascaoimhin wrote: »

just reading Iarnród Éireann's 2027 Strategy and I noticed a difference in language used for the proposals for DART+. On the Maynooth Part of DART + they make specific reference to level Crossing REMOVAL, whereas on the Bray/Greystoneas Branch the only mention Level Crossing CLOSURE.

I was thinking ti would be fairly impossible to close all 4 level crossings in Sandymount without expensive engineering changes, maybe they're considering just closing them at peak hours?

They will close themselves. For example, my local one closes for 3 minutes for north bound and 2 minutes for south bound, so unfortunate timing would lead to 5 minute closures. If train frequency rises to 12 trains per hour (one every 5 minutes) the gates will be closed nearly all the time.

There were plans for a bridge to replace the Merrion Gates LC but that was linked to a cycleway project and local opposition caused it to be abandoned.
They missed an opportunity with the new Aviva stadium at Lansdowne Rd to have that LC closed.

LXFlyer · 08-03-2021 1:08pm

yascaoimhin wrote: »

just reading Iarnród Éireann's 2027 Strategy and I noticed a difference in language used for the proposals for DART+. On the Maynooth Part of DART + they make specific reference to level Crossing REMOVAL, whereas on the Bray/Greystoneas Branch the only mention Level Crossing CLOSURE.

I was thinking ti would be fairly impossible to close all 4 level crossings in Sandymount without expensive engineering changes, maybe they're considering just closing them at peak hours?

I wouldn't read that into it at all.

I would expect that they will propose removal - the line between GCD and Booterstown is already at maximum capacity at peak times with the extra diesel services, while retaining level crossings. If the service is to grow throughout the day they're going to have to come up with alternative options.

marno21 · 09-03-2021 12:33am

DART+ Coastal consultancy awarded to Arup

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/239822

Ireland trains · 19-03-2021 5:04pm

Cyclist.ie saying that Jim Meade has said that there will be bike capacity and bike storage on their new fleet of 750 carraiges.
https://mobile.twitter.com/cyclistie/status/1372901257606803457
Not sure how reliable the source is but 750 is a lot more than the previously stated 600 carraiges (even if thr 41 ICR coaches are included)
The tender process started nearly two years ago now and we have yet to see an order placed.

dublinman1990 · 19-03-2021 7:00pm

Oh my god. That is a massive amount of new carriages to order for the Dart network alone if what Jim Meade is saying here turns out to be true. However; I don't know if the new upcoming orders for the Enterprise service to Belfast would count as part of this new total as well. I would assume that order should come in for part of it or the Enterprise could be a separate order in order to start the hourly service. That could be lumped in with the massive order of over 600 bi-mode/hybrid carriages for Dart. IÉ have recently unveiled their infrastructure plans for their other parts of the network a little while back. These new extra carriages could go onto serve other cities outside of Dublin. Who knows what will happen next?

yascaoimhin · 19-03-2021 10:48pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Oh my god. That is a massive amount of new carriages to order for the Dart network alone

Not all new carriages are for the DART network. IE are aiming to transition the fleet to have as little emissions as possible.

Thelonious Monk · 20-03-2021 12:25pm

Does anyone here know what's happening with the Merrion gates? Are they building over/under it to handle traffic?

Sam Russell · 20-03-2021 1:00pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Does anyone here know what's happening with the Merrion gates? Are they building over/under it to handle traffic?

Currently none of those things.

There was a project a while back as part of a cycling initiative to put a bridge from Strand Road through the car park of the Merrion Hall (used to be CTT HQ) and the Merrion Church (Our Lady Queen of Peace) carpark to the Merrion Rd. The Merrion Gates would be removed with an underpass provided for pedestrians and cycles. It involved CPOs for gardens and locals losing their parking places. Irish Times did a demolition job in support of their readers and it never happened.

The use of two carparks to solve the problem was a brilliant solution, but passing under the railway would be a better solution that a bridge at it would be less visually intrusive.

Oh well, can kicked for another decade.

Thelonious Monk · 20-03-2021 1:13pm

Is it essential to have these gates gone for DART+ to operate? I just can't see how they would ever get any kind of planning permission to do anything around there, if the recent cycle lane debacle is anything to go to. Building there would surely impact the affluent residents.

Sam Russell · 20-03-2021 1:22pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Is it essential to have these gates gone for DART+ to operate? I just can't see how they would ever get any kind of planning permission to do anything around there, if the recent cycle lane debacle is anything to go to. Building there would surely impact the affluent residents.

It was not the bridge that exercised people but the cycle lanes (pardon the pun).

The complaints were all about missing parking, missing gardens.

Ireland trains · 20-03-2021 1:53pm

Irish rail will probably say that the crossing is closing and that either they put in a bridge/underpass in place and close the crossing or that they will just close the crossing. Either way the crossing is closing.
If trains are every 5 min each way at peak times thats 24 trains passing an hour. It needs to be closed.

Pete_Cavan · 20-03-2021 2:04pm

Could a mod move the posts relating to rolling stock to this thread please?

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/post/115823938

I'd also suggest talk of the Merrion Gates should be moved to here

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/post/114305435

highdef · 20-03-2021 2:04pm

Ireland trains wrote: »

Irish rail will probably say that the crossing is closing and that either they put in a bridge/underpass in place and close the crossing or that they will just close the crossing. Either way the crossing is closing.
If trains are every 5 min each way at peak times thats 24 trains passing an hour. It needs to be closed.

Can I presume that the land at the crossing is owned by Irish Rail and therefore they can have the gates closed as much as they want, especially if it's in relation to the operation of their railway?

Sam Russell · 20-03-2021 4:26pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Could a mod move the posts relating to rolling stock to this thread please?

