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United Ireland Poll - please vote

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,899 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    WhatYaSay wrote: »
    Yes, If a majority vote for UI, that's the part that remains to be seen.

    All I'm saying is people who have no interest in a change to the status quo are as entitled to their vote and argument as anyone else, and I really don't think that is reflected in the discussion.

    They aren't entitled to say NI doesn't affect them or that they have no responsibility. They do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    WhatYaSay wrote: »
    Yes, If a majority vote for UI, that's the part that remains to be seen.

    All I'm saying is people who have no interest in a change to the status quo are as entitled to their vote and argument as anyone else, and I really don't think that is reflected in the discussion.

    If?
    When....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,139 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    I dont believe there is any way in hell this is happening where we dont end up paying more taxes.
    Maybe there will be some money from Europe or the Uk for 10 years or so to fool us into thinking its zero sum, so we only notice after 10 years.
    Maybe there will be stealth taxes that can cover it.
    I know a lot of people up the North. The lack of NHS really scares them if there was a united Ireland. That will hit them in the pockets.
    Maybe the NHS will still cover them for a few years after the move. God help them after that though smile.png They wont know what hit them when they go to the Doctor or hospital.


    you are assuming the NHS will still exist in years to come.


    VinLieger wrote: »
    We? Im 35 i dont remember having any responsibility in the mess that NI currently is.


    you don't need to have or have had any responsibility for NI'S issues for his point to be the case.


    The whole NI - ROI hookup benefitting is economically is nonsense when you look at it really. Business wise there have been no barriers to trade or investment between NI and ROI or incentives available in ROI that weren't in NI - and they have fallen miles behind (particularly in the past 30 years).

    Why when you change the flag and the currency does NI suddenly become an economic powerhouse?


    There's a reason the costs are quite specific and the benefits kind of vague....

    If the subvention were half of what is reported you're looking at a 10% tax increase across the board in ROI (58% marginal income tax rate on everything over 35k anyone?).

    That's just to keep the lights on as they are now before you increase welfare and civil salaries to ROI levels.


    there has been a massive barrier in the form of british rule, which has prevented foreign investment and job creation in NI.
    with NI part of ireland the issues that made NI unstable in the form of the invisible border are no more so there is a willingness to invest.
    realistically your numbers in terms of tax rises and all else are speculatory with no basis apart from throwing out deliberately high numbers.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    VinLieger wrote: »
    But a UI does affect me directly and I very mu h have an interest, I don't want me or my children to pay the cost of reunification, I don't want to share a country with troglodytes like the DUP and their friends along with all the very real security issues it will bring upon us.

    What really infuriates me is people like you saying we are responsible or somehow owe them when nobody alive has ever had a choice in the matter.

    Our opinions differ.
    I think everyone has a democratic right to a say, be it DUP or FG folk. Maybe if Catholics/nationalists were treated equally it wouldn't be much of a deal.
    Did you sign off on the bank bailouts? I wasn't asked myself. I think a UI is worth the cost. Where we'll have another crash no doubt and more too big to fail bailout scenarios.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,139 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    blanch152 wrote: »
    There is a third choice - an independent Northern Ireland within the Commonwealth.

    Northern Ireland is bigger both population-wise and economically than Cyprus, Latvia, Malta and Estonia, all full members of the EU. Luxembourg is smaller by population, but is wealthier. An independent Northern Ireland, member of both the EU and the Commonwealth, would have access automatically to regional EU funding that would not be available in a united Ireland context.

    the common wealth is a dead duck, so if they could even be part of it while being part of the EU it would only ever be for symbolic reasons.
    the EU is the big trading block, and the important block they need to be a member of.
    an independant NI is not going to happen, it's reunification or reunification, as in there is only 1 choice given britain is now faultering and heading for break up.
    VinLieger wrote: »
    But a UI does affect me directly and I very mu h have an interest, I don't want me or my children to pay the cost of reunification, I don't want to share a country with troglodytes like the DUP and their friends along with all the very real security issues it will bring upon us.

