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RTÉ to cease radio transmission on DAB network

124678

Comments

  • #152
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,402 ✭✭✭plodder


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think this is a stupid idea from RTÉ. I only use DAB in my car I do not use internet stations while driving nor will I start.
    From what I can see, DAB was more about squeezing more channels into the available space, than about a better listening experience. It doesn't have any advantages to the listener over FM with RDS, which any DAB car radio already has.

    While I think the technology is basically unusable for the majority of people at the moment, internet (car) radio will improve and that's where you'll have to go if you want more choice.


  • #153
    brandonviewer
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭brandonviewer


    Hurrache wrote: »
    I was, as someone said Google is more friendly than Alexa and I was just showing how easy it is on Alexa, whereas you're showing the opposite, Google seems to be a bit of a pain.

    For anyone trying to access red fm on alexa, just say " alexa, play Corks Red fm from tune in" and you're sorted.


  • #154
    Cube98
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭Cube98


    radioguru02 wrote: »
    Don’t suppose you recorded it?

    Here is the visual version of it https://mobile.twitter.com/RTEGold/status/1366799040302710789


  • #155
    Declan A Walsh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭Declan A Walsh


    Different thread, same subject, Merge the two together?
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058028816&page=15
    https://forumofgames.com/




  • #156
    Cube98
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭Cube98


    I think people are misguided to think Beaur will be interested in bringing DAB here, wireless are already here and have done nothing for DAB, even though like Beaur they are very active on it over in Britain. I think dropping remaining talk from Today FM and fully merging Spin 1038 and Spin South west is going to be the main things on their agenda.


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  • #157
    Andy454
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭Andy454


    Why wouldn’t they be interested, they’d be the only broadcaster on the system, with pretty much a captive audience. Mosst HiFi’s and car stereos sold in the last 15 years have a DAB tuner.

    Lidl is still selling DAB only radios - I saw five sets there yesterday.


  • #158
    JDxtra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    Andy454 wrote: »
    Why wouldn’t they be interested, they’d be the only broadcaster on the system, with pretty much a captive audience. Mosst HiFi’s and car stereos sold in the last 15 years have a DAB tuner.

    Lidl is still selling DAB only radios - I saw five sets there yesterday.

    Not in Ireland, for many new cars sold here DAB is not included. Wife has a 201 car... no DAB. I enquired about, it was an option only. Car was high spec, not the base model.


  • #159
    JDxtra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    Reality is it's FM and streaming for radio/music in Ireland. There's no place for DAB, it's 15 years too late to do anything about it.


  • #160
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Andy454 wrote: »
    Why wouldn’t they be interested, they’d be the only broadcaster on the system, with pretty much a captive audience. Mosst HiFi’s and car stereos sold in the last 15 years have a DAB tuner.

    Lidl is still selling DAB only radios - I saw five sets there yesterday.

    It's the exact opposite of a captive audience. Every radio that has DAB also has FM. Everyone has a smartphone with 10,000 Internet stations. Every DAB listener has infinite choices to go elsewhere at no extra cost or hassle, that is not a captive audience.

    I don't believe Lidl were selling DAB only radios. Everyone who bought one would be coming back for a refund.


  • #161
    Lord Nelson
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Lord Nelson


    JDxtra wrote: »
    Not in Ireland, for many new cars sold here DAB is not included. Wife has a 201 car... no DAB. I enquired about, it was an option only. Car was high spec, not the base model.

    Since December under EU regulations, all new cars in member countries must be DAB enabled to allow motorists to access services across Europe. In normal times there are around 110,000 new cars sold in Ireland annually with another 80,000 second hand imports. Most of these come from the UK and the majority have DAB. In theory, there could be close to one million cars on the road within five years with access to DAB. That's a significant market opportunity one would think?


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  • #162
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Former Former Former wrote: »
    It's the exact opposite of a captive audience. Every radio that has DAB also has FM. Everyone has a smartphone with 10,000 Internet stations. Every DAB listener has infinite choices to go elsewhere at no extra cost or hassle, that is not a captive audience.


    Internet streaming is more hassle than just turning on your radio and Internet service providers charge for data, so there is cost.

