Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

Kermit.de.frog · 21-03-2021 01:21PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

They've decided to conflate the Loyalist Brexit death threat against Varadkar and Coveney with Varadkars leaking of documents, two completely different stories ,

Have they?

It specifically mentions right wing elements and not loyalists in the first instance.

McMurphy · 21-03-2021 01:21PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

They've decided to conflate the Loyalist Brexit death threat against Varadkar and Coveney with Varadkars leaking of documents, two completely different stories ,

Indeed. The former has been aired and covered since January.

RandomViewer · 21-03-2021 01:21PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Would they have enough cell space for them.

This investigation on Varadkar in my opinion is being spurred on by a large coterie in the media.

Its like Seanie, all over again, so much out there claim he can't get a fair trial, dont think it'll wash this time

McMurphy · 21-03-2021 01:25PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Have they?

It specifically mentions right wing elements and not loyalists in the first instance.

4 days ago......

RandomViewer · 21-03-2021 01:28PM

McMurphy wrote: »

4 days ago......

FG having trouble accepting that their beloved Loyalists who they've been in bed with since the 70s have turned on them

Kermit.de.frog · 21-03-2021 01:37PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

FG having trouble accepting that their beloved Loyalists who they've been in bed with since the 70s have turned on them

Explain.

Good old Shinner nonsense.

Sinn Fein are administering British rule in NI on behalf of Her Majesty's Government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Fine Gael meanwhile has done more in the last 4 years for nationalists than SF and their terrorist friends in 40 years of chaos and murder.

That's a fact.

McMurphy · 21-03-2021 01:41PM

jackboy wrote: »

So now we have moved on from paddy cosgrove to loyalists as a distraction to Leo leaking the document.

Yep......

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Explain.

Good old Shinner nonsense.

Sinn Fein are administering British rule in NI on behalf of Her Majesty's Government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Fine Gael meanwhile has done more in the last 4 years for nationalists than SF and their terrorist friends in 40 years of chaos and murder.

That's a fact.

21-03-2021 01:42PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'man of honour' who neglected to give this information to the Dáil? He's as bad as Leo if he is now angling for the top job using this.

If you’d watched the Dail debate, you’d know that he did actually say that he was asked but declined. He also said that he hadn’t seen the document even though Leo had gotten it from Simons department of health.

RandomName2 · 21-03-2021 01:55PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

What are you talking about?

What parts did you have trouble with? Where did your misunderstanding began? Help me, to help you.

RandomName2 wrote: »

I don't know whether the treatment of NAGP was felt as necessary for optics by Varadkar. He certainly seemed to regret the way it panned out, and was apparently trying to mend bridges. Maybe he felt that the window of opportunity to do so was brief given the inevitable demise of NAGP.

Of course now that I think about it, presumably it was a former member of NAGP who was still pissed off with Varadkar, who leaked the WhatsApp messages in the first place.

Falling into the river in the attempt to mend bridges.

RandomName2 · 21-03-2021 01:57PM

jackboy wrote: »

So now we have moved on from paddy cosgrove to loyalists as a distraction to Leo leaking the document.

Yep......

RandomViewer wrote: »

FG having trouble accepting that their beloved Loyalists who they've been in bed with since the 70s have turned on them

FrancieBrady · 21-03-2021 02:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If you’d watched the Dail debate, you’d know that he did actually say that he was asked but declined. He also said that he hadn’t seen the document even though Leo had gotten it from Simons department of health.

He never said that somebody other than O'Toole asked him. He is very plainly reported to have said the word 'also' in that article.

That is why this is news and that is why I am accusing Harris of not being truthful in the Dáil. If he did neglect to say this then he too is damaged goods.

super_furry · 21-03-2021 02:46PM

Think we're seeing the beginning of the end for Leo. Kate O'Connell on Brendan O'Connor there just threw him under the bus.

21-03-2021 02:48PM

super_furry wrote: »

Think we're seeing the beginning of the end for Leo. Kate O'Connell on Brendan O'Connor there just threw him under the bus.

What did she say?

NVM it's being reported here, she certainly turned on him. Leo is toast

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40248440.html

RandomViewer · 21-03-2021 03:16PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Explain.

Good old Shinner nonsense.

Sinn Fein are administering British rule in NI on behalf of Her Majesty's Government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Fine Gael meanwhile has done more in the last 4 years for nationalists than SF and their terrorist friends in 40 years of chaos and murder.

That's a fact.

Look up Liam Cosgrave, was Taoiseach (and possible MI5 asset) in the 70s,

JeffKenna · 21-03-2021 03:19PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

FG having trouble accepting that their beloved Loyalists who they've been in bed with since the 70s have turned on them

It must be hitting John Bruton very hard.

RandomViewer · 21-03-2021 03:36PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

It must be hitting John Bruton very hard.

He can hang his hat on the knighthood now

McMurphy · 21-03-2021 03:37PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Wow. Certainly an interesting interpretation of that article from you Francie. No wonder you think there is new information in it. That's not how it reads at all though.

To me it is very clearly saying that he was also contacted by O'Toole, separate to Varadkar being contacted by O'Toole. As we knew.

I can see now why you were so confused with my posts though, certainly clears it up.

Seems O'Toole asked more than just Simon and Leo. My guess is this where the whistleblower fits in.

Beasty · 21-03-2021 03:46PM

Beasty wrote: »

This thread is about Varadkar. Take all discussion of political parties to the relevant threads

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Explain.

Good old Shinner nonsense.

Sinn Fein are administering British rule in NI on behalf of Her Majesty's Government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Fine Gael meanwhile has done more in the last 4 years for nationalists than SF and their terrorist friends in 40 years of chaos and murder.

That's a fact.

RandomViewer wrote: »

Look up Liam Cosgrave, was Taoiseach (and possible MI5 asset) in the 70s,

JeffKenna wrote: »

It must be hitting John Bruton very hard.

RandomViewer wrote: »

He can hang his hat on the knighthood now

The above posters are now threadbanned (except the one at the very top!)

Muahahaha · 21-03-2021 05:59PM

McMurphy wrote: »

Seems O'Toole asked more than just Simon and Leo. My guess is this where the whistleblower fits in.

This is all on the whistleblower and that Sunday Times article had a couple of new tidbits contained within it that tell us more about whats been going on

1. Senior civil servants in Simon Harris Dept of Health are negotiating the new GP contract (worth 200 million odd) with the IMO
2. Harris (their boss) asks them for a copy of the contract. The senior civil servants refuse to give it to him "because of the sensitivity of the negotiations". This shows the importance of the document to the very civil servants who were working for months on it, it also shows that they didnt trust Simon Harris not to leak it himself. He is their boss and they were refusing to give it to him.
3. O'Tuathill, having tried to get it from Harris himself now turns to Leo. The contract is then leaked from a senior civil servant in the Dept of Health to another senior civil servant in Leos Dept of the Taoiseach who then passes it onto Leo himself who puts it in a taxi to o'Tuathills house.
4. Whistleblower (presumably a senior civil servant in Harris' Dept. of Health who is pissed off that all his work on highly secretive negotiations is getting leaked to a rival union to the IMO) makes a protected disclosure to the Gardai who do a scoping exercise. This exercise includes detectives interviewing Simon Harris in his office and telling him he may be a witness to a crime.
5. Scoping exercise concludes and Gardai open full scale criminal investigation into Leo the Leak. The upgrade is because of what the whisteblower told them and what Simon Harris told them.

This is very serious stuff at the very top level of government. We have senior civil servants who dont even trust their own Minister with a document, we have at least two senior civil servants who went rogue and leaked it at Leos orders anyway and now we've another senior civil servant who has blown the whistle on the whole sorry mess. And then Leo going behind Harris' back to get one of his officials to get it leaked out of the Dept of Health.

Its noteworthy that the two civil servants who facilitated the leak have not yet been interviewed by the Gardai, just like Leo himself. So it would seem that they too are under criminal investigation. If they end up facing criminal charges over an order from Leo Id say there will be absolute ructions in the civil service.

skimpydoo · 21-03-2021 06:45PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

This is all on the whistleblower and that Sunday Times article had a couple of new tidbits contained within it that tell us more about whats been going on

1. Senior civil servants in Simon Harris Dept of Health are negotiating the new GP contract (worth 200 million odd) with the IMO
2. Harris (their boss) asks them for a copy of the contract. The senior civil servants refuse to give it to him "because of the sensitivity of the negotiations". This shows the importance of the document to the very civil servants who were working for months on it, it also shows that they didnt trust Simon Harris not to leak it himself. He is their boss and they were refusing to give it to him.
3. O'Tuathill, having tried to get it from Harris himself now turns to Leo. The contract is then leaked from a senior civil servant in the Dept of Health to another senior civil servant in Leos Dept of the Taoiseach who then passes it onto Leo himself who puts it in a taxi to o'Tuathills house.
4. Whistleblower (presumably a senior civil servant in Harris' Dept. of Health who is pissed off that all his work on highly secretive negotiations is getting leaked to a rival union to the IMO) makes a protected disclosure to the Gardai who do a scoping exercise. This exercise includes detectives interviewing Simon Harris in his office and telling him he may be a witness to a crime.
5. Scoping exercise concludes and Gardai open full scale criminal investigation into Leo the Leak. The upgrade is because of what the whisteblower told them and what Simon Harris told them.

This is very serious stuff at the very top level of government. We have senior civil servants who dont even trust their own Minister with a document, we have at least two senior civil servants who went rogue and leaked it at Leos orders anyway and now we've another senior civil servant who has blown the whistle on the whole sorry mess. And then Leo going behind Harris' back to get one of his officials to get it leaked out of the Dept of Health.