    What really infuriates me is people like you saying we are responsible or somehow owe them when nobody alive has ever had a choice in the matter.


    you may not want it but it's going to happen whether you want it or not, so it will be better for you and for everyone to work out how it is going to happen, because happen it is going to, it's a question of when and not if.
    as i already suggested, a no vote in the south is not going to stop security issues if there are going to be any, in fact it is that situation that is likely to bring security issues and quite big ones, rather then a yes or no vote across both territories.
    which is why voting no in the aim of stopping potential security issues is a bad strategy.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,292 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Then Northern Ireland does affect you.

    Your government and the people of this country signed up to an internationally binding agreement.

    That is likely to come to pass. If you object to it, it is up to you to find the political representation and the majority to change that agreement.

    Otherwise it's clauses and terms will be upheld. If a majority vote for a UI it will happen. So again, Northern Ireland does affect you whether you like it or not.

    Yes, we all signed up to an international agreement where we dropped our territorial claim on the North as a sign of maturity that if the North never wants to join us, that's fine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,292 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    VinLieger wrote: »
    But a UI does affect me directly and I very mu h have an interest, I don't want me or my children to pay the cost of reunification, I don't want to share a country with troglodytes like the DUP and their friends along with all the very real security issues it will bring upon us.

    What really infuriates me is people like you saying we are responsible or somehow owe them when nobody alive has ever had a choice in the matter.

    Spot on, this is an emerging attitude in the South that matches the emergence of the Northern Irish identity up North. After 100 years, that is not surprising.

    Sure, there are some who cling on to romantic pasts and with the surge in toxic nationalist ideologies around the world, they will have got a boost, but a united Ireland, while a fine dream and hope, is not something that people really want.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,899 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Spot on, this is an emerging attitude in the South that matches the emergence of the Northern Irish identity up North. After 100 years, that is not surprising.

    Sure, there are some who cling on to romantic pasts and with the surge in toxic nationalist ideologies around the world, they will have got a boost, but a united Ireland, while a fine dream and hope, is not something that people really want.

    You need to find somebody to represent that view in the coming campaign. All party leaders are in favour of unification. Finding it hard to think of an TD who is against it. None in my border constituency.

    Then you will have to ally with those in NI who are against it. Good luck with that.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 919 ✭✭✭wicklowstevo


    87 vs 449 ?


    another election win for the richest part in the land ? lol


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,292 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You need to find somebody to represent that view in the coming campaign. All party leaders are in favour of unification. Finding it hard to think of an TD who is against it. None in my border constituency.

    Then you will have to ally with those in NI who are against it. Good luck with that.



    No TD is against a united Ireland, no Irish person is against it either, just they have different preconditions. Mine are much much higher than yours, that is all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,899 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    No TD is against a united Ireland, no Irish person is against it either, just they have different preconditions. Mine are much much higher than yours, that is all.

    Ok.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Mine are much much higher than yours, that is all.

    You want a UI as much as I want Ireland back in the UK.

    This issue isn't going away.

    Ever.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,292 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You want a UI as much as I want Ireland back in the UK.

    This issue isn't going away.

    Ever.

    Oh, I have no doubt, just look at the Greeks and their eyes on North Macedonia, just look at India/Pakistan, just look at Turkey and the Kurds, the toxic ideology of nationalism doesn't die that easily.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Oh, I have no doubt, just look at the Greeks and their eyes on North Macedonia, just look at India/Pakistan, just look at Turkey and the Kurds, the toxic ideology of nationalism doesn't die that easily.

    British Nationalism is the problem in Ireland and will continue to be until it is neutered.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Oh, I have no doubt, just look at the Greeks and their eyes on North Macedonia, just look at India/Pakistan, just look at Turkey and the Kurds, the toxic ideology of nationalism doesn't die that easily.

    Or the U.S.S.R and East Germany or the British and their claim to Northern Ireland.
    It's funny how for some people wanting a United Ireland is the toxic thing while the British with their record, presence and occupation is accepted.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,899 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I posted before about this. In the run up to a border poll there'll be plenty of amateur economists and economists with an agenda, typing furiously. We have had them here already. We have even had people posting Graham Gudgin work here as gospel. I include republican agenda's in that too.

