Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

Sobit1964 · 30-03-2021 08:35AM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Jesus, that looks awful. Those poor people

Forced to do it against their will :rolleyes:

30-03-2021 08:35AM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

I'm not the one advocating house arrest, closures of private business, document checks on the roads, fines for gathering in groups or undertaking peaceful demonstrations or snooping and reporting on neighbors.

But sure attempt to throw in the 'alt-right' - again - it makes you look silly.

You said alt right, not me. Bit sensitive?

Populists advocating easy answers and personalising the blame are what I am talking about.

is_that_so · 30-03-2021 08:36AM

Penfailed wrote: »

It's a 78.5 square kilometre area. Imprisoned?

It's a crude tactic to manage the movement of people. It's also a rationalisation that really doesn't work for a lot of people I'm afraid and most of that area is likely to be completely unusable to you. The imprisonment is the sense of there being places nor far outside of the zone where people can go without adding to risks.

Sobit1964 · 30-03-2021 08:37AM

Deleted User wrote: »

You said alt right, not me. Bit sensitive?

Populists advocating easy answers and personalising the blame are what I am talking about.

Dont be a silly billy - its very clear what dog whistle you are slobbering on.

Locotastic · 30-03-2021 08:40AM

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Sure.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/03/03/science.abg3055

More up to date. 50% may be on the low side even. But regardless of the number precision, whether its 46% or 53% or whatever, its r0 is significantly higher. You hardly need me to Google 'exponential' for you too at this stage.

Again, estimated or it is thought that.

Also, even IF it is more transmissible, very importantly from that article:

The increased transmissibility model does not identify a clear increase or decrease in the severity of disease associated with VOC 202012/01, finding similar odds of hospitalisation.

JRant · 30-03-2021 08:41AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seems like a large portion of the thread have the hard on for a certain type of populist authoritarian alright

"there is an easy answer to everything and its always someone else's fault - now lets makes a list of who to blame so we can easily identify them"

It's not populist to want your civil liberties back. Anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together understands we have a highly transmissible virus circulating. We also know the cohort that is mostly affected by it. Yet, here we are, a year in and there is no semblance of a plan.

Honestly Rains, is it too much to ask of the government to put an outline together of possible milestones that can lead from one level to another? I think you would agree that's the bare minimum we should be getting, regardless of anyone's position on restrictions. The vaccine program is already starting to ramp up, ICU and hospital numbers keep falling, yet we have the exact same restrictions as when we had 6,000 cases a day and 2000 in hospital.

30-03-2021 08:41AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I'm, not sure about that, I took the clippers to myself yesterday and my wife fairly quickly pointed out the longer patches on the back of my head once she got home.

Results may vary based on quality of clippers and access to mirrors.

The mistake people make is that they its believe a quick 3 min run over and job done. A small bit of care and attention is all that is needed.

Captain_Crash · 30-03-2021 08:43AM

Hellrazer wrote: »

So do the Garda work for the government or do the government work for the Garda?

This checkpoint could be located on a slip road to minimise disruption and still have the desired effect - keeping us locked down and pissing people off who are trying to get home is just making the populace get more annoyed.

He’s not entirely wrong, it’s effectively the separation of powers. The government can propose draft and enact legislation etc, but the guards themselves decide what laws to enforce.

There are plenty of laws that don’t get policed but are in the statute book. In the case of the 5km etc.... it’s something the guards themselves have chosen to enforce (not the individual guard at the checkpoint, but the big boys in suits).

lawred2 · 30-03-2021 08:46AM

11521323 wrote: »

The sneaky way they've positioned this so that they get an extra few weeks without easing anything significant is sickening.

We've been in level 5 for 3 months already and now they're going to phase in even the most modest of restrictions? What a bunch of cowardly rats.

They literally think nothing of lockdown any longer. It's their new normal and never rock the boat never make a decision Martin will do anything to avoid changing what he sees as the status quo in any significant sense.

He's a coward.

30-03-2021 08:51AM

JRant wrote: »

It's not populist to want your civil liberties back. Anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together understands we have a highly transmissible virus circulating. We also know the cohort that is mostly affected by it. Yet, here we are, a year in and there is no semblance of a plan.

Honestly Rains, is it too much to ask of the government to put an outline together of possible milestones that can lead from one level to another? I think you would agree that's the bare minimum we should be getting, regardless of anyone's position on restrictions. The vaccine program is already starting to ramp up, ICU and hospital numbers keep falling, yet we have the exact same restrictions as when we had 6,000 cases a day and 2000 in hospital.

It is populist to offer simplistic easy answers as a panacea for all ills and always look to blame the "other".

There should be a clear path out of this in the next few weeks. It would be great to have clear milestones, however milestones can become millstones in a rapidly evolving situation, so I would love to have a clear X will happen when measures A, B and C reach point Y, but I can understand the reluctance to share them even if they exist

ypres5 · 30-03-2021 08:53AM

JRant wrote: »

It's not populist to want your civil liberties back. Anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together understands we have a highly transmissible virus circulating. We also know the cohort that is mostly affected by it. Yet, here we are, a year in and there is no semblance of a plan.

