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Starlink now open for pre-orders.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭ plodder


    Starlink satellites are at a much lower orbit compared to traditional satellite broadband suppliers.

    Latency is lower and speeds of between 250mbps to 400mbps are achievable. Far eclipsing some fibre bb providers.

    To compare this to previous satellite bb is void.
    Fibre is vastly superior to all satellite bb.

    LEO sats have good latency but capacity will never measure up to what the boosters are predicting. And capacity is what matters first and foremost once you have a reasonable level of latency which fibre provides.

    It's the same old story: Generation N of wireless tech never delivers. It's always coming in generation N+1. Free space optics is probably N+2. It won't deliver either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭ cruizer101


    joe123 wrote: »
    Starlink would not be able to supply 500k houses with sufficient speeds.

    No one is suggesting anywhere near 500k houses.
    The is around 2 million houses/apartments in Ireland, so if you were to look at the most rural say 1-2%, thats 20-40k houses and weigh up for those what is the cost of getting fibre to them vs something like starlink.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭ KildareP


    cruizer101 wrote: »
    No one is suggesting anywhere near 500k houses.
    The is around 2 million houses/apartments in Ireland, so if you were to look at the most rural say 1-2%, thats 20-40k houses and weigh up for those what is the cost of getting fibre to them vs something like starlink.
    Until we can answer the question "can Starlink supply 20-40k houses with a fast, stable and reliable connection of 100Mb+ at all times" with actual, proven and demonstrable results, then there is nothing that can be weighed up against the present NBP solution where we know exactly what we're getting and exactly what it's capable of.

    The theoretical maximums of the Starlink spec sheet that we've seen are just that - theoretical.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭ KildareP


    Messer1 wrote: »
    The discussion should be about NBP+Starlink. It will take a few years for Starlink to grow and bed in just as it will take till 2026 ish to finish NBP. There is no need to carve off areas specifically for Starlink as homes starved of BB at the moment can, if they wish, subscribe to it shortly and when fibre eventually arrives either stick or switch.
    I'll be honest, I've read your documents here and my takeaway of your pitch is that we should continue with the NBP but substitute (an undefined area) with Starlink. The very wording of it "Plan B for NBP" suggests that the present solution is somehow either at high risk of failure, or flawed, and that the government should be strongly reconsidering an alternative or backup plan to run alongside the current solution, and that this backup plan should be Starlink.

    Just my own personal reading and takeaway of it :)

    Until Starlink or wider LEO solutions are fully developed then I don't see why the government should either rewrite contracts to commit themselves to Starlink/LEO's in any measure or "Plan B" nor why they should promote Starlink/LEO's alongside the NBP, no more than they should promote any other operator out there today.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,544 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    Marlow wrote: »
    The usage per household is vastly smaller. Even today.

    Also, for reference: most OpenEIR exchanges currently only have a 10 Gbit/s connection back into the network. That can of course be upgraded, but that gives you a bit of a picture.

    /M

    I'd go out on a limb and say those stats are near obselete it not going that way fast, very fast. Between working from home, remote schooling, tv sure even bloody ring doorbells those numbers are obselete. And more so with the exodus from Dublin occuring right now as we type.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭ 47akak


    KildareP wrote: »
    Until we can answer the question "can Starlink supply 20-40k houses with a fast, stable and reliable connection of 100Mb+ at all times" with actual, proven and demonstrable results, then there is nothing that can be weighed up against the present NBP solution where we know exactly what we're getting and exactly what it's capable of.

    The theoretical maximums of the Starlink spec sheet that we've seen are just that - theoretical.

    Back of the envelope calculations but the answer is yes if you're talking 20k-40k houses, when there are 12000 satellites available globally in 5/6 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭ Messer1


    KildareP wrote: »
    I'll be honest, I've read your documents here and my takeaway of your pitch is that we should continue with the NBP but substitute (an undefined area) with Starlink. The very wording of it "Plan B for NBP" suggests that the present solution is somehow either at high risk of failure, or flawed, and that the government should be strongly reconsidering an alternative or backup plan to run alongside the current solution, and that this backup plan should be Starlink.