    FM is fine, but I at least listen to RTÉ Gold and it is not on FM.


  • #163
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Internet streaming is more hassle than just turning on your radio and Internet service providers charge for data, so there is cost.

    FM is fine, but I at least listen to RTÉ Gold and it is not on FM.

    1. Internet streaming is a little bit of hassle, but not so much hassle that people won't do it.
    2. Most people are on plans that have plenty of data allowance, and there's WiFi. Cost isn't a factor.
    3. Rté gold is great but it too is available through other means so again, no captive audience.


  • #164
    Cube98
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭Cube98


    Lord Nelson wrote: »
    Since December under EU regulations, all new cars in member countries must be DAB enabled to allow motorists to access services across Europe. In normal times there are around 110,000 new cars sold in Ireland annually with another 80,000 second hand imports. Most of these come from the UK and the majority have DAB. In theory, there could be close to one million cars on the road within five years with access to DAB. That's a significant market opportunity one would think?

    Every single Car on Irish roads the past 30 years has had a radio with Medium Wave, Ireland has a load of unused medium wave frequencies, nobody ever thought that was a missed opportunity.


  • #165
    Cube98
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭Cube98


    Andy454 wrote: »
    Most HiFi’s and car stereos sold in the last 15 years have a DAB tuner..

    Let's not get carried away.


  • #166
    JDxtra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    Lord Nelson wrote: »
    Since December under EU regulations, all new cars in member countries must be DAB enabled to allow motorists to access services across Europe. In normal times there are around 110,000 new cars sold in Ireland annually with another 80,000 second hand imports. Most of these come from the UK and the majority have DAB. In theory, there could be close to one million cars on the road within five years with access to DAB. That's a significant market opportunity one would think?

    Agree - but it's too late for DAB to make any inroads. FM is "good enough" for most, and if anyone wants anything more it's apps/bluetooth.

    Nobody is going to walk into a car showroom and ask about DAB now, or even in a few years time if we ever get any services. They will ask how can my phone connect to my car.

    With Apple Carplay and Android Auto it's so easy these days, even totally wireless in some cases. That's the way the market is going.


  • #167
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Cube98 wrote: »
    Every single Car on Irish roads the past 30 years has had a radio with Medium Wave, Ireland has a load of unused medium wave frequencies, nobody ever thought that was a missed opportunity.

    realistically medium wave is a very very different beast to dab+, and has been on the decline really for a couple of decades, therefore your attempt to use it as part of this discussion, just like all the other times you have tried it, doesn't work as both are extremely far apart in terms of differences.
    Cube98 wrote: »
    Let's not get carried away.


    not sure how your statement has anything to do with what he stated? is what he stated fact or not?
    if it is, then stating a fact isn't getting carried away, it's stating a fact.
    if it's not, then him stating something is simply incorrect.
    is he incorrect or is he correct in relation to the statement he has made?

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • #168
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    has there been any indication for how much cutting DAB is saving RTE per year?

    Even if the listening figures are low are we talking the savings of like 100k a year or 10m a year?


  • #169
    kazoo106
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    About €4730 in electricity costs per year for the 5 sites

    Cant really think of any other costs - maintenance perhaps, but they've never really done much of that to the DAB network


  • #170
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    amazing if they turn it off over that kind of money


  • #171
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Costs might not be massive right now, but after many years of 'trials', RTE would eventually have to either scale it up to a proper nationwide service, launch a public awareness campaign and commit long-term to the platform... or pull the plug.

    In that context, it's a no-brainer to switch it off.


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  • #172
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    The whole thing is typically Irish failure of public policy. 50c from the licence fee would probably fund the DAB network for all time. Not everyone would use it all the time, but it would be a resource. Now you'll have people buying smart speakers and data plans and mobile companies upgrading networks at far greater cost.


  • #173
    Andy454
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭Andy454


    It is illegal to hold or touch a phone while driving and I have yet to meet a car with a decent enough user interface that can properly select streaming stations.

    Using the talk button on the steering wheel to activate Siri and request a track rarely works correctly.

