What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

19-03-2021 03:45PM

Strazdas wrote: »

But have a look at this from the same article :

The “vast, vast, vast majority” - over 80% - of the 100 million doses AstraZeneca will produce for the United Kingdom will be made there, Ian McCubbin, manufacturing lead for the Vaccine Taskforce, said, but this year’s first batches will not.

“The initial supply and it’s a little bit of a quirk of the programme actually comes from the Netherlands and Germany,” he told reporters.

“But once that’s supplied, which we expect will be all by the end of this year, then the remainder of the supply will be a UK supply chain.”

Why are the UK and AZ so dependent on doses from India? And are AZ really going to produce 80m doses in the UK for the UK this year?

I'm not sure what point you are making?

It seems to me that the UK is administering doses quicker than it can get them, pretty much like everyone else.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Can you quote from the contract where it specifically excludes the UK from the initial batch?

it isn't that the UK is specifically excluded, it is that it is specifically not included that is telling.

AZ would not be able to agree to use best efforts to supply from the EU and UK if they knew that the UK was out of scope, so my guess is that is why the UK is only included in the additional doses, because by that time, there is a chance the UK plant could be used.

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

Who - about half the population of Europe and the Uk I’d say.

The article you just linked there proves my point. The majority of AZ supply will come from the UK according to that article. Just because something isn’t a secret when you find one article linking your point to a specific element of someone’s post, try thinking about people’s perception and what people think. This is not a court of law. It’s reasonable to assume from passing information that the majority of vaccine used in the successful rollout of the Uk is made in the UK. In due course I’d say the second half of the 100 million order they’re giving away probably will be, later this year.

I’d say the average Johnny englander still thinks they are exporting vaccines, don’t think they’re importing AZ , and certainly think most people have been given AZ in the UK. Supply from India, while flagged, still is a shock. Boris said the Uk was self sufficient for vaccine supply, It has to be this way, else the vaccine rollout wouldn’t be as much a success for independent UK. You only need to ascertain people’s comments on similar uk based forums to here. Why would they think any different, it’s what Boris either has told them, or in some cases not told them, all backed up by the majority of the anti EU media in the UK.

What you mean is, you had no idea therefore half of europe had no idea.

The reality is, outside of the mind of a few boards Poaters no one really cares.

Pete_Cavan · 19-03-2021 04:15PM

Aegir wrote: »

it isn't that the UK is specifically excluded, it is that it is specifically not included that is telling.

AZ would not be able to agree to use best efforts to supply from the EU and UK if they knew that the UK was out of scope, so my guess is that is why the UK is only included in the additional doses, because by that time, there is a chance the UK plant could be used.

Two UK plants are named in the contract. Again, the direct quote is "AstraZeneca shall use its Best Reasonable Efforts to manufacture the Initial Europe Doses within the EU". It doesn't say they absolutely have to be made in the EU and nowhere else. That certainly leaves the door open to receiving doses from elsewhere, particularly the UK plants which are named.

Strazdas · 19-03-2021 04:21PM

Aegir wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you are making?

It seems to me that the UK is administering doses quicker than it can get them, pretty much like everyone else.

I'm suggesting that McCubbin sounds rather optimistic in saying that AZ will produce 80m doses in the UK for the British market this year. That would mean having to produce 1.53m doses a week right up until Dec 31st. Are they achieving that even at the moment? Have they already supplied Britain with 17m UK manufactured doses (1.53 x 11 weeks)?

19-03-2021 04:26PM

Strazdas wrote: »

I'm suggesting that McCubbin sounds rather optimistic in saying that AZ will produce 80m doses in the UK for the British market this year. That would mean having to produce 1.53m doses a week right up until Dec 31st. Are they achieving that even at the moment? Have they already supplied Britain with 17m UK manufactured doses (1.53 x 11 weeks)?

I would imagine his optimism has more to do with the fact that without the manufacturing set up he over saw, there would be zero vaccines produced in the UK.

19-03-2021 04:27PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Two UK plants are named in the contract.

and the significance of that is?

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Again, the direct quote is "AstraZeneca shall use its Best Reasonable Efforts to manufacture the Initial Europe Doses within the EU". It doesn't say they absolutely have to be made in the EU and nowhere else. That certainly leaves the door open to receiving doses from elsewhere, particularly the UK plants which are named.

so why were the UK plants not specifically included?

Call me Al · 19-03-2021 04:45PM

I would expect that best efforts on the part of AZ would imply that both factories in 4he EU would be up and running producing vaccines for the EU population.
Yet here we are 8 months later and still only one manufacturing location in use for the EU when there are two in the EU.
Not even an application submitted by AZ for the Halix site yet.