Honestly Rains, is it too much to ask of the government to put an outline together of possible milestones that can lead from one level to another? I think you would agree that's the bare minimum we should be getting, regardless of anyone's position on restrictions. The vaccine program is already starting to ramp up, ICU and hospital numbers keep falling, yet we have the exact same restrictions as when we had 6,000 cases a day and 2000 in hospital.

no I guess according to raind if you want to go further than 5k from your house it puts you in the same political bracket as the grey wolves and general pinochet

shtpEdthePlum · 30-03-2021 08:54AM

lawred2 wrote: »

They literally think nothing of lockdown any longer. It's their new normal and never rock the boat never make a decision Martin will do anything to avoid changing what he sees as the status quo in any significant sense.

He's a coward.

Sure crime is somewhat down. Lockdown has been a huge success dububduba in terms of... why would he want to stop being the ruler?

Tbh how hapless and spineless he is makes me feel like he's being led up the garden path by Leo.

Leo was the one who leaked that the restrictions aren't lifting, getting Martin into trouble yesterday with journalists when he couldn't "angry indignation" his way out of questions about the confused messaging they'd been presenting. Did you see that at the launch of the rural living thing. Pathetic.

daydorunrun · 30-03-2021 08:56AM

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

What did they expect to happen at Christmas when people were effectively told they'd better get in all their enjoyment in that week because afterwards is going to be different.
They are complete morons.

Personally I saw the people in my bubble at Christmas and I've only seen them once since because we're hyper paranoid about the new strains and I'm being made go into work (in my government job, when I could feasibly wfh all the time).

Christmas turned into a situation where people went and saw as many people as possible before they were inevitably locked down again in Jan which people were expecting. It was handled badly by government who now are afraid to act properly and get the message right this time.

30-03-2021 08:57AM

ypres5 wrote: »

no I guess according to raind if you want to go further than 5k from your house it puts you in the same political bracket as the grey wolves and general pinochet

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Dont be a silly billy - its very clear what dog whistle you are slobbering on.

Way to spectacularly miss the point, while also demonstrating the knee jerk attack the messenger through deflection and attempted ridicule

Locotastic · 30-03-2021 08:59AM

daydorunrun wrote: »

Christmas turned into a situation where people went and saw as many people as possible before they were inevitably locked down again in Jan which people were expecting. It was handled badly by government who now are afraid to act properly and get the message right this time.

Yes and added to by the fact that people were locked down severely in the run up to Christmas and knew it was going to a short term lifting of restrictions. I don't think it would have been as bad if they didn't have such restrictions coming up to Christmas.

fred funk }{ · 30-03-2021 08:59AM

Michael Martin will never recover from this. He's finished.

ypres5 · 30-03-2021 08:59AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Way to spectacularly miss the point, while also demonstrating the knee jerk attack the messenger through deflection and attempted ridicule

How is it deflection? And how is it populist to want to government to give the people and businesses who've given up the best part of a year to a bit more of a plan than 'ah sure we'll see in a few weeks'

TomTomTim · 30-03-2021 09:00AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Way to spectacularly miss the point, while also demonstrating the knee jerk attack the messenger through deflection and attempted ridicule

You're literally trying to pigeonhole everyone and anyone who doesn't agree with you, into some sort of extremist box. It's the cheapest tactic in the book, so don't dare try and present yourself as some sort of reasonable observer.

JRant · 30-03-2021 09:01AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is populist to offer simplistic easy answers as a panacea for all ills and always look to blame the "other".

There should be a clear path out of this in the next few weeks. It would be great to have clear milestones, however milestones can become millstones in a rapidly evolving situation, so I would love to have a clear X will happen when measures A, B and C reach point Y, I can understand the reluctance to share them even if they exist

There are people on both sides of the debate guilty of this exact thing. Some see nothing less than total lockdown as the only way to manage this and others would like to see everything open up. The vast majority are on a spectrum somewhere between the two bit with more in common than not.

There should be a pathway out of this already. Certain objectives that can be communicated to everyone so we have an idea that those in charge actually know what they are doing. It seems vaccines are the critical path here but surely they can tie certain vaccine levels to reopening, even if the delivery dates are somewhat fluid. We kind of know now that a lot of the Q2 supply will be back loaded each month so they can work from that assumption and have contingencies built in.

I have no understanding why they wouldn't share this with us. Let's not forget, it's our lives they have put on hold so the very least they should do is communicate with us. Alas, that's been a major failing over the past 7 months or so with this current government.

Boggles · 30-03-2021 09:02AM

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Michael Martin will never recover from this. He's finished.

