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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • #7442
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hamburgham wrote: »
    Is it possible to say the type of things they’ve done wrong? Just curious.

    Lack of vaccinator training.
    Vaccines in eearlier stages were over ordered where you get a situtation like the one in the Coombe.
    Absolute terrible communication between primary and secondary care.

    It might astound you that inpatient care is probably better in Ireland than the UK.

    Where we fall down is information transfer between primary and secondary care.

    This should get better as we develop better IT systems.


  • #7443
    ypres5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    Keyzer wrote: »
    Not hair-brained. The decision was taken to temporarily suspend the AZ vaccine based on reports of it potentially causing blood clots in a small number of cases.

    Other countries (Sweden, Latvia, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Denmark, Norway and The Netherlands) also took this approach.

    I would assume it will be reinstated fairly sharpish.

    On a personal level, my 80 year old father suffers from blood clots and was scheduled to get AZ vaccine this week. Had he received it, given his underlying medical condition, it could have potentially killed him.

    Thankkfully, he will be getting a different vaccine.

    the decision to suspend the vaccine in eu countries was political, the ema and WHO all but begged them to reinstate the vaccine asap. we've wasted nearly a week of vaccinations on this petty nonsense


  • #7444
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    Keyzer wrote: »
    Not hair-brained. The decision was taken to temporarily suspend the AZ vaccine based on reports of it potentially causing blood clots in a small number of cases.

    Other countries (Sweden, Latvia, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Denmark, Norway and The Netherlands) also took this approach.

    I would assume it will be reinstated fairly sharpish.

    On a personal level, my 80 year old father suffers from blood clots and was scheduled to get AZ vaccine this week. Had he received it, given his underlying medical condition, it could have potentially killed him.

    Thankkfully, he will be getting a different vaccine.

    There's practically zero chance of anyone below the age of 65 or 70 dying from this virus.
    Nobody in their teens twenties thirties or forties needs this vaccine at all.
    Yet the economy is shut down hundreds of thousands on pup and driven mad by idleness.
    Country is rotting. The city centre and town centres around the country are ghost towns.

    A few misfits turned out to protest yesterday while beauty spots beaches parks etc the length and breadth of the country were packed out yesterday but nobody could get a drink or a meal or socialize properly? People have been queuing in the wind and rain all winter and complaining but none of them are protesting?

    NPHET set a threshold for 200 cases a day which they will obviously lower to keep the lockdown going. The vaccinations were painfully slow but have now effectively stopped.

    We are going to be locked down this winter and the sheep will just go along with it as before.


  • #7445
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    ypres5 wrote: »
    the decision to suspend the vaccine in eu countries was political, the ema and WHO all but begged them to reinstate the vaccine asap. we've wasted nearly a week of vaccinations on this petty nonsense

    Citation?

    Why would Norway and Denmark pause parts of their vaccination program for politics?


  • #7446
    ypres5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    There's practically zero chance of anyone below the age of 65 or 70 dying from this virus.
    Nobody in their teens twenties thirties or forties needs this vaccine at all.
    Yet the economy is shut down hundreds of thousands on pup and driven mad by idleness.
    Country is rotting. The city centre and town centres around the country are ghost towns.

    A few misfits turned out to protest yesterday while beauty spots beaches parks etc the length and breadth of the country were packed out yesterday but nobody could get a drink or a meal or socialize properly? People have been queuing in the wind and rain all winter and complaining but none of them are protesting?

    NPHET set a threshold for 200 cases a day which they will obviously lower to keep the lockdown going. The vaccinations were painfully slow but have now effectively stopped.

    We are going to be locked down this winter and the sheep will just go along with it as before.

    exactly the eu have also obliterated public confidence in the az vaccine when it was already struggling in europe with people feeling it's an unsafe inferior vaccine. it's a mess all around


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  • #7447
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    There's practically zero chance of anyone below the age of 65 or 70 dying from this virus.
    Nobody in their teens twenties thirties or forties needs this vaccine at all.
    Yet the economy is shut down hundreds of thousands on pup and driven mad by idleness.
    Country is rotting. The city centre and town centres around the country are ghost towns.

