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Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

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Comments

  • #1382
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 939 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Contact tracing breaks down once the number of cases gets too high or the average number of close contacts is in double figures. As Reid commented you can't exponentially expand a system just because people are getting sick. What I would say is that these walk-ins look like an effort to add more tools and it's far better to identify cases than to rely on contact tracing.

    Yeah and our already inadequate effort breaks down once case numbers go beyond a relatively small level. The point is once you use your blunt instrument (lockdown), to get cases to a certain level you then should have the more refined resources (tracing and testing) available to maintain or even reduce the level of cases further, our current system (a full year in) doesn't do that and isn't resourced or nuanced enough to do that.

    Reid is just making excuses for a system that doesn't work well enough at low numbers and collapses once you have higher numbers, to admit that would be him admitting he hasn't done his job very well.


  • #1383
    PowerToWait
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭PowerToWait


    covidrelease wrote: »

    We will also have people crossing the border in large numbers shortly, and rightly so.

    What’s right about it? You think large numbers of unvaccinated free staters will be in for warm welcomes up North?


  • #1384
    kleiner feigling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭kleiner feigling


    Did anyone hear Anthony Staines on Newstalk this morning stating that Covid is not seasonal?.... immediately followed by Paul Moynagh stating that it is seasonal (I personally believe the latter to be true, as is the case for other coronaviruses).
    This is just one example of the misinformation and scaremongering going on.
    No wonder people have lost patience, when experts are given free reign to make sweeping statements without any data/evidence to support their assertions, and this goes unchallenged by the media.

    The idea that there is currently a surge in cases in Ireland is laughable considering deaths have declined in recent weeks, and positive tests have remained stable (though likely to increase with additional testing at the new walk-in centres).
    In any case, the positive tests rarely have anything to do with illness with so many having no symptoms or minor symptoms.
    All perspective has gone out the window.
    Speaking to healthcare workers, our hospitals have never before been so quiet, and the real epidemic will be those who fall through the net because we've shut down so many services.

    Sorry for rant!


  • #1385
    MerlinSouthDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭MerlinSouthDub


    GP referral data for Friday out - consistent with the general pattern for last week, it looks to have stabilised after a jump up and possibly starting to go down again gradually.

    https://tomorrowscare.ie/covid/2021-03-29_COVID_GP_Survey_Results.pdf


  • #1386
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kleiner feigling wrote: »
    Did anyone hear Anthony Staines on Newstalk this morning stating that Covid is not seasonal?.... immediately followed by Paul Moynagh stating that it is seasonal (I personally believe the latter to be true, as is the case for other coronaviruses).
    This is just one example of the misinformation and scaremongering going on.
    No wonder people have lost patience, when experts are given free reign to make sweeping statements without any data/evidence to support their assertions, and this goes unchallenged by the media.

    The idea that there is currently a surge in cases in Ireland is laughable considering deaths have declined in recent weeks, and positive tests have remained stable (though likely to increase with additional testing at the new walk-in centres).
    In any case, the positive tests rarely have anything to do with illness with so many having no symptoms or minor symptoms.
    All perspective has gone out the window.
    Speaking to healthcare workers, our hospitals have never before been so quiet, and the real epidemic will be those who fall through the net because we've shut down so many services.

    Sorry for rant!


    It is Moynagh not Staines who is making claims without evidence in this incidence. A virus is usually seasonal largely because of the level of exposure a population has had previously. That is the difference with Covid - enough people have not had previous exposure


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  • #1387
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,268 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    kleiner feigling wrote: »
    Did anyone hear Anthony Staines on Newstalk this morning stating that Covid is not seasonal?.... immediately followed by Paul Moynagh stating that it is seasonal (I personally believe the latter to be true, as is the case for other coronaviruses).
    This is just one example of the misinformation and scaremongering going on.
    No wonder people have lost patience, when experts are given free reign to make sweeping statements without any data/evidence to support their assertions, and this goes unchallenged by the media.

    The idea that there is currently a surge in cases in Ireland is laughable considering deaths have declined in recent weeks, and positive tests have remained stable (though likely to increase with additional testing at the new walk-in centres).
    In any case, the positive tests rarely have anything to do with illness with so many having no symptoms or minor symptoms.
    All perspective has gone out the window.
    Speaking to healthcare workers, our hospitals have never before been so quiet, and the real epidemic will be those who fall through the net because we've shut down so many services.

    Sorry for rant!

    We will have surge in cancer cases over the next while . Stress is a huge trigger for some cancers. Added to the missed cases due to lack of clinics and screening


  • #1388
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,789 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    We will have surge in cancer cases over the next while . Stress is a huge trigger for some cancers. Added to the missed cases due to lack of clinics and screening

    no one cares

    covid is all that matters now


  • #1389
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    We will have surge in cancer cases over the next while . Stress is a huge trigger for some cancers. Added to the missed cases due to lack of clinics and screening
    Stress alone doesn't trigger cancer to start. However, people suffering from chronic stress are known to have higher cancer incidence.

    The stress from a pandemic is unlikely to lead immediately to a huge uptick in cancer, but there might be a noticeable bump in certain cancers in the the next 10-20 years.