Its noteworthy that the two civil servants who facilitated the leak have not yet been interviewed by the Gardai, just like Leo himself. So it would seem that they too are under criminal investigation. If they end up facing criminal charges over an order from Leo Id say there will be absolute ructions in the civil service.

This describes what happened in a nutshell. So any FG/Leo supporter on here care to try and defend this? None of the above mentions SF so don't try and muddy the waters by bringing them into it.

Muahahaha · 21-03-2021 07:02PM

skimpydoo wrote: »

This describes what happened in a nutshell. So any FG/Leo on here care to try and defend this? None of the above mentions SF so don't try and muddy the waters by bringing them into it.

I was just wondering where the FG heads are now to continue on their tall stories that a document literally marked on the front page 'Confidential- Not for Circulation' wasnt actually a confidential document at all :rolleyes:

Now it turns out that it was so confidential that even Simon Harris' own civil servants were refusing to give him a copy.

21-03-2021 07:12PM

skimpydoo wrote: »

This describes what happened in a nutshell. So any FG/Leo supporter on here care to try and defend this? None of the above mentions SF so don't try and muddy the waters by bringing them into it.

When exactly did Simon Harris ask to see the document? Before it was finalised or afterwards?

Suckit · 21-03-2021 07:13PM

Rosita wrote: »

Good day for Harris in the context of a future leadership contest. Comes across as a man of honour who had the opportunity for leaking but didn't take it. He was a Coveney supporter in the previous one so he might let him have the next one.

I think it's safe to completely reword that, starting with "A very bad day for Harris".
He never had the opportunity for leaking, and it seems that was because it was believed he definitely would have. He went looking...

Suckit · 21-03-2021 07:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

When exactly did Simon Harris ask to see the document? Before it was finalised or afterwards?

Before. As he asked before Leo did, and Leo says in his texts that it wasn't finished after he leaked it.

skimpydoo · 21-03-2021 07:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

When exactly did Simon Harris ask to see the document? Before it was finalised or afterwards?

Before it was finalised. Do you think it was afterwards?:rolleyes:

micosoft · 21-03-2021 07:20PM

skimpydoo wrote: »

This describes what happened in a nutshell. So any FG/Leo supporter on here care to try and defend this? None of the above mentions SF so don't try and muddy the waters by bringing them into it.

Not even Leo is defending it? He apologised for it.

You've bizarrely made up the idea that this was a contract between the government and the IMO when it's the GP contract that all GP's got. Even within this there is no possibility that any person or indeed party gained from it and the only possible downside was a Union refusing to sign or holding out because they thought better terms were available. It was a union negotiation where leaking terms to the other unions has generally happened to avoid that. Leaks by both parties by the way. No one has pointed out who benefited other than the Irish Public who didn't have to deal with industrial action by the GP community.

It was wrong but probably a 1 or a 1.5 out of 10 in terms of "scandals". And that is comparing to the current scandals in the UK, Germany and up North. Not whataboutery - but actual perspective. Something missed in a thread with thousands of posts.

The only strange thing seems to be the extraordinary orchestration and magnification of anything involving Varadkar right down to the hashtags. Almost like some party is importing the astroturfing tactics of certain US players. As such I realise this thread will go on and on and if answerable case is likely to be found, switch to "political policing".

21-03-2021 07:23PM

skimpydoo wrote: »

Before it was finalised. Do you think it was afterwards?:rolleyes:

The actual dates are important, if you know them?

Rows Grower · 21-03-2021 07:25PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I was just wondering where the FG heads are now to continue on their tall stories that a document literally marked on the front page 'Confidential- Not for Circulation' wasnt actually a confidential document at all :rolleyes:

Now it turns out that it was so confidential that even Simon Harris' own civil servants were refusing to give him a copy.

This is an irrefutable abuse of power by Leo.

His ongoing denial on the airwaves that he has done anything illegal is only compounding the problem.

FrancieBrady · 21-03-2021 07:26PM

micosoft wrote: »

Not even Leo is defending it? He apologised for it.

You've bizarrely made up the idea that this was a contract between the government and the IMO when it's the GP contract that all GP's got. Even within this there is no possibility that any person or indeed party gained from it and the only possible downside was a Union refusing to sign or holding out because they thought better terms were available. It was a union negotiation where leaking terms to the other unions has generally happened to avoid that. Leaks by both parties by the way. No one has pointed out who benefited other than the Irish Public who didn't have to deal with industrial action by the GP community.

It was wrong but probably a 1 or a 1.5 out of 10 in terms of "scandals". And that is comparing to the current scandals in the UK, Germany and up North. Not whataboutery - but actual perspective. Something missed in a thread with thousands of posts.

The only strange thing seems to be the extraordinary orchestration and magnification of anything involving Varadkar right down to the hashtags. Almost like some party is importing the astroturfing tactics of certain US players. As such I realise this thread will go on and on and if answerable case is likely to be found, switch to "political policing".

#LeavePoorLeoAlone?

Suckit · 21-03-2021 07:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The actual dates are important, if you know them?

10th of April he asked Harris for them.

Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

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