JP Liz V1 · 19-03-2021 05:43PM

NIAC has recommended that Ireland resumes use of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine

is_that_so · 19-03-2021 05:44PM

Call me Al wrote: »

I would expect that best efforts on the part of AZ would imply that both factories in 4he EU would be up and running producing vaccines for the EU population.
Yet here we are 8 months later and still only one manufacturing location in use for the EU when there are two in the EU.
Not even an application submitted by AZ for the Halix site yet.

They say it will be ready to go on 25 March.

greyday · 19-03-2021 05:52PM

Call me Al wrote: »

I would expect that best efforts on the part of AZ would imply that both factories in 4he EU would be up and running producing vaccines for the EU population.
Yet here we are 8 months later and still only one manufacturing location in use for the EU when there are two in the EU.
Not even an application submitted by AZ for the Halix site yet.

Do they not have to validate the process as all other pharma companies do?

Tippbhoy1 · 19-03-2021 06:59PM

Aegir wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you are making?

It seems to me that the UK is administering doses quicker than it can get them, pretty much like everyone else.

it isn't that the UK is specifically excluded, it is that it is specifically not included that is telling.

AZ would not be able to agree to use best efforts to supply from the EU and UK if they knew that the UK was out of scope, so my guess is that is why the UK is only included in the additional doses, because by that time, there is a chance the UK plant could be used.

What you mean is, you had no idea therefore half of europe had no idea.

The reality is, outside of the mind of a few boards Poaters no one really cares.

You are deluded if you think the majority of uk citizens knew that two thirds of their vaccines to date were coming from outside the UK.

19-03-2021 07:04PM

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

You are deluded if you think the majority of uk citizens knew that two thirds of their vaccines to date were coming from outside the UK.

You are deluded if you think two thirds of them give a **** where they’re coming from.

19-03-2021 07:07PM

Aegir wrote: »

and could explain why no one seems to be rushing to make the vaccine. There must be dozens of facilities in europe that could produce it, but why bother when they can carry on making whatever they make now at huge profits.

It takes a lot of money and a lot of time to retool a plant

Strazdas · 19-03-2021 07:57PM

Aegir wrote: »

You are deluded if you think two thirds of them give a **** where they’re coming from.

But they do. The AZ rollout has been framed as a "British vaccine" and a "huge British success story". News that GB has been importing AZ doses from the EU and India (whilst shouting from the rooftops how terrible the EU are) is a bit of an uncomfortable revelation.

RobMc59 · 19-03-2021 08:21PM

Strazdas wrote: »

But they do. The AZ rollout has been framed as a "British vaccine" and a "huge British success story". News that GB has been importing AZ doses from the EU and India (whilst shouting from the rooftops how terrible the EU are) is a bit of an uncomfortable revelation.

Not really. Companies who develop pharmaceuticals often outsource their manufacture to other companies and countries.Pfizer which is an American company has manufacturing facilities in Ireland.They have also outsourced manufacture of intermediates to companies in the UK.

Call me Al · 19-03-2021 08:27PM

greyday wrote: »

Do they not have to validate the process as all other pharma companies do?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/breton-no-astrazeneca-jabs-exported-from-netherlands-after-eu-export-controls/amp/

Well according to the above Halix are believed to have been exporting to UK until restrictions were put in place.
How much validation does the process need if this the case?

robinph · 19-03-2021 09:01PM

Strazdas wrote: »

But they do. The AZ rollout has been framed as a "British vaccine" and a "huge British success story". News that GB has been importing AZ doses from the EU and India (whilst shouting from the rooftops how terrible the EU are) is a bit of an uncomfortable revelation.

Oxford is still definitely in the UK.

Really don't think most people gave any thoughts about where its actually made or cared if it was in the UK or not. They know full well that the UK doesn't actually make a whole lot of stuff physically anymore.

CWF · 19-03-2021 10:30PM

Anybody get an appointment for the A Z vaccine yet?

Bubbaclaus · 19-03-2021 10:33PM

CWF wrote: »

Anybody get an appointment for the A Z vaccine yet?

Someone in the vaccine thread has their appointment on Sunday.

Call me Al · 19-03-2021 11:30PM

CWF wrote: »

Anybody get an appointment for the A Z vaccine yet?

My friend had her AZ cancelled this week, told by her consultant it was probably going to be April as a consequence, and as of this evening it's rebooked for Monday a.m.
I just feel relieved for her to be honest.

Strazdas · 19-03-2021 11:54PM

robinph wrote: »

Oxford is still definitely in the UK.

Really don't think most people gave any thoughts about where its actually made or cared if it was in the UK or not. They know full well that the UK doesn't actually make a whole lot of stuff physically anymore.

If the British media and public were simply blowing their own trumpet and saying what a great job of the vaccine rollout they were doing, nobody would even bat an eyelid.

It's the fact that they are doing it at the EU's expense that is grating : "We are doing a fantastic job, whilst the corrupt / evil / incompetent EU are a shambles and are trying to steal our vaccines. This proves we were right all along to Brexit". This is just Grade A propaganda and gaslighting.

Wolf359f · 20-03-2021 12:19AM

Strazdas wrote: »

If the British media and public were simply blowing their own trumpet and saying what a great job of the vaccine rollout they were doing, nobody would even bat an eyelid.

It's the fact that they are doing it at the EU's expense that is grating : "We are doing a fantastic job, whilst the corrupt / evil / incompetent EU are a shambles and are trying to steal our vaccines. This proves we were right all along to Brexit". This is just Grade A propaganda and gaslighting.

Most countries are quite open with what vaccines they have had delivered, and what has been distributed. If it wasn't for the AZ pause and check and the EU export licence, we would have never known how little domestic production has in the UK.

Their prized horse they bet on (AZ) has delivered less than 10% of their order.
Pfizer on the other had has delivered ~40% of their order.
I think the EU Pfizer plants may have actually produced more doses than American plants also. Then again the US are only supplying a market of 320mil, the EU plants are supplying a market of 7.3bil.

Ted_YNWA · 20-03-2021 03:58AM

McGiver wrote: »

So whom do we have here on this thread, excellent company, indeed.

- Brexiter trolls trumpeting the BJ regime propaganda (you don't deserve any comments)

- English immigrants naively, perhaps unintentionally, falling for the same propaganda (start reading quality publications please)

- Eurosceptics bashing the EU for "slow rollout" (see South Africa, Brazil, Australia and Canada for definition of "slow")

- Europhobes paranoid about a hypothetical federal EU calling for more EU federalism (absolutely brilliant!)

In terms of the AZ vaccine - EU lawsuit and arbitration in Den Hague is coming next. I'd cancel any remaining AZ order and refocus on working with Pfizer, JJ and CureVac to increase supply, which they're already working on anyway.

Mod

You forgot people who can discuss a topic on both sides of a debate in a mature & civil manner.

You are just posting in an inflammatory manner & have been made aware of this, which you ignored.

Threadbanned

20-03-2021 07:13AM

Strazdas wrote: »

If the British media and public were simply blowing their own trumpet and saying what a great job of the vaccine rollout they were doing, nobody would even bat an eyelid.

It's the fact that they are doing it at the EU's expense that is grating : "We are doing a fantastic job, whilst the corrupt / evil / incompetent EU are a shambles and are trying to steal our vaccines. This proves we were right all along to Brexit". This is just Grade A propaganda and gaslighting.

This has to be one of the most ironic posts on this entire thread.

Tippbhoy1 · 20-03-2021 07:32AM

Strazdas wrote: »

If the British media and public were simply blowing their own trumpet and saying what a great job of the vaccine rollout they were doing, nobody would even bat an eyelid.

It's the fact that they are doing it at the EU's expense that is grating : "We are doing a fantastic job, whilst the corrupt / evil / incompetent EU are a shambles and are trying to steal our vaccines. This proves we were right all along to Brexit". This is just Grade A propaganda and gaslighting.

Yep, this is it in a nutshell.
Unfortunately the lying media machine in the UK have a lot to answer for in this, amongst a lot of things in the UK. Shades of 1930’s Germany about their propaganda machine at this point. In fairness you feel sorry for the half of the population who actually know what’s going on. India are getting a bit of an easier ride at the minute than the EU for “stealing” the UK vaccines but Boris is going over there to beg for a trade deal in a few months so has to try stay on side there. It’s getting to the point that the non Oxford dictionaries will have a picture of John Bull beside the word hypocrite in years to come.

robinph · 20-03-2021 08:22AM

The only mention of anything even vaguely Brexit related in the last weeks news was to do with various cigarette manufacturers saying they would no longer supply NI because they couldn't be bothered to print three different versions of their packets, one for Eng/ Sco/ Wal, another for Ireland and another for NI.

But even those reports didn't actually mention Brexit, just the specific NI protocol.

Nobody has been mentioning Brexit in relation to vaccine roll out in the serious media, but if you go looking for something offensive in red tops it's probably a different story. But nobody buys or reads those papers, except the posters on here apparently who are looking for something to be offended by.

As for why the UK is interested in what is going on in the rest of Europe, it may have escaped your attention, but lots of people within Europe tend to know lots of other people around Europe, be related to other people around Europe and live and travel to other places around Europe... So its of interest if your friends/ family/ next holiday are going to be affected by whatever is going on. Not going to apologise for being interested in how other parts of the world are doing with dealing with the virus and the vaccines.

Tippbhoy1 · 20-03-2021 09:02AM

robinph wrote: »

The only mention of anything even vaguely Brexit related in the last weeks news was to do with various cigarette manufacturers saying they would no longer supply NI because they couldn't be bothered to print three different versions of their packets, one for Eng/ Sco/ Wal, another for Ireland and another for NI.