You mean the Keyser Soze of Irish politics?

deckie66 · 30-03-2021 09:06AM

The reality of the situation is that very little in terms of relaxation of restrictions was expected until May.

The easing of restrictions being announced today will take effect a week later than anticipated. Not a lot to ask really.

It is now clear that vaccination is the only game in town and vaccination targets will in effect be the summer reopening targets

Sharpyshoot · 30-03-2021 09:09AM

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Michael Martin will never recover from this. He's finished.

He will go into coalition with Sinn Fein. Weren’t they in the same bed before.

Vicxas · 30-03-2021 09:11AM

Cowards. Absolute cowards.

Cases have stabilised. Hospital numbers are on the decline and yet we get fed this shoestring of a lifeline and expect us to suck this up for another 6 weeks

JRant · 30-03-2021 09:11AM

deckie66 wrote: »

The reality of the situation is that very little in terms of relaxation of restrictions was expected until May.

The easing of restrictions being announced today will take effect a week later than anticipated. Not a lot to ask really.

It is now clear that vaccination is the only game in town and vaccination targets will in effect be the summer reopening targets

It's looking like late summer early autumn before we see any real lifting of restrictions though. That's a heavy lift for a lot of people after being locked down for so long.

30-03-2021 09:11AM

TomTomTim wrote: »

You're literally trying to pigeonhole everyone and anyone who doesn't agree with you, into some sort of extremist box. It's the cheapest tactic in the book, so don't dare try and present yourself as some sort of reasonable observer.

On this element of the thread,I engaged with the individual who articulated a cogent point.
Others attempt to shift the argument by shifting the original message and turning the argument into something different.

The method is

- A makes statement X

- B replies - Look at A they said X + Y

- A replies they never said Y

- B replies - see they admit they are wrong, those A's always are

- C+D pile in with - those A's hahaha

- A goes oh FFS

That about sums up 50% of the content on these 10 threads

deckie66 · 30-03-2021 09:18AM

JRant wrote: »

It's looking like late summer early autumn before we see any real lifting of restrictions though. That's a heavy lift for a lot of people after being locked down for so long.

For indoor gatherings yes but by June you'll be having a drink or some food outdoors and by July you'll be going to certain outdoor events such as horse racing

JRant · 30-03-2021 09:21AM

deckie66 wrote: »

For indoor gatherings yes but by June you'll be having a drink or some food outdoors and by July you'll be going to certain outdoor events such as horse racing

Both of us are speculating as we really have no idea. By June/July we should be at level 1 looking to remove all restrictions a month later. Unfortunately, we will be thankful for 15 people sitting outdoors and meeting with 2 other households.

30-03-2021 09:21AM

JRant wrote: »

There are people on both sides of the debate guilty of this exact thing. Some see nothing less than total lockdown as the only way to manage this and others would like to see everything open up. The vast majority are on a spectrum somewhere between the two bit with more in common than not.

There should be a pathway out of this already. Certain objectives that can be communicated to everyone so we have an idea that those in charge actually know what they are doing. It seems vaccines are the critical path here but surely they can tie certain vaccine levels to reopening, even if the delivery dates are somewhat fluid. We kind of know now that a lot of the Q2 supply will be back loaded each month so they can work from that assumption and have contingencies built in.

I have no understanding why they wouldn't share this with us. Let's not forget, it's our lives they have put on hold so the very least they should do is communicate with us. Alas, that's been a major failing over the past 7 months or so with this current government.

What tends to happen is that allowance is not made for a rapid change in the situation. Not enough has been known about the effect of the vaccines while there is still a large amount of susceptible people out there. This data is only now starting to come through that would allow the sort of planning, with confidence,that you are talking about. For example, the clear impact of vaccines in Israel was not seen until recently when they reached 50% coverage. Up until the last couple of weeks, deaths and hospitalisations were stubbornly high, even if in those already vaccinated the improvement was obvious earlier. Now they are starting to see a massive impact.

The HorsesMouth · 30-03-2021 09:22AM

deckie66 wrote: »

For indoor gatherings yes but by June you'll be having a drink or some food outdoors and by July you'll be going to certain outdoor events such as horse racing

Indoor dining etc will be open in May in the north so it will be open June/July here

JRant · 30-03-2021 09:23AM

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

Sure crime is somewhat down. Lockdown has been a huge success dububduba in terms of... why would he want to stop being the ruler?

Tbh how hapless and spineless he is makes me feel like he's being led up the garden path by Leo.

Leo was the one who leaked that the restrictions aren't lifting, getting Martin into trouble yesterday with journalists when he couldn't "angry indignation" his way out of questions about the confused messaging they'd been presenting. Did you see that at the launch of the rural living thing. Pathetic.

Sure did see it and here's the clip

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1376547288223518722?s=08

If he thinks that question was unfair is really shows how he is used to journalists blowing smoke up his ass over the past 6 months. MM does not like to be questioned at all.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings