Starlink now open for pre-orders.

Marlow

Romer wrote: »

I've been WFH before it was fashionable. Had FTTH whilst living in the arse end of Wexford so when I moved to a small town in KK I didn't really even consider it wouldn't be an option. No FTTH on my street.

Hah ... similarly to me. I moved from VDSL, to OpenEIR FTTH in the sticks, back into town and had symmetric gigabit (SIRO business plan) and then back out into a village with VDSL being the outmost, I can get and no path to be upgraded.

So yes ... Starlink will sort that issue.

/M

joe123

Yeah honestly. If you want to debate it, at least try and read up a little on whats what. Not realising the NBI is covering premises within estates/towns/cities is one thing, but to believe rural folk have no utility costs is mad stuff. Group water schemes etc are all things in the country as much as cities believe it or not.

Its as if people believe everyone in the country is just randomly building houses whereever they want, ignoring the fact many of these houses came long before even dial up was a thing.

NBI also have stated there will be a small % of houses they will be unable to connect via Fibre but will look for alternative solutions. So its not as if they will be running cable up the sides of mountains to connect one single house.

On starlink, I'm not sure what the capacity for expansion/speed increases will be down the line, but we already know Fibre has ample opportunity for speeds >10 Gb.

Marlow you make a solid point in terms of Fibre being open to structural damage but our electrical supply is with the exact same risks. Storms etc will happen but for the most part you would be highly unlucky to see repeated damage in short time frames. My own brother has been on Fibre close to 2 years now and has only had one outage in that time, related to an electrical outage. Previous to this, he had terrible experiences with WISP and DSL.

Starlink while in its infancy will also likely encounter issues. They themselves have already said to expect complete outages at times. Correct me if im wrong but from some reading up on it, I believe these satellites have limited life spans too. Cant find the link on me now.

Space debris etc will all have an impact and I'll be interested to see how climate changes such as heavy rain and fog will affect it. We've already seen Ice/snow on the dish impacts it and the built in function to remove it didnt work great (albeit it was harsh conditions at the time)

Again I'm not anti-starlink, there is every chance I will sign up to cover the wait until FTTH which is looking like ~2025. And before anyone asks, I live in a town, in an estate not 20 minutes outside of a City.

Cordell

Starlink will not replace FTTH nor really compete with it.

Exactly. It's supposed to be the last option before going to the classic satellite internet.

Also, it's supposed to be a better option from latency point of view for applications like high frequency trading, where it should edge in front of transatlantic cables.

Marlow

joe123 wrote: »

Marlow you make a solid point in terms of Fibre being open to structural damage but our electrical supply is with the exact same risks.

I still have power, when the power goes ... because I have already taken care of that backup.

joe123 wrote: »

Starlink while in its infancy will also likely encounter issues. They themselves have already said to expect complete outages at times. Correct me if im wrong but from some reading up on it, I believe these satellites have limited life spans too.

Of course they have. And that's why they're continually are sending up more and replacing them on an ongoing basis. It's part of running that service.

joe123 wrote: »

Space debris etc will all have an impact and I'll be interested to see how climate changes such as heavy rain and fog will affect it.

That's already been tested extensively during the beta. Here is an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPrrx4pM-lY

And in regards to space debris etc. Those issues can be fixed with repositioning. And you should always have more than one satellite in view at optimum. It doesn't take as long to reposition a satellite than it takes to physically get an engineer out and resplice a fibre.

/M

joe123

Marlow wrote: »

I still have power, when the power goes ... because I have already taken care of that backup.



Of course they have. And that's why they're continually are sending up more and replacing them on an ongoing basis. It's part of running that service.



That's already been tested extensively during the beta. Here is an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPrrx4pM-lY

And in regards to space debris etc. Those issues can be fixed with repositioning. And you should always have more than one satellite in view at optimum. It doesn't take as long to reposition a satellite than it takes to physically get an engineer out and resplice a fibre.

/M

Not the video I watched on it, this one had frozen snow on his dish that he was unable to melt, which caused the speeds to drop. He had to manually clear the dish.

EDIT: Fair play if you have a generator for electrical outages but at guess youd be in the less than 5% that would have a backup like that (excluding business'). Unless there is an expectation that everyone in the country should also have back up generators for those 2 / 3 times a year electrical faults.

Marlow

joe123 wrote: »

Not the video I watched on it, but he has frozen snow on his dish that he was unable to melt, which caused the speeds to drop. He had to manually clear the dish.

Yep. And that was the worst that happened. Not a bad outcome at all. And an easy fix to the issue.

/M

joe123

Marlow wrote: »

Yep. And that was the worst that happened. Not a bad outcome at all. And an easy fix to the issue.