    This is a very good piece on the inherent dangers of listening to agenda driven 'experts' slant their figures and analysis.

    http://qpol.qub.ac.uk/comparing-living-standards-north-and-south/?fbclid=IwAR0oirEOjv8Ov5FMMMuRPK-MlbIubGGXG-G5iHg_aGStr_0X7gsy_6oPtEI


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    I posted before about this. In the run up to a border poll there'll be plenty of amateur economists and economists with an agenda, typing furiously. We have had them here already. We have even had people posting Graham Gudgin work here as gospel. I include republican agenda's in that too.

    This is a very good piece on the inherent dangers of listening to agenda driven 'experts' slant their figures and analysis.

    http://qpol.qub.ac.uk/comparing-living-standards-north-and-south/?fbclid=IwAR0oirEOjv8Ov5FMMMuRPK-MlbIubGGXG-G5iHg_aGStr_0X7gsy_6oPtEI

    Posters typing furiously, the irony:)

    This poll is interesting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,139 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Posters typing furiously, the irony:)

    This poll is interesting.


    not really, the yes vote is winning all be it split between now and in 10 years.
    but either way, more people want it then dont', it doesn't matter when they want it as long as they do.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    not really, the yes vote is winning all be it split between now and in 10 years.
    but either way, more people want it then dont', it doesn't matter when they want it as long as they do.

    The yes vote is winning??????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,899 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Posters typing furiously, the irony:)

    This poll is interesting.

    What's 'interesting' about it? It's that 'interesting' I haven't even bothered to vote. I never vote in polls here...what is the point?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,139 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    The yes vote is winning??????




    yes, over 53% of people want it ultimately, some want it soon as and others want to wait a bit.
    but the majority in the pole do want it and that is the important thing.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    yes, over 53% of people want it ultimately, some want it soon as and others want to wait a bit.
    but the majority in the pole do want it and that is the important thing.

    Apologies I thought you meant yes right now.

    My mistake.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    blanch152 wrote: »
    No TD is against a united Ireland, no Irish person is against it either

    Your wrong, im against it. A UI would be a victory for people who like to force their opinions onto others and a victory for people who love living in the past. Those who want a UI are still unable to sell what the benifits of one would be, they have thrown common sense out the window and have let romantic dreams take over.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,139 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Greyfox wrote: »
    Your wrong, im against it. A UI would be a victory for people who like to force their opinions onto others and a victory for people who love living in the past. Those who want a UI are still unable to sell what the benifits of one would be, they have thrown common sense out the window and have let romantic dreams take over.


    this is all incorrect, those who want a UI are stuck in the future, stuck in modernisation, only do common sense and don't do romantic dreams but do reality.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,292 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I posted before about this. In the run up to a border poll there'll be plenty of amateur economists and economists with an agenda, typing furiously. We have had them here already. We have even had people posting Graham Gudgin work here as gospel. I include republican agenda's in that too.

    This is a very good piece on the inherent dangers of listening to agenda driven 'experts' slant their figures and analysis.

    http://qpol.qub.ac.uk/comparing-living-standards-north-and-south/?fbclid=IwAR0oirEOjv8Ov5FMMMuRPK-MlbIubGGXG-G5iHg_aGStr_0X7gsy_6oPtEI

    Interesting article, I found this the most relevant quote:

    "If a referendum is called, it will be too late to do that research and seek to discuss it in the white heat of a referendum campaign."

    I made a suggestion earlier in the thread that the best thing for a SOS to do would be to hold an indicative referendum detached from the GFA asking whether people in the North wanted to have the issue of reunification put on the table. Subject to a yes, this could be followed by a process whereby all of the questions could be answered right down to how much social welfare would be cut in the South, how many public service redundancies would take place in the North and how much income tax would increase for everyone. After that, we could have a proper GFA vote where everyone knew what would happen.

    Unfortunately, I don't think that will ever come to pass, because SF are afraid of such a vote.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,302 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I voted no.
    I am originally from northern ireland, trust me it is best left as it is!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,292 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Greyfox wrote: »
    Your wrong, im against it. A UI would be a victory for people who like to force their opinions onto others and a victory for people who love living in the past. Those who want a UI are still unable to sell what the benifits of one would be, they have thrown common sense out the window and have let romantic dreams take over.