But even those reports didn't actually mention Brexit, just the specific NI protocol.

Nobody has been mentioning Brexit in relation to vaccine roll out in the serious media, but if you go looking for something offensive in red tops it's probably a different story. But nobody buys or reads those papers, except the posters on here apparently who are looking for something to be offended by.

As for why the UK is interested in what is going on in the rest of Europe, it may have escaped your attention, but lots of people within Europe tend to know lots of other people around Europe, be related to other people around Europe and live and travel to other places around Europe... So its of interest if your friends/ family/ next holiday are going to be affected by whatever is going on. Not going to apologise for being interested in how other parts of the world are doing with dealing with the virus and the vaccines.

It’s convenient for people to sweep away a whole section of British press and what they say under the carpet by saying no one reads them. This allows the basis of any complaints about it to be ignored, thereby providing equilibrium again in ones beliefs.

It is of course not true as they have millions of circulation. And that’s just the physical papers. If the latter is acknowledged, then some shred of responsibility would have to be taken as a nation, but that would be an inconvenient truth.

20-03-2021 09:17AM

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

Yep, this is it in a nutshell.
Unfortunately the lying media machine in the UK have a lot to answer for in this, amongst a lot of things in the UK. Shades of 1930’s Germany about their propaganda machine at this point. In fairness you feel sorry for the half of the population who actually know what’s going on. India are getting a bit of an easier ride at the minute than the EU for “stealing” the UK vaccines but Boris is going over there to beg for a trade deal in a few months so has to try stay on side there. It’s getting to the point that the non Oxford dictionaries will have a picture of John Bull beside the word hypocrite in years to come.

Nothing like a good old fashioned piece of begrudgery first thing in the morning.

astrofool · 20-03-2021 01:17PM

I think one thing that will happen with AstraZeneca is that future statements made by their CEO, Pascal Soriot, will be put into the same bin as those previously made by Kayleigh McEnany of trumper infamy.

NeuralNetwork · 20-03-2021 01:51PM

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

It’s convenient for people to sweep away a whole section of British press and what they say under the carpet by saying no one reads them. This allows the basis of any complaints about it to be ignored, thereby providing equilibrium again in ones beliefs.

It is of course not true as they have millions of circulation. And that’s just the physical papers. If the latter is acknowledged, then some shred of responsibility would have to be taken as a nation, but that would be an inconvenient truth.

The “red tops” despite spewing absolute bile, nationalistic nonsense, political agendas, alternative facts blended with a bit of sensational gossip, are used as jumping off points for media and debate generally in the U.K.

So much British broadcast media will spend time reviewing what the headlines in “the papers” are or previews of same, and seem often to give equal weight to the Daily Express, the Guardian, the Daily Mail and the Financial Times.

There’s a huge problem with the tabloid print media in the U.K. and it is exactly in parallel to the problem with Fox News & Newsmax etc in the United States, but it has been around for a lot longer.

It’s also woven into U.K. politics in a very unhealthy way, with newspapers not reporting facts, or commenting but actually engaging in blatant and aggressive campaigns and behaving almost like unofficial political parties.

It’s not normal in most developed democracies, including this one and it is hugely destabilising, yet it is so much part of Britain’s political culture that it has been normalised.

When you add the modern reality of social media, it has amplified the tabloid media enormously too and they are a huge source of social media influence.

Tabloids regularly set the political agenda in the U.K. and the parties both play to them and live in fear of their wrath too.

So to say they’ve bo reach or no influence on debate in the U.K. is patently nonsense.

Nqp15hhu · 20-03-2021 01:57PM

robinph wrote: »

The only mention of anything even vaguely Brexit related in the last weeks news was to do with various cigarette manufacturers saying they would no longer supply NI because they couldn't be bothered to print three different versions of their packets, one for Eng/ Sco/ Wal, another for Ireland and another for NI.

But even those reports didn't actually mention Brexit, just the specific NI protocol.

Nobody has been mentioning Brexit in relation to vaccine roll out in the serious media, but if you go looking for something offensive in red tops it's probably a different story. But nobody buys or reads those papers, except the posters on here apparently who are looking for something to be offended by.

As for why the UK is interested in what is going on in the rest of Europe, it may have escaped your attention, but lots of people within Europe tend to know lots of other people around Europe, be related to other people around Europe and live and travel to other places around Europe... So its of interest if your friends/ family/ next holiday are going to be affected by whatever is going on. Not going to apologise for being interested in how other parts of the world are doing with dealing with the virus and the vaccines.

Why would anyone mention negative news? Do you want the United Kingdom to always look poor, are you threatened by a successful U.K.?

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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