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/post/115823938

I'd also suggest talk of the Merrion Gates should be moved to here

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/post/114305435

@ Pete_Cavan : I'll leave them here as they relate to the current discussion.

Rolling stock is important for the Dart + project, particularly if they go for bi-mode that would allow more rapid deployment in anticipation of OH wires.

Level crossing gates apply to much of the Dart + project, on the Sandymount part and the Maynooth line.

Thelonious Monk · 20-03-2021 5:19pm

Ireland trains wrote: »

Irish rail will probably say that the crossing is closing and that either they put in a bridge/underpass in place and close the crossing or that they will just close the crossing. Either way the crossing is closing.
If trains are every 5 min each way at peak times thats 24 trains passing an hour. It needs to be closed.

Can they not just kick up a fuss with Mannix Flynn etc and have it stopped? Didn't they stop the metro plans elsewhere on the southside?
I know I sound terribly cynical, but right now I can't imagine them doing something that would upset the locals.

Zebra3 · 20-03-2021 6:15pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Can they not just kick up a fuss with Mannix Flynn etc and have it stopped? Didn't they stop the metro plans elsewhere on the southside?
I know I sound terribly cynical, but right now I can't imagine them doing something that would upset the locals.

They can kick up a fuss all they want, but they've no legal route to go down (I guess).

Pete_Cavan · 21-03-2021 1:29pm

I presume that this is for investigations and surveys for DART+ on the Maynooth line, good if things are progressing in the background;

https://kfmradio.com/news/16032021-1514/road-closures-part-dart-expanision-north-kildare-announced

CatInABox · 31-03-2021 11:47am

Once again, the Dublin Inquirer asking questions that the national newspapers don't. Where other, larger, newspapers are spending their time questioning why we need this project, or why we need to close roads to do it, the Inquirer has the imagination to go out and ask why the project isn't better.

https://twitter.com/DublinInquirer/status/1377173820914728961

Have to admit, Ballyfermot is getting short shrift here. Same with the North Strand area, two areas of Dublin that are currently deprived and would benefit greatly from having a Dart station as part of these plans.

cgcsb · 31-03-2021 11:51am

Bizzar. What kind of urban commuter rail system runs through suburban areas for 6km without stopping?

1huge1 · 31-03-2021 11:51am

Looking at the map of the South Western line, I think they have a fair point regarding a station in Ballyfermot.

Peregrine · 31-03-2021 12:01pm

Public transport is supposed to be a two-way street. You're supposed to get something out of it. Starting a 3 year rail construction project in an area of the city without a station for miles is a surefire way to alienate people. It's another €16m for Kylemore and €9m for Cabra in a €400m+ project. Just build it.

cgcsb · 31-03-2021 12:38pm

Exactly there'll be stations outside the M50 on the same line in semi rural areas only 3-4 km apart while the much more densely populated Dublin 10 & 12 have no stops between Parkwest and Heuston, makes no sense. There should absolutely be a Kylemore Stop and perhaps an Islandbridge/Heuston West stop

AngryLips · 31-03-2021 12:51pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Exactly there'll be stations outside the M50 on the same line in semi rural areas only 3-4 km apart while the much more densely populated Dublin 10 & 12 have no stops between Parkwest and Heuston, makes no sense. There should absolutely be a Kylemore Stop and perhaps an Islandbridge/Heuston West stop

And a Conyngham Road stop

MJohnston · 31-03-2021 1:07pm

It smacks of snobbery or something that they’d not put a station there. As mentioned in the article, there are vast amounts of new residential units being constructed near Kylemore. I know there’s the Red Line, but the train line is already there, and the gap for the station is there, and the distances between other stations are right. It needs to happen.

Peregrine · 31-03-2021 1:09pm

Remember, most Hazelhatch services would use the Phoenix Park Tunnel and go directly to the Docklands. 10 trains an hour would take this route at peak times.

If both Kylemore and Heuston West are to be built later then for the 10 Hazelhatch-Docklands DART services, there would be a staggering 9km gap between Park West and Glasnevin.

Which is ridiculous and Irish Rail shouldn't even be leaving it up for discussion. The fact that they can't commit to saying the plan is to have a Heuston West station when questioned by a journalist a year into the design or putting it on a map when presenting to local councillors (which is when you would boast about benefits to locals) suggests that Heuston West is also still up in the air and to be decided later when it should be the essence of the design.

p_haugh · 31-03-2021 1:15pm

AngryLips wrote: »

And a Conyngham Road stop

Would it be possible to connect platform 10 at Heuston to Conyngham road via a pedestrian bridge going across the Liffey beside the tracks into the tunnel? Or is there a lack of space on the Conyngham Road side I wonder.

AngryLips · 31-03-2021 2:42pm

p_haugh wrote: »

Would it be possible to connect platform 10 at Heuston to Conyngham road via a pedestrian bridge going across the Liffey beside the tracks into the tunnel? Or is there a lack of space on the Conyngham Road side I wonder.

I think another poster previously mentioned that there is too tight a curve or not enough space. Of course, they could just cut and cover the Phoenix Park if necessary.

Qrt · 31-03-2021 4:22pm

I reckon there should be a Kilmainham Station under the Con Colbert Junction. If it’s going to be widened for quad-tracking, I don’t see why not.

Pete_Cavan · 31-03-2021 8:31pm

There should be a station immediately west of SCR serving Kilmainham, Islandbridge and Inchicore. A station at Kylemore Road has been talked about for a while and it would be disappointing if it were not included in DART+ South West.

Speaking of disappointing, weren't detalis of DART+ South West supposed to be released in Q1 2021?

DART+ (DART Expansion)

Comments