    The reason that people in highly stressful situations (such as the diagnosis or a death of a family member) so often seem to get their own cancer diagnosis shortly afterwards is purely a function of them getting examined more closely. They feel like absolute crap, believe it due to the stress, they go to the doctor, who sends them for tests, and they find the cancer that's been developing in the background.

    Missed diagnoses though, you're absolutely right. For many families, the end of the pandemic will be the start of a new nightmare as illnesses that were being blamed on the stress of the pandemic, don't lift.


  • #1390
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    We will have surge in cancer cases over the next while . Stress is a huge trigger for some cancers. Added to the missed cases due to lack of clinics and screening

    Yes, you’re right. I think we will end up having more secondary deaths because of the lockdowns and restrictions than we will from the virus.

    The missed cancer screenings, lack of access to elective treatments and surgeries, stress, isolation, and mental health issues will cost more lives in the long run. It’s not like any of those health issues have gone away just because we are in lockdown and many of them have been exacerbated because of it.


  • #1391
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,268 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    seamus wrote: »
    Stress alone doesn't trigger cancer to start. However, people suffering from chronic stress are known to have higher cancer incidence.

    The stress from a pandemic is unlikely to lead immediately to a huge uptick in cancer, but there might be a noticeable bump in certain cancers in the the next 10-20 years.

    The reason that people in highly stressful situations (such as the diagnosis or a death of a family member) so often seem to get their own cancer diagnosis shortly afterwards is purely a function of them getting examined more closely. They feel like absolute crap, believe it due to the stress, they go to the doctor, who sends them for tests, and they find the cancer that's been developing in the background.

    Missed diagnoses though, you're absolutely right. For many families, the end of the pandemic will be the start of a new nightmare as illnesses that were being blamed on the stress of the pandemic, don't lift.

    I dont agree with you on the trigger . It is not at all proven that stressful situations are not the trigger . I know so many diagnosed after a highly stressful situation
    This pandemic is a highly stressful situation for so many people , we cannot even begin to foresee the numbers


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  • #1392
    covidrelease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 229 ✭✭covidrelease


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    We will have surge in cancer cases over the next while . Stress is a huge trigger for some cancers. Added to the missed cases due to lack of clinics and screening

    A vast array of problems coming down the track due to this farce.

    Blocking construction is another scandal.


  • #1393
    Wombatman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    Slap on the wrist for George Lee.

    https://www.dublinlive.ie/whats-on/food-drink-news/rtenews-irishpubs-level5update-georgelee-livetv-20275718


  • #1394
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,268 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Slap on the wrist for George Lee.

    https://www.dublinlive.ie/whats-on/food-drink-news/rtenews-irishpubs-level5update-georgelee-livetv-20275718

    We heard him say it and laughed at the pure idiocy of what he was saying


  • #1395
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Yes, you’re right. I think we will end up having more secondary deaths because of the lockdowns and restrictions than we will from the virus.

    The missed cancer screenings, lack of access to elective treatments and surgeries, stress, isolation, and mental health issues will cost more lives in the long run. It’s not like any of those health issues have gone away just because we are in lockdown and many of them have been exacerbated because of it.

    We wont have to wait years to see if there is this impact.

    Annually we run at about 45k cancer diagnosis per year. If this falls considerably for 2020 it would indicate a lot of misses. We should have this data soon enough I would imagine.


  • #1396
    covidrelease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 229 ✭✭covidrelease


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Slap on the wrist for George Lee.

    https://www.dublinlive.ie/whats-on/food-drink-news/rtenews-irishpubs-level5update-georgelee-livetv-20275718

    And as usual nothing but arrogance from RTE.

    Jon Williams, managing director of RTE News, said RTE won’t make a correction.

    “Nothing to correct,” he added. “RTE reported, accurately, findings from ESRI. Yes, hospitality closed, but cafes, restaurants and some pubs open for takeaway.


  • #1397
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I dont agree with you on the trigger . It is not at all proven that stressful situations are not the trigger . I know so many diagnosed after a highly stressful situation
    It's off-topic here, but we do know there is no link between stressful events/periods and cancer.

    Cancer is the result of cumulative genetic damage/mutations, typically over decades, leading to runaway cell growth as the typical growth regulation systems have been damaged. Stressful situations do not cause cells to suddenly become cancerous.

    Stress may exacerbate an existing cancer, but it doesn't prompt one to spontaneously start.


  • #1398
    Wombatman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    We heard him say it and laughed at the pure idiocy of what he was saying

    They downgraded him to the Vladivostok brief of Environment and Science Correspondent, hoping he would fade away, and along comes a global pandemic.

    :facepalm.jpg:


  • #1399
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    OwenM wrote: »
    They have nothing to loose by retaining a full lockdown, nothing, so why would they do anything else. Asymmetrical risk.

    There not in it for the money or “prestige” as allot think.


  • #1400
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,268 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    seamus wrote: »
    It's off-topic here, but we do know there is no link between stressful events/periods and cancer.

    Cancer is the result of cumulative genetic damage/mutations, typically over decades, leading to runaway cell growth as the typical growth regulation systems have been damaged. Stressful situations do not cause cells to suddenly become cancerous.