    A few misfits turned out to protest yesterday while beauty spots beaches parks etc the length and breadth of the country were packed out yesterday but nobody could get a drink or a meal or socialize properly? People have been queuing in the wind and rain all winter and complaining but none of them are protesting?

    NPHET set a threshold for 200 cases a day which they will obviously lower to keep the lockdown going. The vaccinations were painfully slow but have now effectively stopped.

    We are going to be locked down this winter and the sheep will just go along with it as before.

    Mod

    The highlighted section is not a statement of opinion, its a statement of fact. Given there are publicly published statistics of the amount of people in the age groups you have talked about who have died, i would ask you to reconsider posting your opinions as facts; lest it be misconstrued as trolling. The same goes for others as well.

    Source on those stats: https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-covid19/covid-19informationhub/health/covid-19deathsandcasesstatistics/


  • #7448
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ypres5 wrote: »
    the decision to suspend the vaccine in eu countries was political, the ema and WHO all but begged them to reinstate the vaccine asap. we've wasted nearly a week of vaccinations on this petty nonsense

    The issue has to be investigated and proven not to be an issue. This was not a political issue (and framing as such is disingenious).

    More important than the roll out of the vaccine is patient safety.

    Anybody who works in healthcare knows that patient safety always come first.

    There are some caveats such as compassionate use of medications that are decided on a patient specific basis.

    Given the concerns at the time, it was worthwhile investigating the issue.

    I believe that there isn't a excess risk between developing VTE and taking the vaccine but at same time that is only my personal professional opinion. I haven't devoured all the data to be able to say definitively it is safe.

    If the AZ vaccine roll out was continued and it was proven to increase risk of VTE, it would have given the anti-vaxxers so much ammunition.

    Dare I say it but some posters in here would be delighted if there were trust/safety issues with the vaccine.

    Hence why it was the right decision (at the time) to investigate the issue.


  • #7449
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    Nobody in their teens twenties thirties or forties needs this vaccine at all.

    Why do you think nobody in this age bracket needs the vaccine?

    What about people with cystic fibrosis, immunocompromised people etc?

    The vaccine needs to administered to everybody who is able to take it.


  • #7450
    Keyzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    ypres5 wrote: »
    The decision to suspend the vaccine in eu countries was political.

    How do you know this?

    Are you saying the decision from multiple countries who put a temporary block on the use of the AZ vaccine was not based on concerns it could potentially cause blood clots?

    If so, you are saying this was a political decision made by approximately 12 countries?

    What were they hoping to achieve. Please, enlighten me.


  • #7451
    rob316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,734 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Trailing behind a cop car yesterday and they pretty much shouted at every youngish person with a bottle wine or cans where they were going. People just minding their own business, been interrogated. I'm so ****ing sick of this, our county (cork) had 10 cases yesterday and 6 people in hospital.


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  • #7452
    KanyeSouthEast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭KanyeSouthEast


    rob316 wrote: »
    Trailing behind a cop car yesterday and they pretty much shouted at every youngish person with a bottle wine or cans where they were going. People just minding their own business, been interrogated. I'm so ****ing sick of this, our county (cork) had 10 cases yesterday and 6 people in hospital.

    Stay safe stay at home.


  • #7453
    ypres5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The issue has to be investigated and proven not to be an issue. This was not a political issue (and framing as such is disingenious).

    More important than the roll out of the vaccine is patient safety.

    Anybody who works in healthcare knows that patient safety always come first.

    There are some caveats such as compassionate use of medications that are decided on a patient specific basis.

    Given the concerns at the time, it was worthwhile investigating the issue.

    I believe that there isn't a excess risk between developing VTE and taking the vaccine but at same time that is only my personal professional opinion. I haven't devoured all the data to be able to say definitively it is safe.

    If the AZ vaccine roll out was continued and it was proven to increase risk of VTE, it would have given the anti-vaxxers so much ammunition.

    Dare I say it but some posters in here would be delighted if there were trust/safety issues with the vaccine.

    Hence why it was the right decision (at the time) to investigate the issue.

    Sorry but the suspension was politically motivated the eu ignored the WHO and EMA and essentially went rogue. there was no evidence to back their decision to suspend the jab and once germany made the call then other nations just folded and copied them

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/world/europe/europe-astrazeneca-vaccine-suspensions.amp.html


  • #7454
    rob316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,734 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    KanyeSouthEast wrote: »
    Stay safe stay at home.