/M

True, but at the same time if I have a dish on my roof, I don't want to have to get on a ladder every time to try and remove ice. Anyways doubt we would even see extreme issues like that here.

Id be more curious to see how it fairs against heavy rain / fog. I also wonder would things like birds sitting on the dish have any impact?

As I'm out of contract soon on my current provider I'll likely have to renew with them for the time being so Im going to hold off on pre-ordering. By this time next year we should have a much better idea of how Starlink runs here in Ireland.

The Continental Op

joe123 wrote: »

True, but at the same time if I have a dish on my roof, I don't want to have to get on a ladder every time to try and remove ice. Anyways doubt we would even see extreme issues like that here.

Id be more curious to see how it fairs against heavy rain / fog. I also wonder would things like birds sitting on the dish have any impact?

As I'm out of contract soon on my current provider I'll likely have to renew with them for the time being so Im going to hold off on pre-ordering. By this time next year we should have a much better idea of how Starlink runs here in Ireland.

By that time it could be oversubscribed?

Marlow

The Continental Op wrote: »

By that time it could be oversubscribed?

They are limiting the amount of subscriptions based on capacity per geographical area.

Also oversubscribing Starlink will be less likely than oversubscribing FTTH. Scaling Starlink is a lot easier than scaling FTTH. Well .. sort of.

/M

The Continental Op

Marlow wrote: »

They are limiting the amount of subscriptions based on capacity per geographical area.

Also oversubscribing StarLink will be less likely than oversubscribing FTTH.

/M

Then it could become oversubscribed in a geographical area, if you are in an area where it is a good option then its likely you aren't the only one

The "sign up" is a bit weird though. If I use a general area address which the postman would cop on to and deliver then I can sign up but if I use my actual address or a Plus code then I can't.

Marlow

The Continental Op wrote: »

The "sign up" is a bit weird though. If I use a general area address which the postman would cop on to and deliver then I can sign up but if I use my actual address or a Plus code then I can't.

You need the plus code, because they need your precise location to determine, if you have coverage or when you will have coverage. Obviously they created some sort of database for coverage, that is based on Plus codes.

That determines, when your dish is being shipped.

The plus code however is useless to the postman. So you need to enter your address. And that has to be done in an old fashioned manner, because not every country has GPS precise postcodes like Ireland.

This is not an irish company. This is a US company, that delivers internet world wide.

/M

plodder

Orebro wrote: »

Point well made. I'd still take FTTH over Starlink any day though, even if it meant taking my chances with storm damage. Also if it got that bad chances are you'd be without electricity too!

I think the reliability point is a valid one up to a point. But, FTTH strung along poles is reliable enough for nearly all residential users and most business users. Been working from home the last year, and my OH long before that. I haven't noticed any outages in the last year or two. Capacity and bandwidth is much more important for most users, and there will be a big question mark over whether Starlink can sustain the bandwidth that they are offering initially (with limited numbers of subscribers per beam area). I think it's a great short term solution for those who can afford it though.

listermint

Marlow wrote: »

They are limiting the amount of subscriptions based on capacity per geographical area.

Also oversubscribing Starlink will be less likely than oversubscribing FTTH. Scaling Starlink is a lot easier than scaling FTTH. Well .. sort of.

/M

We will disagree on this this point entirely.

I'm still of the firm opinion that rural network broadband is being used to obtain some income for this project whilst it's ultimate goal and original inception was to provide worldwide network for driverless vehicles . I believe that home connections will come secondary to that end goal. Vehicle telemetry especially in the US is patchy due to poor 4G coverage and middling 3G in places. This is to fix that . But get money in the door with home broadband in the meantime.


Time will tell what over prescription means the ts and cs cover them to any change they wish to make either way

The Cush

Big golf balls spotted at Elfordstown
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40232972.html

Marlow

The Cush wrote: »

Big golf balls spotted at Elfordstown
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40232972.html

Well positioned, too. 3 submarine backbone fibres coming out of Cork in direction UK/France. 2 more along the coast down there.

/M

The Cush

Marlow wrote: »

Well positioned, too. 3 submarine backbone fibres coming out of Cork in direction UK/France.

This map only lists the GTT Express submarine cable to Brean, UK and Halifax, NS, Canada. What are the other two?

https://www.submarinecablemap.com/#/submarine-cable/gtt-express

Marlow

The Cush wrote: »

This map only lists the GTT Express submarine cable to Brean, UK and Halifax, NS, Canada. What are the other two?

You are right. The ones, I was on about are Esat-1, Pan European and Solas. But they're more like Waterford terminated. The GTT one is a good option though.