    The DAB service switch off saving is penny pitching to the extreme by a network that is plagued with bigger issues and should have bigger fish to fry....


  • #174
    Antenna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,330 ✭✭✭Antenna


    kazoo106 wrote: »
    About €4730 in electricity costs per year for the 5 sites

    Cant really think of any other costs - maintenance perhaps, but they've never really done much of that to the DAB network

    2rn couldn't just charge 'cost price' to RTE (its parent company) for its DAB as in effect other broadcasters that use 2rn (Today FM, Newstalk, VM and others) would be unhappy by in effect subsidising RTE's DAB.
    They have to be seen as treating all broadcast customers equally in terms of costings and service levels etc, so a far different situation from the Century Radio scenario many years ago.


  • #175
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Andy454 wrote:
    It is illegal to hold or touch a phone while driving and I have yet to meet a car with a decent enough user interface that can properly select streaming stations.


    Yet I have a button on my car screen for RTÉ Gold.




    Antenna wrote: »
    2rn couldn't just charge 'cost price' to RTE (its parent company) for its DAB as in effect other broadcasters that use 2rn (Today FM, Newstalk, VM and others) would be unhappy by in effect subsidising RTE's DAB.
    They have to be seen as treating all broadcast customers equally in terms of costings and service levels etc, so a far different situation from the Century Radio scenario many years ago.


    The broadcasting infrastructure, from DAB to Saorsat should be a distinctly funded service with a marginal pricing approach to individual services.


  • #176
    lertsnim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,804 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    Andy454 wrote: »
    It is illegal to hold or touch a phone while driving and I have yet to meet a car with a decent enough user interface that can properly select streaming stations.

    Saying "Hey Google, play RTÉ Gold" works for me.


  • #177
    KildareP
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭KildareP


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    has there been any indication for how much cutting DAB is saving RTE per year?

    Even if the listening figures are low are we talking the savings of like 100k a year or 10m a year?

    If you look at it in isolation at what it costs today versus what you have in your pocket tomorrow if it's all shutdown, then the savings are tiny.

    When you look at what you'd need to continue forward with DAB, it's only broadcast from 5 sites currently, versus ~20 main sites along with ~20 more "filler" sites for equivalent national FM coverage.

    To the best of my knowledge the current 5 sites are still on their original mid-2000-era transmitters so you're effectively looking at starting over, minimum of 20 sites to fit out and even then you'll still have significant blackspots.

    Balance this against the extremely low overall listenership of DAB today, very dated nature of the DAB platform, total lack of interest from elsewhere in the industry, our extremely small population to commercially support an extensive network of stations, added with ever-increasing competition from advancements in online streaming (both live and via the likes of Spotify, Apple Music, Youtube) and changes in listener habits (smart speakers, Carplay/Android Auto)... it's hard to justify continuing with DAB.

    Or to go back to the savings question, it's a lot of money RTÉ doesn't have to come up with in the near future for minimum identifiable return.


  • #178
    Andy454
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭Andy454


    Former Former Former wrote: »
    1. Internet streaming is a little bit of hassle, but not so much hassle that people won't do it.
    2. Most people are on plans that have plenty of data allowance, and there's WiFi. Cost isn't a factor.
    3. Rté gold is great but it too is available through other means so again, no captive audience.

    If you are internet streaming already, you are listening to something other than Rte...


  • #179
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Andy454 wrote: »
    If you are internet streaming already, you are listening to something other than Rte...

    But your point was that it's a captive audience. You've just proved that it's the opposite, the audience for broadcasting has never been less captive.


  • #180
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Andy454 wrote: »
    I have yet to meet a car with a decent enough user interface that can properly select streaming stations.

    Like the posters said, Android Auto fits the bill, not sure about Apple as I haven't used that as I don't have an iPhone but likely is similar.


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  • #181
    kazoo106
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    Just noticing

    Stereo on RTE Gold on Saorview is the opposite way around to DAB

    Now in this day and age I would not have thought that anything analog should be in the audio chain !!!