    Stress may exacerbate an existing cancer, but it doesn't prompt one to spontaneously start.

    I know that . I never said spontaneously . I said triggers it


  • #1401
    kleiner feigling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭kleiner feigling


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It is Moynagh not Staines who is making claims without evidence in this incidence. A virus is usually seasonal largely because of the level of exposure a population has had previously. That is the difference with Covid - enough people have not had previous exposure

    I haven't heard that theory before, and my point was that neither one of them offered data to support their arguments.
    To date I've only seen evidence supporting seasonality of the disease so that is what I base my opinion on (opinion!).
    I am open to being proven wrong as I am not an expert.... so it would be helpful if the experts actually used evidence to support their arguments, or alternatively, kept stumm!


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  • #1402
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    covidrelease wrote: »
    A vast array of problems coming down the track due to this farce.
    Without wishing to downplay these in any way they'll be a whole lot easier to deal with when this is over.


  • #1403
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Not really, testing to date is dependent on people seeking out tests. These centres may offer better data on the possible effect of asymptomatics on the spread of disease. Testing like this is not practical on a national scale.

    It is in Britain, the rest of the EU and the wider western world.


  • #1404
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Contact tracing breaks down once the number of cases gets too high or the average number of close contacts is in double figures. As Reid commented you can't exponentially expand a system just because people are getting sick. What I would say is that these walk-ins look like an effort to add more tools and it's far better to identify cases than to rely on contact tracing.


    In Ireland anyway.


  • #1405
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    It is in Britain, the rest of the EU and the wider western world.
    You want to throw up a link that claims to show this? Remember though, Britain, speed of vaccinations aside, is not a good example of how to deal with a pandemic.


  • #1406
    OwenM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 860 ✭✭✭OwenM


    Cosmo Kramer wrote: »
    Exactly, it's impossible. There can be no roadmap, at least not one that people want to hear.

    The reality is that by the time we get up to speed with the current vaccination program it will be largely rendered useless anyway, as the South African variant, which is currently spreading widely around mainland Europe, will have taken over as the dominant variant in Ireland also.

    The current vaccinations only have a 10% to 30% success rate against the SA variant so are insufficient to tackle the autumn wave we're facing into. Everybody will need to be vaccinated again anyway because of it, we'll be starting over from scratch with vaccinations. It's unavoidable, and the government will know that, but probably don't want to depress people any further at the moment.

    But the reality is that we're facing into another winter of lockdown and probably well into 2022 as well, so the best advice unfortunately is probably to just try to suck it up, stop worrying about irrelevancies like 10k or 20k travel limits and make the best of whatever you have because it is unlikely there will be any significant changes for the next year or more.


    That is simply not true, one flawed trial in SA with the astrazeneca vaccine has been debunked, actually your entire post is the most childish attempt at trolling.


  • #1407
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    It's off-topic here, but we do know there is no link between stressful events/periods and cancer.

    Cancer is the result of cumulative genetic damage/mutations, typically over decades, leading to runaway cell growth as the typical growth regulation systems have been damaged. Stressful situations do not cause cells to suddenly become cancerous.

    Stress may exacerbate an existing cancer, but it doesn't prompt one to spontaneously start.

    so how does a 4 year old get cancer especially if its not genetic?

    I'm not saying in this specific case it was triggered by stress but there are various reasons cancer develops. Its not always "cumulative genetic damage/mutations, typically over decades"

    (apologies I don't want to go off topic here either)


  • #1408
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kleiner feigling wrote: »
    I haven't heard that theory before, and my point was that neither one of them offered data to support their arguments.
    To date I've only seen evidence supporting seasonality of the disease so that is what I base my opinion on (opinion!).
    I am open to being proven wrong as I am not an expert.... so it would be helpful if the experts actually used evidence to support their arguments, or alternatively, kept stumm!

    You mean SA? Brazil? Florida? The autumn European surge starting 2 months before the normal winter virus season? New surges in spring in Europe, at the end of normal winter virus season?


  • #1409
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Slap on the wrist for George Lee.

    https://www.dublinlive.ie/whats-on/food-drink-news/rtenews-irishpubs-level5update-georgelee-livetv-20275718

    He is an absolutely pathetic person


  • #1410
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,268 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    so how does a 4 year old get cancer especially if its not genetic?

    I'm not saying in this specific case it was triggered by stress but there are various reasons cancer develops. Its not always "cumulative genetic damage/mutations, typically over decades"

    (apologies I don't want to go off topic here either)

    I have looked after babies with cancer . It definitely is not cumulative in a 10 month old


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  • #1411
    PowerToWait
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭PowerToWait


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Yes, you’re right. I think we will end up having more secondary deaths because of the lockdowns and restrictions than we will from the virus.

    The lockdowns prevented many deaths from the virus. Like, people would be sick in huge numbers, the system would not be able to function correctly, the screenings would be unavailable anyway, so without lockdown you’d have a screwed HC system, hundreds dead a day and no cancer treatments or screenings. Is that what you are advocating for?


This discussion has been closed.
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