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Line between flirting and harrasment?

13567

Comments

  • #62
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    I guess the old hello really will be dead soon.

    Then it will be dating apps where only ladies can make the first move.

    Followed by ladies complaining they always have to make the first move. Then we can die out as a species..



    But in all seriousness - not sure what the expectation is, based on sky news chatting to people, a mentally challenged male killer supported by a female in his endeavours and evil deeds represents all us lads. We all need more education (The lads keep telling me i'm whipped - so I am proper confused).


  • #63
    Mimon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Mimon


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No idea what you're on about.

    Yeh sorry, should keep things simple for you as all complex issues have a simple solution according to you.


  • #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There's no goalpost shifting or massive changes in society.
    It was never OK to grope someone you don't know, to shout obscenities at people in the street, to make lewd remarks to people about their appearance, or to harass and annoy others.

    The fact some people think these are new issues is unbelievable


  • #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,755 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ooook, things are getting a little weird here so I'll leave ye to it.


  • #66
    NomadicGray
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭NomadicGray


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Congratulations on spectacularly missing the expression on her face.

    Once again, you failed to read the signals. No wonder you're getting so bothered by this.

    Without a shadow of a doubt you do not know the context of this picture


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  • #67
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,755 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mimon wrote: »
    Yeh sorry, should keep things simple for you as all complex issues have a simple solution according to you.

    You know you've won an argument when they resort to personal attacks.

    Cheers dude.


  • #68
    Mimon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Mimon


    bubblypop wrote: »
    There's no goalpost shifting or massive changes in society.
    It was never OK to grope someone you don't know, to shout obscenities at people in the street, to make lewd remarks to people about their appearance, or to harass and annoy others.

    The fact some people think these are new issues is unbelievable

    You are missing the point completely. What you say is obvious.


  • #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,946 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    One other thing. Nightclubs really aren't people at their best.

    I couldn't disagree more with ruling out people you work with - excluding a superior/subordinate situation.

    Very few people make meaningful relationships from encounters at a night club. There are exceptions, but it's mainly through school contact, College or Work. So, ruling out Work is not the best advice, especially if you've left the other two behind.

    Respect is 100% required. But, I'm sooooo glad I'm long retired from the dating game.


  • #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mimon wrote: »
    You are missing the point completely. What you say is obvious.

    I would have thought so.
    Reading some Threads on boards this week I'm not so sure


  • #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    May be a crazy "boomer" opinion, but some ladies like to be woo-ed and may reject an initial advance but will be receptive to additional advances.

    Yes, the old ‘hard to get’ philosophy that some ladies had is dead in the water now (and I had female flatmates in college who would do this even if they loved the guy). Additional advances by a guy, after having been knocked back, fall pretty squarely into the harassment category now, and could result in action being taken by the authorities within the workplace or the college (if that is a setting within which it is happening).

    Agree with the initial posters on this thread: one rejection and it’s over


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  • #72
    Mimon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Mimon


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You know you've won an argument when they resort to personal attacks.

    Cheers dude.

    Sorry if it came across like a personal attack.

    You said it is simple, my argument is that it a complex issue and was trying to explain that. I like to simplify things myself but this issue cannot be simplified, it a complex and nuanced one.


  • #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,769 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Different times, but if you followed the advice here I wouldn’t be with my wife of 25 years. Took a bit of time, and persistence to get her number the first night we met. Now, I’d be in the wrong for not leaving it after the first request was turned down.


  • #74
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    nullzero wrote: »
    If she's playing games at that point in proceedings you may strap yourself in for a rocky relationship.


    If you approach a girl you don't know because you find her attractive and she isn't immediately enamoured and a little dismissal, you should abandon all hope?


  • #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FileNotFound wrote: »
    I guess the old hello really will be dead soon.

    Then it will be dating apps where only ladies can make the first move.

    Followed by ladies complaining they always have to make the first move. Then we can die out as a species..



    But in all seriousness - not sure what the expectation is, based on sky news chatting to people, a mentally challenged male killer supported by a female in his endeavours and evil deeds represents all us lads. We all need more education (The lads keep telling me i'm whipped - so I am proper confused).

    If you say hello to a girl and she doesn't immediately consent to intercourse, and then you insist on speaking to her, people will reclaim the streets.

    (*Not my position but listening to some people on here you'd swear that that's how lads are perceived)


  • #76
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,457 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you approach a girl you don't know because you find her attractive and she isn't immediately enamoured and a little dismissal, you should abandon all hope?

    If you approach a stranger and proposition them, if they make it clear to you that they are not interested then you should take that advice on board and believe that when she says she is not interested, she is not interested.

    Pretty simple.