    Stay safe, Stay off the keyboard and get back under your bed.


  • #7455
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ypres5 wrote: »
    Sorry but the suspension was politically motivated the eu ignored the WHO and EMA and essentially went rogue. there was no evidence to back their decision to suspend the jab and once germany made the call then other nations just folded and copied them

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/world/europe/europe-astrazeneca-vaccine-suspensions.amp.html

    So you are saying that the germans followed Ireland/Norway's lead? Are Norway in the EU?


  • #7456
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    ypres5 wrote: »
    Sorry but the suspension was politically motivated the eu ignored the WHO and EMA and essentially went rogue.

    Norway are not in the EU.

    But again you need to explain why countries like Norway would suspend parts of their vaccination program to play politics?


  • #7457
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Keyzer wrote: »
    How do you know this?

    Are you saying the decision from multiple countries who put a temporary block on the use of the AZ vaccine was not based on concerns it could potentially cause blood clots?

    If so, you are saying this was a political decision made by approximately 12 countries?

    What were they hoping to achieve. Please, enlighten me.

    It was political purely in the sense that governments wanted a definitive review of potential issues to give political cover rather than statements made without out reviewing the latest observations in detail. They don't want another Pandemrix, and today should have their answer.


    Incidentally the level of narcolepsy with pandemrix was actually lower in those who received the vaccine than those who had swine flu. However by not getting ahead of the initial reports they allowed the issue to spiral out of control


  • #7458
    RGS
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 787 ✭✭✭RGS


    ypres5 wrote: »
    Sorry but the suspension was politically motivated the eu ignored the WHO and EMA and essentially went rogue. there was no evidence to back their decision to suspend the jab and once germany made the call then other nations just folded and copied them

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/world/europe/europe-astrazeneca-vaccine-suspensions.amp.html

    Countries outside the EU also suspended using the AZ vaccine.


    It may have been over cautious but it was the right decision based on the potential risk. This country is a litigation hotbed and if something went wrong the state were on the hook for compensation.


    Hopefully the all clear will issue today and we can get AZ vaccine moving again.


  • #7459
    ypres5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So you are saying that the germans followed Ireland's lead?

    no where did i say that? can you please not put words in my mouth


  • #7460
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,655 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    rob316 wrote: »
    Trailing behind a cop car yesterday and they pretty much shouted at every youngish person with a bottle wine or cans where they were going. People just minding their own business, been interrogated. I'm so ****ing sick of this, our county (cork) had 10 cases yesterday and 6 people in hospital.

    It’s been a rapid descent into a form of police state that doesn’t seem like it’s going to change any time soon.

    I don’t see what going to change in Ireland in the next few months

    The only way out is when the exchequer can’t pay the wages of public sector employees


  • #7461
    Sobit1964
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Sobit1964


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It was political purely in the sense that governments wanted a definitive review of potential issues to give political cover rather than statements made without out reviewing the latest observations in detail. They don't want another Pandemrix, and today should have their answer.


    Incidentally the level of narcolepsy with pandemrix was actually lower in those who received the vaccine than those who had swine flu. However by not getting ahead of the initial reports they allowed the issue to spiral out of control

    The flip side to this is damage is caused to the public's perception of this vaccine - this is very noticable on the continent.

    It also played into the antivax crowds hands and that's not a good thing.

    Tough situation.


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  • #7462
    Keyzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    ypres5 wrote: »
    Sorry but the suspension was politically motivated the eu ignored the WHO and EMA and essentially went rogue. there was no evidence to back their decision to suspend the jab and once germany made the call then other nations just folded and copied them

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/world/europe/europe-astrazeneca-vaccine-suspensions.amp.html

    I read that article - it doesn't provide any concrete or factual evidence that the decisions made by these countries were politically based. It just repeatedly says "it may have been political".

    I get people are pissed off. I had one of my worst weeks last week in terms of mental health. Really down. And I get that the government are doing a p1ss poor job at planning and making risk based decisions to open up parts of society.

    But...

    Coming out with borderline delusional statements that vaccine rollouts were stopped due to political reasons and, as someone else said, there is practically zero chance anyone under the age of 65 is going to die from this and that people under this age don't need a vaccine...