/M

ilovespudss

Can anyone tell me if there is an restriction on distance from dish to router?

Currently in the middle of a new build house in rural location and like others on the thread I'm looking for a solution while waiting on NBI. House well insulated so standard solution of 4g router is not going to work.

At 1st fix electrics stage so trying to figure out the logistics of Starlink as an option. I'm having a comms hub in the attic where I'll place router and switch and from there I'm running Cat6 to all rooms as well as a couple of wifi spots around the house.

From a look at the website, the general setup is a ground/roof mounted dish that then runs to a router within the house? Would there be a limit to the distance of the cable run from Dish to Router?

Marlow

ilovespudss wrote: »

Can anyone tell me if there is an restriction on distance from dish to router?

The cable from the dish to PoE unit isn't easy to replace. That cable is approx 100ft / 30 metres. You'd need a power point at that point, but you don't have to place the router there.

From the PoE power supply to their router, you could in theory go another 60-70m, if you replace that cable.

The maximum cable run from the dish to the router should not exceed 100m.

The cable from the dish to the PoE power supply is outdoor grade Cat6. The cable from the PoE power supply to the router can be standard cat6 or cat5e.

/M

Spocker

On a semi related question, how are people planning to mount their dish? It seems the supplied tripod is for a flat surface, does it have to be flat?. If mounting on a roof I'd guess the apex would be best, but would a custom fitting be needed?

The Cush

Marlow wrote: »

The cable from the dish to PoE unit isn't easy to replace. That cable is approx 100ft / 30 metres. You'd need a power point at that point, but you don't have to place the router there.

From the PoE power supply to their router, you could in theory go another 60-70m, if you replace that cable.

The maximum cable run from the dish to the router should not exceed 100m.

There is a very recent post over on the Starlink reddit forum where to clear dish obstructions they placed the PoE in a waterproof box and ran a length of Ethernet from the house to the box as a temporary solution to get the system up and running.

ilovespudss

Cheers for the info.

That'll work

The Cush

Spocker wrote: »

On a semi related question, how are people planning to mount their dish? It seems the supplied tripod is for a flat surface, does it have to be flat?. If mounting on a roof I'd guess the apex would be best, but would a custom fitting be needed?

Any solutions I've seen over in Reddit were from north American subscribers and these were for shingle roofs. Pole mount on a gable end with the dish clearing the roof.

There are a few installed in the UK, they may have posted solutions.

Spocker

J poles seems to be a common enough solution https://www.ubersignal.com/surecall-j-pole-antenna-mount.html

Marlow

Spocker wrote: »

On a semi related question, how are people planning to mount their dish? It seems the supplied tripod is for a flat surface, does it have to be flat?. If mounting on a roof I'd guess the apex would be best, but would a custom fitting be needed?

The tripod foot that comes with the dish literally has a round pole mount for the dish and pole to fit into.

All you'd need is a pole coupler, lashing kit on the chimney or traditional L bracket on the wall and some U-bolts, to bolt it on.

The tripod foot is a seperate part. You don't have to fit it. That's at least what I gather from the unboxing I've looked at.

I wouldn't fit it on the chimney though, if it's in use. Not sure, how that dish deals with heat.

/M

Spocker

Marlow wrote: »

I wouldn't fit it on the chimney though, if it's in use. Not sure, how that dish deals with heat.

/M

Me neither - it'd need to be high enough to clear the cap, and still allow full motion, and my chimney is in use.

It'll either be a standoff pole, or a couple of K brackets with a large enough pole. Looks like the weight of the dish plus (all the) cable is 15.6 pounds or just over 7 kilos

joe123

Think I'd just pay someone to install it on the roof for me + wire the cable down through then. Might be tricky in the initial stages getting someone who knows what they are at and understand the tech. Probably another reason to hold off until more installs take place.

Wonder could we see some professional installers for this type of thing pop up.

The Cush

joe123 wrote: »

Think I'd just pay someone to install it on the roof for me + wire the cable down through then. Might be tricky in the initial stages getting someone who knows what they are at and understand the tech. Probably another reason to hold off until more installs take place.

Wonder could we see some professional installers for this type of thing pop up.

Any satellite installer worth his salt after watching a few online install videos will have no problems with this technology, basically plug and play, remembering the the dish auto aligns northish and getting the correct adapter between dish and pole.

Marlow

The satellite map at https://satellitemap.space/ now lists 2 european groundstations:

Villenave d’Ornon, France and Gravelines, France.

/M

corazon

SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet in talks for a place in the UK’s $6.9 billion ‘Project Gigabit’
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/22/elon-musks-spacex-starlink-in-talks-with-uks-project-gigabit.html

Why not do the same in Ireland?