I've a renewal and a new application handed in a few days now. I wonder how long it will take? Very good firearms officer in my area. A gent to deal with. It there's a delay, it won't be at his end.

Brontosaurus wrote: »

Doing my first renewal and a bit confused about the process. Do I go into my local station and hand in the form, ID, photos and whatever other documents just as if it's a new application?

Firstly did you receive a pre populated firearms renewal form in the post?
(These are posted to your address (as per your original application), approximately 3 months before your exsisting license is due to expire
If not wait until it arrives, there may be a delay by a few weeks. If you haven't received the renewal in prior to the expiry of their current certifica then you need to contact your local station

From the Garda website
https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/online-services/firearms-licensing/

Each current holder of a firearm certificate (with the exception of a Firearm Training Certificate) should receive a PRE POPULATED version of the new Firearms Renewal Form (FCR) in the post approximately three months prior to the expiry of their current certificate.

All details relevant to the current firearm certificate, including the firearm, referees, G.P, land etc will be detailed on the renewal form.

Corresponding boxes will be included to facilitate any changes for example a change of referee, doctor etc. The firearm owner can fill in the changes on the renewal form, if any, and when the form is signed it shall then be returned to the local Station for consideration by the relevant Superintendent (or Chief Superintendent if a restricted firearm application).

If there are no changes, the applicant simply signs the renewal form and brings the FCR form to his/her Garda Station for processing by An Garda Síochána.

When a decision is made to grant the renewal by the Superintendent (or Chief Superintendent), the applicant will receive a Grant Notice Letter in the post (as is currently the case with a new application) and when paid will then receive his/her new three year certificate by post.

So basically follow the instructions above, make any amendments if required and return the paper work to your local station.

As an extra I inculde a current proof of gun club membership, deer licence (if applicable) etc, etc and put everything into envelope to keep it all together when I hand it into my local station.

Others lads will request a receipt from the Garda on the desk, while some stations have a drop box for all firearms related paperwork

JP22 wrote: »

New application going in over next week, fingers crossed it won't take too long.

Last one was for a sub, sorted in ten days.

UPDATE

19 days in and acknowledgement letter received today:), fingers crossed that grant letter won't take too long.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I'd suggest in future, that if your very confidential paperwork gets "lost" in those circumstances, a polite call suggesting that it is best "found" within 72 hours would be of great benefit to all concerned, as otherwise you will be forced to involve the data protection commissioner to investigate as to how your personal and extremely sensitive data on your personal, medical, security, and firearms information, as well as 3rd parties[referees], got lost between two stations.... Strange that of all the paperwork and forms being handled by AGS, firearms applications are the ones being" lost" the most often...Would think they would sort this very common complaint out a bit by now???;)

I always copy everything and take a note of the Garda's "number" at the desk.

Also, on the GDPR issue, you should be aware that the application must be available at all times i.e. if you go in and ask to see your application and they can't produce it there and then, then that is a Data Breach and must be reported to the DPO within 72 hours.

Vizzy wrote: »

I always copy everything and take a note of the Garda's "number" at the desk.

Also, on the GDPR issue, you should be aware that the application must be available at all times i.e. if you go in and ask to see your application and they can't produce it there and then, then that is a Data Breach and must be reported to the DPO within 72 hours.

There's no such rule.

Ok Happy Days
Two licences in the post today- one substitution and one renewal.

For the substitution the paper work went in end January the start of February. Acknowledgement letter issued on the 09 February and License in the post today.

The renewal went in mid January, I got acknowledgement on the 26th Jan, the Grant notice on the 01 Feb, Paid on 24 Feb, License today 03 March.

dunner515 wrote: »

Hi all,

License arrived today. I had applied for a moderator but I have no "S" on my license. Does this mean I wasn't granted it or have they done away with the "S" on the license?

No they are still on the license card.

dunner515 wrote: »

Hi all,

License arrived today. I had applied for a moderator but I have no "S" on my license. Does this mean I wasn't granted it or have they done away with the "S" on the license?

Phone or call in to the station and ask the Gardai if it was granted or not. It happened to me before that it was granted but someone forgot to push the key to type the S on the licence. Took 4 days for them to fix it.

Your example makes no sense where documents must be processed through various hands / departments.

If it was a case where the various individuals, offices or departments were copying and retaining your information, in this instance your application forms and associated paper work, then it could be construed as a breach of data protection.

But the whole process here requires your information to be forwarded through the organisation and in this case to up date records (I would hazard a guess, like certain peices of information, permanently).

If on the other hand those involved in such a process could not trace or find your documents that's a different matter.

Vizzy wrote: »

The idea of GDPR though is to get organisations to ask themselves why they are retaining information,for example, photos.Once you have submitted a photo, there should be no need to re-submit it again and again. What do they do with them ? Are they destroyed after X number of years ? If they are, fine, but do the Gardai have a policy on it and are they sticking to it.

The last bit of your post is what I am trying to highlight - if they mislay your info, then that is a Data Breach and must be reported to the Data Commissioner.
And what I was trying to explain in my previous post was that the fact that your information is not "available" is possibly a breach also.
The Regs don't mention any length of time that your records are unavailable - a week, a month ?.
This is where common sense comes in. If it is reasonable for the Gardai( or any other organisation) to take a week to locate files because of staff leave, sickness, rotas etc, the DPO will have no issue with this.
On the other hand, if you go in for a number of days and are fobbed off with "oh he'll be here tomorrow", then the Data Commissioner takes a very dim view and things go downhill very quickly.

To be honest it looks like you are making a lot of assumptions.

For example, you can't demand to see your info immediately. You can't even agree a common sense deal to see it in two or three days like you have mentioned. You have apply for it under a Subject Access Request and submit a Subject Access Request Form (F20) and the Gardai have one month to reply (or longer should there be extenuating circumstances such as the info you request being complicated to retrieve).