    These statements are incorrect and misleading.


  • #7463
    ypres5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    Keyzer wrote: »
    How do you know this?

    Are you saying the decision from multiple countries who put a temporary block on the use of the AZ vaccine was not based on concerns it could potentially cause blood clots?

    If so, you are saying this was a political decision made by approximately 12 countries?

    What were they hoping to achieve. Please, enlighten me.

    i think it was a failed attempt to exert pressure on astrazeneca to try and increase the doses sent to eu countries. it's not news to anyone that the eu are currently floundering with the vaccine rollout and between italy taking australian doses and a suspension of az jabs to export outside eu it seems like they'll attempt anything to be seen to be doing something about it


  • #7464
    ypres5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    Keyzer wrote: »
    I read that article - it doesn't provide any concrete or factual evidence that the decisions made by these countries were politically based. It just repeatedly says "it may have been political".

    I get people are pissed off. I had one of my worst weeks last week in terms of mental health. Really down. And I get that the government are doing a p1ss poor job at planning and making risk based decisions to open up parts of society.

    But...

    Coming out with borderline delusional statements that vaccine rollouts were stopped due to political reasons and, as someone else said, there is practically zero chance anyone under the age of 65 is going to die from this and that people under this age don't need a vaccine...

    These statements are incorrect and misleading.

    why did these countries ignore the WHO and EMA then? that's the antithesis of following the science. the eu have since received criticism for their decision from several bodies so it's not like I'm making it up


  • #7465
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ypres5 wrote: »
    no where did i say that? can you please not put words in my mouth

    You said the EU as a political organization, not the medicine regulator.


  • #7466
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ypres5 wrote: »
    why did these countries ignore the WHO and EMA then? that's the antithesis of following the science. the eu have since received criticism for their decision from several bodies so it's not like I'm making it up

    I don't know what you are talking about regarding the EMA. Their official investigation is only been announced today with results and judgment.


  • #7467
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sobit1964 wrote: »
    The flip side to this is damage is caused to the public's perception of this vaccine - this is very noticable on the continent.

    It also played into the antivax crowds hands and that's not a good thing.

    Tough situation.

    What the antivax crowd pray on is an absence of information. The chinese whispers of "blood clots" etc. would circulate uncontrolled in the absence of addressing the issue. By getting out and saying, yes, we got those reports, we took action, reviewed that data and concluded no additional risk, all but those likely to be against vaccination in the first place will retain confidence


  • #7468
    ypres5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I don't know what you are talking about regarding the EMA. Their official investigation is only been announced today with results and judgment.

    and what does that have to do with norway or germany copying ireland? did you read the wrong post or something


  • #7469
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ypres5 wrote: »
    i think it was a failed attempt to exert pressure on astrazeneca to try and increase the doses sent to eu countries. it's not news to anyone that the eu are currently floundering with the vaccine rollout and between italy taking australian doses and a suspension of az jabs to export outside eu it seems like they'll attempt anything to be seen to be doing something about it

    So you are saying that the EU decided they would get more AZ vaccines if they suspended the use of them?

    I really don't understand your angle here. It was a medication safety issue. It happens all the time. The EMA statement will be released today.


  • #7470
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ypres5 wrote: »
    and what does that have to do with norway or germany copying ireland? did you read the wrong post or something

    Show me a statement from the EMA that says that the AZ vaccine is safe from the point of view/ concerns about VTE?

    Also, no idea what you are talking about quoting posts. I was quoting post where you suggested the EMA was begging the EU to restart AZ vaccinations.


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  • #7471
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    ypres5 wrote: »
    i think it was a failed attempt to exert pressure on astrazeneca to try and increase the doses sent to eu countries. it's not news to anyone that the eu are currently floundering with the vaccine rollout and between italy taking australian doses and a suspension of az jabs to export outside eu it seems like they'll attempt anything to be seen to be doing something about it

    So the likes of Norway (not in the EU) have manufactured a false safety concern over a vaccine in order to acquire more doses of that vaccine? You do see a problem with that don't you?

    I mean, as conspiracy theories go, that is a pretty shít one isn't it?


This discussion has been closed.
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