    I have a lot of sympathy for that view. 100 years have passed and the North is a very different society than the South. Where I think this should go is that the parties that want a united Ireland should focus on reducing the difference between the two. The recent vote where SF abstained on abortion rights in the North was a big blow to any efforts to unite this island.

    A united Ireland will cost some people an awful lot of money, that much is clear. With the divergence over 100 years, everything from health to education, from taxation to social welfare is vastly different. Harmonisation comes with a cost.

    In that context, I am not surprised that young people in the South who worry about jobs, who worry about owning their own house, believe that taking on the problems of the North is a step too far.


  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,336 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    blanch152 wrote: »
    No TD is against a united Ireland, no Irish person is against it either, just they have different preconditions. Mine are much much higher than yours, that is all.
    Greyfox wrote: »
    Your wrong, im against it. A UI would be a victory for people who like to force their opinions onto others and a victory for people who love living in the past. Those who want a UI are still unable to sell what the benifits of one would be, they have thrown common sense out the window and have let romantic dreams take over.

    I'm against it too, but on economic grounds more than anything. NI is economically a basket case that requires huge propping up by the UK government. Take that away and they suffer massively unless it's replaced by a load of cash from Dublin instead. That money simply doesn't exist, so you'll end up screwing up an OK economy to prop up to at least some extent one that can't support itself. The net result will be one single economy with everybody on the island worse off. If NI can prove that they can function without the UK subvention for at least a decade, then I would be happy to reconsider my position, but as it stands I don't want to be financially worse off for something that tbh I'm indifferent about anyway. As Greyfox said, nobody has been able to clearly state any tangible benefits to a UI, and wouldn't it be great to have all Ireland living under the one flag just isn't sufficient for me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,899 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Greyfox wrote: »
    Your wrong, im against it. A UI would be a victory for people who like to force their opinions onto others and a victory for people who love living in the past. Those who want a UI are still unable to sell what the benifits of one would be, they have thrown common sense out the window and have let romantic dreams take over.

    At least you are honest. A lot more will have to be come the campaign.


    I know to some of our political class and some here it is anathema but they dishonestly pretend to be for it. Their discomfort will be fun to watch as will their discomfort being on the same side as some of the most bigoted fundamentalist suprematists these islands have seen - the DUP/TUV types.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,292 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    At least you are honest. A lot more will have to be come the campaign.


    I know to some of our political class and some here it is anathema but they dishonestly pretend to be for it. Their discomfort will be fun to watch as will their discomfort being on the same side as some of the most bigoted fundamentalist suprematists these islands have seen - the DUP/TUV types.

    Explain again to me how people who oppose a UI on cost grounds are on the same side as the DUP?


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  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,336 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    At least you are honest. A lot more will have to be come the campaign.


    I know to some of our political class and some here it is anathema but they dishonestly pretend to be for it. Their discomfort will be fun to watch as will their discomfort being on the same side as some of the most bigoted fundamentalist suprematists these islands have seen - the DUP/TUV types.

    I don't see that as an issue tbh. It is possible to oppose the same thing as the next guy but for entirely different reasons. Just because you want the same result doesn't mean that you agree with his reason for wanting it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,899 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Explain again to me how people who oppose a UI on cost grounds are on the same side as the DUP?

    Both don't want a UI. That's the same side.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,899 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Zaph wrote: »
    I don't see that as an issue tbh. It is possible to oppose the same thing as the next guy but for entirely different reasons. Just because you want the same result doesn't mean that you agree with his reason for wanting it.

    Say a Border Poll succeeds, can you imagine being the political party or TD who was against it?

    The political fallout of that would be so scary, the politicians to whom it is anathema to, will keep up the pretence in my opinion.

    That 'not wanting to be seen as an ally of bigots' will be an 'issue' IMO. You'll find it very hard to get political party support as a result.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Both don't want a UI. That's the same side.

    That's exactly how it would play out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dd973


    Reunification should be seen as an opportunity, a 6m plus population, the only Anglophone EU country, the possibility of High Speed Rail from Belfast to Dublin and Cork, proper motorway and rail links from Belfast to a Derry which will be more economically integrated with it's Donegal hinterland. It should be sold as a more enticing prospect than being 1/25th of a moribund U.K that the Scots want out of. The Scots getting independence would I believe reduce the rose tinted view of Britain that the PUL community have.