  • #182
    KildareP
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭KildareP


    kazoo106 wrote: »
    Just noticing

    Stereo on RTE Gold on Saorview is the opposite way around to DAB

    Now in this day and age I would not have thought that anything analog should be in the audio chain !!!
    With RTÉ, who knows! :)

    Then again, quite a number of Dublin stations are guilty of operating reversed stereo channels for many, many years, or having analogue distortion present on their audio (Communicorp, looking at you!! :p)


  • #183
    yrreg0850
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 531 ✭✭✭yrreg0850


    Antenna wrote: »
    2rn couldn't just charge 'cost price' to RTE (its parent company) for its DAB as in effect other broadcasters that use 2rn (Today FM, Newstalk, VM and others) would be unhappy by in effect subsidising RTE's DAB.
    They have to be seen as treating all broadcast customers equally in terms of costings and service levels etc, so a far different situation from the Century Radio scenario many years ago.

    They obviously didn't learn from the mess they made when they privatized Telecom /eir or whatever it is now called.
    There was a situation where Telecom retained the infrastructure and, any other telecomms company who wished to supply a landline telephone service had to deal with telecomm even they were competitors.

    I know of cases where other suppliers were given a limited time slot each week to connect their subscribers to the eircom owned network--so much for competition.


  • #184
    NeuralNetwork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭NeuralNetwork


    iPhone integration is slick where CarPlay is implemented properly.

    Most of the issue is where car makers kept trying to reinvent the wheel with awful touch interfaces that keep trying to tread phones like they’re MP3 players from 2003.

    The car industry dragged its feet on a lot of this stuff by trying to provide software they’re incapable of producing.

    Both Android Auto & Apple Car Play more or less expect the car to just be a dumb display and sound system and the phone does everything.


  • #185
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,402 ✭✭✭plodder


    NeuralNetwork wrote: »
    iPhone integration is slick where CarPlay is implemented properly.

    Most of the issue is where car makers kept trying to reinvent the wheel with awful touch interfaces that keep trying to tread phones like they’re MP3 players from 2003.
    I'm surprised that touch screen interfaces are allowed in cars. They are a safety hazard imo. My wife drives a three year old Opel and it amazes me how much badly implemented technology is in it.
    The car industry dragged its feet on a lot of this stuff by trying to provide software they’re incapable of producing.
    Both Android Auto & Apple Car Play more or less expect the car to just be a dumb display and sound system and the phone does everything.
    I imagine the auto industry isn't happy about losing control of these platforms to the Google and Apple behemoths either, but as you pointed out, the auto industry doesn't have a clue how to write software.


  • #186
    NeuralNetwork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭NeuralNetwork


    From a car manufacturer's point of view, producing a dumb terminal makes far more sense than trying to build complex software.

    I've a 2017 Toyota that has TWITTER on the touch screen. I mean who in their right mind would allow someone to send tweets on the dashboard. It makes no sense.

    It has an ability to install apps, all of which are useless or awful and the interface for the sound system, including the radio is just hideous and it's all touch screen based, which means you can't really do anything without looking at it.

    The only thing that's any good on it is the toggle buttons on the steering wheel and the display on the dashboard itself i.e. on the meter in the middle of the dash.

    The rest is all useless.

    From my point of view in that car, whether its DAB+ or an bluetooth linked smartphone, the car's interface is just diabolical for all of them.

    Basically I end up controlling the music with Siri mostly.


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  • #187
    brandonviewer
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭brandonviewer


    ,perfect timing from Aldi. They are advertising DAB radios for sale next week


  • #188
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,476 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Andy454 wrote: »
    It is illegal to hold or touch a phone while driving

    It's illegal to hold a phone. It's not illegal to touch a phone in a mount - which is no different to touching a touchscreen built into the car.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #189
    Andy454
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭Andy454


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    It's not illegal to touch a phone in a mount .

    As long as you do not become distracted from the road.

    Selecting an internet radio station on your phone involves far more than just swiping to answer a call or pressing a button to hang up.

    On a 2020 car, I can currently move between DAB radio stations by simply flicking a button up and down on the steering wheel this is not the case with streaming from the phone and is fine if you set off with just the station you want set up.

    RSA try to discourage people from phone use while driving, not increase it.