    Just my own personal reading and takeaway of it :)

    Until Starlink or wider LEO solutions are fully developed then I don't see why the government should either rewrite contracts to commit themselves to Starlink/LEO's in any measure or "Plan B" nor why they should promote Starlink/LEO's alongside the NBP, no more than they should promote any other operator out there today.

    Thanks for taking the trouble to read Plan B. It was never intended that the plan would undermine the NBP which it says has made "significant progress".

    However, a "plan b" for the NBP is clearly needed, and is being worked on based on Minister Ryan's comments, to speed up delivery of broadband within the IA. It was in that context that Starlink could target premises in areas where "incremental capex and waiting time for services are greatest". This does NOT require any direct Governmental intervention and this wasn't proposed in Plan B. However, it should be noted that in Germany a subsidy towards the cost of antenna is being considered and that the UK is considering incorporation of Starlink into Project Gigabit.

    For its sins, our Government is tangled up in a 25-year, 2k page 'watertight' contract linked to a very specific solution and heavily funded by taxpayers. Market forces and operational performance will determine whether Starlink or other solutions find a niche either in the run up to the completion of the NBP or thereafter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,472 ✭✭✭ joe123


    Messer1 wrote: »
    Thanks for taking the trouble to read Plan B. It was never intended that the plan would undermine the NBP which it says has made "significant progress".

    However, a "plan b" for the NBP is clearly needed, and is being worked on based on Minister Ryan's comments, to speed up delivery of broadband within the IA. It was in that context that Starlink could target premises in areas where "incremental capex and waiting time for services are greatest". This does NOT require any direct Governmental intervention and this wasn't proposed in Plan B. However, it should be noted that in Germany a subsidy towards the cost of antenna is being considered and that the UK is considering incorporation of Starlink into Project Gigabit.

    For its sins, our Government is tangled up in a 25-year, 2k page 'watertight' contract linked to a very specific solution and heavily funded by taxpayers. Market forces and operational performance will determine whether Starlink or other solutions find a niche either in the run up to the completion of the NBP or thereafter.

    Again, Absolute madness to be beating the drum for a tech that hasnt even been trialed here yet. Starlink may be a solution to that 1% NBI cant reach but if people want to use Starlink while they wait for NBI then great. I'm one of those people.

    Its clear as day that you have a massive bee in your bonnet over the rollout. But stop trying to talk on behalf of "rural" Ireland.

    Absolute flutes like this delay actual positive, progressive infastructure.

    And would you stop comparing a country the size of Ireland to the likes of the UK and the states.
    cruizer101 wrote: »
    No one is suggesting anywhere near 500k houses.
    The is around 2 million houses/apartments in Ireland, so if you were to look at the most rural say 1-2%, thats 20-40k houses and weigh up for those what is the cost of getting fibre to them vs something like starlink.

    Define rural?

    544k Premises in the IA. So its 1 -2% there NBI should look at for alternatives. Not 1-2% of 2 million.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭ Marlow


    Looking at the map this morning, it seems, that we're currently being passed by one of the more dense clusters of satellites.

    51080450028_01c44a986e_o.png

    /M


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,281 ✭✭✭✭ Atomic Pineapple


    Off topic: Can anyone else see a load of skulls in the picture Marlow just shared!? :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,774 ✭✭✭ irishgeo


    Marlow wrote: »
    Looking at the map this morning, it seems, that we're currently being passed by one of the more dense clusters of satellites.

    51080450028_01c44a986e_o.png

    /M
    They are not live yet and are enroute to their orbits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭ Marlow


    Off topic: Can anyone else see a load of skulls in the picture Marlow just shared!? :D

    Yep. Was thinking the same.
    irishgeo wrote: »
    They are not live yet and are enroute to their orbits.

    I assumed as much. There are 3 clusters like this over Europe atm. SpaceX have been pushing the launches pretty consistently lately.

    Also, I've seen the first UK residents receiving their Starlink gear, who signed up around the same time as I did, so there's a good chance, that they might start shipping to Ireland soon, too.

    /M


  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭ Romer


    Marlow wrote: »
    Also, I've seen the first UK residents receiving their Starlink gear, who signed up around the same time as I did, so there's a good chance, that they might start shipping to Ireland soon, too.

    /M

    Every time I see an update in this thread I'm hoping it's some lucky bugger saying theirs is shipped.


  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭ darrenheaphy


    Hehe, me too!