    Why would an IRA of any stripe exist post reunification either? That's one angle the DUP types never proffer when reunification is discussed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,292 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Both don't want a UI. That's the same side.

    That is an overly simplistic attitude.

    The Orange Order and the PIRA have similar attitudes to restrictions on displays of sectarianism. Does that mean they are on the same side?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,330 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    I voted no, I'm comfortable with the idea someone else is running a different part of the country to keep our Government in check.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,292 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    dd973 wrote: »
    Reunification should be seen as an opportunity, a 6m plus population, the only Anglophone EU country, the possibility of High Speed Rail from Belfast to Dublin and Cork, proper motorway and rail links from Belfast to a Derry which will be more economically integrated with it's Donegal hinterland. It should be sold as a more enticing prospect than being 1/25th of a moribund U.K that the Scots want out of. The Scots getting independence would I believe reduce the rose tinted view of Britain that the PUL community have.

    Why would an IRA of any stripe exist post reunification either? That's one angle the DUP types never proffer when reunification is discussed.

    Delusional economics never got us anywhere. You probable support the reopening of the Western Rail Corridor and advocate for a train to Donegal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,292 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Say a Border Poll succeeds, can you imagine being the political party or TD who was against it?

    The political fallout of that would be so scary, the politicians to whom it is anathema to, will keep up the pretence in my opinion.

    That 'not wanting to be seen as an ally of bigots' will be an 'issue' IMO. You'll find it very hard to get political party support as a result.

    Yes, I can imagine that. What's your point?


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  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,336 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    Say a Border Poll succeeds, can you imagine being the political party or TD who was against it?

    The political fallout of that would be so scary, the politicians to whom it is anathema to, will keep up the pretence in my opinion.

    That 'not wanting to be seen as an ally of bigots' will be an 'issue' IMO. You'll find it very hard to get political party support as a result.

    I think if it gets to the point where there's a proper reasoned debate about a poll there'll be enough politicians who will realise that in pure economic terms a UI would be massively damaging. Then there will be no option but to have a proper discussion about it, unless they want to follow the UK government's lead where they lied to the electorate about Brexit. Having seen that mess, I don't think people here will accept being asked to vote on something without having the full facts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,899 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Yes, I can imagine that. What's your point?

    There won't be a political party in the south supporting the partitionist agenda.

    Partitionists will have to depend on Peter Casey and Kevin Myers types while all the political parties will be coming up with proposals for a UI.
    It will be 'get on the train' or be left in the station time.

    No Irish political party will turn it's back on Unification. That's a big hill to die on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,292 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Zaph wrote: »
    I think if it gets to the point where there's a proper reasoned debate about a poll there'll be enough politicians who will realise that in pure economic terms a UI would be massively damaging. Then there will be no option but to have a proper discussion about it, unless they want to follow the UK government's lead where they lied to the electorate about Brexit. Having seen that mess, I don't think people here will accept being asked to vote on something without having the full facts.

    Spot on, pretty much nailed it with this post.

    Taxpayers won't want to pay extra tax.
    Social welfare recipients won't want benefits cut.

    Unless these things are worked out with the unicorns and rainbows paying for them, a border poll will be defeated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,899 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Zaph wrote: »
    I think if it gets to the point where there's a proper reasoned debate about a poll there'll be enough politicians who will realise that in pure economic terms a UI would be massively damaging. Then there will be no option but to have a proper discussion about it, unless they want to follow the UK government's lead where they lied to the electorate about Brexit. Having seen that mess, I don't think people here will accept being asked to vote on something without having the full facts.

    They won't lie, they will present it as an investment in our future. Northern Ireland as a part of an Irish state, not couched as a 'cost', in the same way as Munster or Connacht is not couched ever as a cost to us all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,217 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Zaph wrote: »
    Having seen that mess, I don't think people here will accept being asked to vote on something without having the full facts.