Source: https://www.garda.ie/en/information-centre/data-protection/
and
https://www.dataprotection.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/2019-10/FAQ%20Guide%20to%20Data%20Subject%20Access%20Requests_Oct19.pdf

Secondly, what has resubmitting a photo got to do with GDPR? You have a point about keeping old photos on file unnecessarily but certainly photos have to be updated regularly because peoples' physical appearance changes as they age. For example if you held a photo of 18 year old me beside a photo of 40something year old me, you wouldn't think it was the same person (unfortunately for me).

Agreed, the Gardai should be in trouble for mislaying or losing your info, so yes, that may be a GDPR breach.

Vizzy wrote: »

There is no MAY about it, it is a Data Breach.
Furthermore, if the Gardai want to stick to the "we have a month to reply" argument, fine. But, if it transpires that during the month that you data cant be located, then they need to make the Data Commissioner aware of it. No ifs, buts or maybe's about it. They then need to update the breach if your data turns up.
I certainly don't want my data going missing, but if it does go missing I want the Gardai to make sure that they are taking steps to find out where it went and tell me what they are doing to remedy the situation.
Gone are the days when they can tell you that they cant find it and ask you just to submit it again.

I use the word 'may' because innocent until proven guilty by the Data Commissioner 'n all that. But you are nitpicking there.

You are correct about being allowed to do a SAR verbally but it isn't advised. It still blows your 'common sense 2 or 3 day' point out of the water. It's still a month, or two months depending on the circumstances to provide you with your information. It doesn't matter if the data is one page or War and Peace, the process is the same. They still have a month (or two in some cases) to provide it. Once the two months is up, then they should notify the Data Commissioner of the breach. Or you can complain to the Data Commissioner.

I think the photo is for their records and not to identify you on the spot. I suppose if you were on the run after going mental with your firearm, they'd have a photo of you to release to other Gardai or the media.

One problem I have with the whole data protection thing is how do you prove to the Data Commissioner that you handed in a firearms application to the Gardai in the first place? What happens if the Gardai said they never had that data because you never submitted it? The Gardai don't give a receipt on the spot to say you've handed in the application. That's a flaw in the whole process.

My main point is this on licenses;
Why are firearms applications the "most lost " bits of paperwork in the entire aGS organisation?
For a bureaucracy that handles literally hundreds of thousands of bits of official paperwork every day, you never hear of arrest warrants, passport related paperwork, bail forms, speeding tickets, or the like going lost. Lost firearms applications seem to be THE most mislaid files ever.
So it leads to a couple of conclusions;

1] They are extremely sloppy with confidential personal data of applicants, with a "Meh, so what?" attitude to this whole procedure and storage of confidential data.

2] If this is a genuine problem, which it seems to be as these forms get lost all the time apparently, that some sort of corrective measures and protocol would be put in place to make sure this never happens again. You wouldn't be in business for very long in the private sector in any trade having losses like this in your branch offices.

3] Or it's a " We don't want you to have this at all,so we'll feed ya some line here of pure Bull that we lost it and you can go away and fill it up again, so we can play games with you. and hopefully, you'll get bored and FO for yourself and not bother us anymore.!"

The whole thing is set up to give them as much leeway as to obfusticate,and delay and long finger this entire procedure, its an utter joke. Get a quicker decision on where to build a house in the countryside, than you get on owning a gun in Ireland:rolleyes:

JP22 wrote: »

IMO and from speaking to colleagues I think it depends on your location, country wise that is and possibly the efficiency or otherwise of the station concerned.

I have held single/multiple licenses for about 35 years, longest wait was about 16 weeks for a new application, average for me in that time was about 8/9 weeks, best turn-around was ten days for a sub.

I wonder are license applications really lost (as in actually lost in the system) or is is just
bad management or
simply license applications not judged important and get shoved to the end of the line or
are license applications only looked at every 6/8 weeks or so.

One wonders.................

My longest application took 7 months, for my Sako 308. Applied on 1st April :eek:.
In that time there were 4 change of Superintendent. I'd say each one knew they were only there for a few weeks and put the applications in the 'In Box'. In the end I got to see the 'Last' Super and the grant letter was with me that week.
Quickest was this last application that took exactly 2 weeks from submission to getting the grant letter in the post.

Ok. So there's no official statement on it.

I can sign for both of them if I have there permission to do so, (and I do)

The better half just got her grant notice for her 1st .22 rifle within 10 days in Ennis...:eek:
Hats off to the Ennis AGS on this one!

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The better half just got her grant notice for her 1st .22 rifle within 10 days in Ennis...:eek:
Hats off to the Ennis AGS on this one!

Super, well done AGS.

42 days in and waiting.

Feisar wrote: »

What did ye go with in the end up?

Marlin papoose...Her choice and budget.:pac:

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Marlin papoose...Her choice and budget.:pac:

Did ye go new or second hand.. What sort of money was it..
I hope she didn't mind get a belated valentines gift in march.. love is great.. lol

Final Update.

License grant letter arrived today, 44 days in total, happy, happy :D

What we all need now is abolition of the 5k limit or at least extending it to inter county travel. Clubs may not open for a bit but at least I could fly fish.

Renewal sent in early march for the MSR.Grant notification in this AMs mail.
Still awaiting news on the Ruger mini 14

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm over 3 months waiting for a shotgun licence. Got a letter stating the conditions that I must adhere to so the grant letter mustn't be too far off now.

Being nosey here but if you can could you tell me what conditions are on it as I've never had any conditions put on my owning a firearm yet.If you can't or prefer not to say don't worry about it I'm just a nosey sh..e