  • Moderators Posts: 6,708 ✭✭✭ Spocker


    Some kit on the way or already in Kerry, I'd be assuming it was fasttracked https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40253768.html
    The size of a small satellite dish, the kit that has made its way to Kerry includes a long cable and an indoor box said to be "the size of a lump of turf".


  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭ Messer1


    Hopefully first of many installations to help kick start Plan B for NBP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭✭ PeeJayIEee


    Just noticing this thread from the list of updates. Can't believe the first posts showing the tweet "Speed will double to ~300Mb/s & latency will drop to ~20ms later this year". I wonder what part of the path the latency comment refers to, because in the real world (as compared to science fantasy), physics mandates a round trip delay of approx. 550ms to a single satellite in geo-synchronous (stationary) orbit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭ loyatemu


    PeeJayIEee wrote: »
    Just noticing this thread from the list of updates. Can't believe the first posts showing the tweet "Speed will double to ~300Mb/s & latency will drop to ~20ms later this year". I wonder what part of the path the latency comment refers to, because in the real world (as compared to science fantasy), physics mandates a round trip delay of approx. 550ms to a single satellite in geo-synchronous (stationary) orbit.

    they're not geo-stationary, they're in low earth orbit and your "dish" can connect to multiple satellites in the cluster as they move around.


  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭ Messer1


    loyatemu wrote: »
    they're not geo-stationary, they're in low earth orbit and your "dish" can connect to multiple satellites in the cluster as they move around.

    Not only that but starting next year, Starlink sats will incorporate inter-sat laser links which will offer some speed advantages over terrestrial fibre. Also, possible competitors - Amazon and OneWeb - will be using ISLL from the start of their services.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 mikefromcork


    Messer1 wrote: »
    Hopefully first of many installations to help kick start Plan B for NBP.

    The only thing that would kickstart that is a government subsidy, which thankfully will never happen. Apart from the outside chance of subsidising it for the last 1 to 2% of the NBP. That would not happen for a number years as it would only serve to undermine the NBP.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭ ednwireland


    on the news last night
    The initial equipment to connect the Black Valley in Kerry to the internet is to be installed within days.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0329/1206850-black-valley-internet/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭ Orebro


    Messer1 wrote: »
    Hopefully first of many installations to help kick start Plan B for NBP.

    Yes I'm sure they're following that "plan" to the letter :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭ TheWonderLlama




  • Registered Users Posts: 755 ✭✭✭ Poulgorm


    Just curious: you get a dish that is pointing to the sky - so what is the role of the ground stations?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭ The Continental Op


    Poulgorm wrote: »
    Just curious: you get a dish that is pointing to the sky - so what is the role of the ground stations?

    How do you think the satellites connects to the internet?

    Don't forget these aren't stationary satellites they are moving, so as they move across the earth they need base stations across the world to connect to.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,628 ✭✭✭✭ The Cush


    John Collison (Stripe), Starlink in Ireland. Is he living in the Black Valley by any chance???

    https://twitter.com/collision/status/1387406756880412676


  • Moderators Posts: 6,708 ✭✭✭ Spocker


    It's not going to affect us directly in Ireland, but Starlink are partnering with Google to put some downlink points at Google Data Centres: https://cloud.google.com/press-releases/2021/0513/spacex-starlink-google-cloud


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭ BigAl81


    The Verge did a write up here...

    https://www.theverge.com/22435030/starlink-satellite-internet-spacex-review

    Seems like early days


  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭ Messer1


    BigAl81 wrote: »
    The Verge did a write up here...

    https://www.theverge.com/22435030/starlink-satellite-internet-spacex-review

    Seems like early days

    A very sloppy assessment which is refuted here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiU8EzNBEgo

    As a beta tester located in Dublin, the key to high performance is a clear sky view for the antenna. Early days yet, but my Starlink is superior to that of my eir-supplied FTTC service.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭ NewClareman


    SpaceX is now close to providing global broadband coverage, according to SpaceX President Gwynne Shotwell. By any standards this is a breathtaking roll out of technology. "After about 28 launches, we'll have continuous coverage throughout the globe," she said Tuesday during an online panel discussion for the Satellite 2021 LEO Digital Forum.

    Starlink trial providing 'absolutely fantastic' coverage in West Cork.


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