    But that's exactly what people would have to do. The GFA does not tell us what a UI would actually look like at all. That would all have to be worked out in the event it was voted for. At best, parties could campaign on what their vision for one would be, and those versions would differ drastically between the DUP and Sinn Fein. Other parties may do the arguably decent thing and not campaign on it at all.

    Not that it's surprising the GFA had nothing concrete about a UI as there's nothing in this regard that would have been satisfactory to all signatories.


  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Terrence Straight Salon


    dd973 wrote: »
    Reunification should be seen as an opportunity, a 6m plus population, the only Anglophone EU country, the possibility of High Speed Rail from Belfast to Dublin and Cork, proper motorway and rail links from Belfast to a Derry which will be more economically integrated with it's Donegal hinterland. It should be sold as a more enticing prospect than being 1/25th of a moribund U.K that the Scots want out of. The Scots getting independence would I believe reduce the rose tinted view of Britain that the PUL community have.

    Why would an IRA of any stripe exist post reunification either? That's one angle the DUP types never proffer when reunification is discussed.

    Absolutely. The North wouldn't be the basket case it is now.

    Many great towns and areas of England have been decimated over the decades, so what hope had a plot of land across the Irish Sea?

    As for the "We can't afford it, they're given 10 billion a year."

    1. The reason Westminster gives the north 10 billion a year is because they let it rot in the first place, much like they've left the north of England fall asunder.

    2. We wouldn't be coughing up 10 billion. Westminster and the EU would subsidise it for an agreed transition period.

    As part of a United Ireland, the North becomes infinitely more attractive to investors and becomes more 'self-sufficient'.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,899 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    briany wrote: »
    But that's exactly what people would have to do. The GFA does not tell us what a UI would actually look like at all. That would all have to be worked out in the event it was voted for. At best, parties could campaign on what their vision for one would be, and those versions would differ drastically between the DUP and Sinn Fein. Other parties may do the arguably decent thing and not campaign on it at all.

    Not that it's surprising the GFA had nothing concrete about a UI as there's nothing in this regard that would have been satisfactory to all signatories.

    The Irish government will be making the proposal in a border poll and framing the ballot 'question; whether that be a change to the constitution as the agreement to the GFA question was framed (we weren't asked about the GFA at all) or some other question.
    The Government will lead on what is proposed for a UI, they will be tasked with producing the facts and figures and changes...not political parties. Probably after a citizens assembly type process.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I feel a responsibility and I will vote for a UI. My vote is as valid as yours.
    Your selfishness does not infuriate me, it makes me sad actually. Where would you be had others not made sacrifices.

    LOL did you actually just try to compare yourself to those who fought and died for our independence?

    I would argue you're need to see a UI is also rooted in a perverse selfishness, in my opinion you and others like you just want to win the war, you don't care about the consequences for anyone involved and the ends justify the means.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    The UK is very precarious country. There is rising English and Scottish nation amongst the younger generations. This is the real elephant in the room for the UK. If Scotland leaves the UK, England will not be long behind. Where will this leave the North? Can't support themselves so would have to join the South. No such thing as a British citzen. but can you ever see those DUP supporters excepting they are Irish despite living on Ireland all their lives.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    The UK is very precarious country. There is rising English and Scottish nation amongst the younger generations. This is the real elephant in the room for the UK. If Scotland leaves the UK, England will not be long behind. Where will this leave the North? Can't support themselves so would have to join the South. No such thing as a British citzen. but can you ever see those DUP supporters excepting they are Irish despite living on Ireland all their lives.

    That be perfect solution we could buy one-way tickets, we all be one big happy Republic...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    The Irish government will be making the proposal in a border poll and framing the ballot 'question; whether that be a change to the constitution as the agreement to the GFA question was framed (we weren't asked about the GFA at all) or some other question.
    The Government will lead on what is proposed for a UI, they will be tasked with producing the facts and figures and changes...not political parties. Probably after a citizens assembly type process.

    I am sure the Irish Government there need be political reform if North come in with us, at the moment the North has 18 MPs and SF i think do not vote but this may have changed.
    If t fallows that we stay as per present numbers we have about 75 more TDs, i cannot see the Northern people standing for that.
    Interesting times ahead..


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