    Based in Maynooth, FM reception is quite poor, there is a lot of dropping out and interference, DAB on the other hand works perfectly.


  • #190
    Widescreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Widescreen


    No doubt they'll lose listeners.

    I think whether it's your connected ipod, pre set FM radio stations or even a loaded cd, most people will select one of those first when driving. Rather than have to select the rte player and your chosen digital station on your phone then have to press couple of times to connect etc.

    I like bbc radio 2 and can listen in my car but how often do I even think of listening to it, not too often as per above reasons.

    Not having DAB is a backward step in my view although I know most people here don't think so.


  • #191
    SPDUB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭SPDUB


    brandonviewer wrote: »
    ,perfect timing from Aldi. They are advertising DAB radios for sale next week

    Trailer for Liveline said there would be an item about shops still selling DAB radio today


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  • #192
    thejuggler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭thejuggler


    "Insidethetent;&#8221 wrote:

    RTE decides to close the DAB network (4/5x transmitters in-situ and one sitting unpowered in a rack) for RTE cost containment. Staff (all paid) remain on payroll, studios remain, transmitters/transmission/links remain.

    .
    Where was the unused transmitter meant to serve? Or was it a spare for backup purposes?


  • #193
    kazoo106
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    Think it was Mullaghanish


  • #194
    Andy454
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭Andy454


    https://www.tvcorner.com/en/audio-video-accessories/radio-tuner/DAB/technisat-bike-Digitradio1.php

    There is still nice DAB radios being developed.
    I note RTE has now returned to profitability, is the switch off still necessary?


  • #195
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,402 ✭✭✭plodder


    brandonviewer wrote: »
    ,perfect timing from Aldi. They are advertising DAB radios for sale next week
    That's gas. https://www.aldi.ie/brown-wooden-dab-%26-fm-radio/p/708839437774400

    Did you hear the one about the wooden DAB radio?

    It wooden work (in Ireland)


  • #196
    Technocentral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    I have a DAB/Internet radio since 2010, the problem with DAB is most people can see and appreciate the quality difference between SD and HD video but not hear the difference between FM and DAB so no incentive to buy and listen to DAB.


  • #197
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,476 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Hilarious

    DAB was not introduced to improve sound quality. Just look at the low bitrates and ancient codecs in use.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #198
    Technocentral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Hilarious

    DAB was not introduced to improve sound quality. Just look at the low bitrates and ancient codecs in use.

    What were the reasons the vast majority of people should have bought DAB receivers then?


  • #199
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Hilarious

    DAB was not introduced to improve sound quality. Just look at the low bitrates and ancient codecs in use.


    that's standard dab, which i think would get universal agreement that it should not be used in ireland, mp2 is a long time passed it's sell by date.dab+ on the other hand does use a much more modern format, mp4.

    the uk which does use standard dab still is slowly moving away from it, the process is slow but it will get there, lots of dab+ services there currently.


    Technocentral wrote: »
    What were the reasons the vast majority of people should have bought DAB receivers then?


    the incentive is generally a greater choice of stations available, that's really why for example, the uk population moved more and more to it.
    the quality argument was only really a thing at the start but has mostly gone as nobody buys that 80k mp2 is quality (all be it thankfully there is a slow move away from standard dab) to dab+.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • #200
    kazoo106
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    On saorview the Bitrate and codec are the same as DAB - 128kb/s Mpeg 48kHz sample rate

    Their webstreams though are horrid - 96kb/s and a 32kHz sample rate


  • #201
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,476 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Technocentral wrote: »
    What were the reasons the vast majority of people should have bought DAB receivers then?

    For the vast majority of people, no reason at all.

    A good FM signal is pretty much as good as analogue audio gets. And it has to get pretty bad before it becomes unlistenable. DAB breaks up and Band III transmitters have much shorter range anyway. The receivers are much more bulky, power hungry and expensive.

    There's the theoretical possibility of more stations, but the FM band isn't full anywhere in Ireland and there is no advertising or funding to provide for more content anyway. That's why the RTE digital stations are still "tests" with no ads run on a shoestring.

    Scrap the cap!



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