  • #77
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,115 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    bubblypop wrote: »
    There's no goalpost shifting or massive changes in society.
    It was never OK to grope someone you don't know, to shout obscenities at people in the street, to make lewd remarks to people about their appearance, or to harass and annoy others.

    The fact some people think these are new issues is unbelievable


    This in a nutshell is the gas thing about all of this.

    The boomer nonsense,the wanting to go back to better times etc.


    There's an irony somehow in it all of it , that decency and manners that were valued in that era suddenly transformed into being called 'PC' by media commentator's then after a while 'PC' was losing its impact and it transformed to 'Woke' by the same media commentators. They're all the same thing decency and respect for others.


    Marketed as bad by right wing grifters and being swallowed whole by gullible fools who think decency and respect is bad but want to go back to the 40s when things were better......



    Ha


  • #78
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Different times, but if you followed the advice here I wouldn’t be with my wife of 25 years. Took a bit of time, and persistence to get her number the first night we met. Now, I’d be in the wrong for not leaving it after the first request was turned down.

    Me too. Women need to know now that they have to play it straight now

    Been with my partner now 8 years and there is no way, in the current climate, I would have pushed through the nos that I got for answers early on


  • #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    If you approach a stranger and proposition them, if they make it clear to you that they are not interested then you should take that advice on board and believe that when she says she is not interested, she is not interested.

    Pretty simple.

    So if someone offers to buy someone a drink and they say no, anything apart from a complete retreat is unacceptable?

    No more conversation, no more flirting.


  • #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Me too. Women need to know now that they have to play it straight now

    Been with my partner now 8 years and there is no way, in the current climate, I would have pushed through the nos that I got for answers early on

    #metoo


  • #81
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    listermint wrote: »
    This in a nutshell is the gas thing about all of this.

    The boomer nonsense,the wanting to go back to better times etc.


    There's an irony somehow in it all of it , that decency and manners that were valued in that era suddenly transformed into being called 'PC' by media commentator's then after a while 'PC' was losing its impact and it transformed to 'Woke' by the same media commentators. They're all the same thing decency and respect for others.


    Marketed as bad by right wing grifters and being swallowed whole by gullible fools who think decency and respect is bad but want to go back to the 40s when things were better......



    Ha

    That kind off bull**** makes me sure you are one of the people that found "baby it's cold outside" problematic.


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  • #82
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    bubblypop wrote: »
    There's no goalpost shifting or massive changes in society.
    It was never OK to grope someone you don't know, to shout obscenities at people in the street, to make lewd remarks to people about their appearance, or to harass and annoy others.

    The fact some people think these are new issues is unbelievable

    The above isn't even what's being discussed here though is it? I haven't seen one person say or imply that any of the above is ok. Where are you getting this from? This discussion here is more focused on the less explicit, approaching women on nights out etc.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • #83
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,457 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So if someone offers to buy someone a drink and they say no, anything apart from a complete retreat is unacceptable?

    No more conversation, no more flirting.

    You just keep changing details in the scenario and asking the same question. What exactly do you want to hear here?


  • #84
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,515 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That kind off bull**** makes me sure you are one of the people that found "baby it's cold outside" problematic.

    Enough of the snide comments please.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    You just keep changing details in the scenario and asking the same question. What exactly do you want to hear here?

    Ideally I would like idiots to stop conflating flirting with sexual harassment.

    *Just saw the mod comment... Will refrain from posting to each comment*


  • #86
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,457 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ideally I would like idiots to stop conflating flirting with sexual harassment.

    Yes.

    And how do you know which is which unless the line is pointed out to you? ANd there's a simple way to do that.

    If a woman asks you to leave her alone, you should probably leave her alone. Honestly not that hard to understand. Not matter how many times you present the same question in different scenatrios.


  • #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Yes.

    And how do you know which is which unless the line is pointed out to you? ANd there's a simple way to do that.

    If a woman asks you to leave her alone, you should probably leave her alone. Honestly not that hard to understand. Not matter how many times you present the same question in different scenatrios.

    That's not what has been discussed. A definite "leave me alone" is not in debate. Persistence with someone who is a not initially fully interested is different.


  • #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    The above isn't even what's being discussed here though is it? I haven't seen one person say or imply that any of the above is ok. Where are you getting this from? This discussion here is more focused on the less explicit, approaching women on nights out etc.

    And who thinks that approaching women is harassment?
    Or why are men suddenly claiming that they cannot speak to women, as far as I am aware, there's no one anywhere claiming that approaching women is harassment!


  • #89
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So if someone offers to buy someone a drink and they say no, anything apart from a complete retreat is unacceptable?

    No more conversation, no more flirting.

    It depends on how the say no.

    No **** off-complete retreat
    No I'm with someone - complete retreat
    No I want to go dancing - don't buy a drink but enjoy yourself on the dancefloor


  • #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    It depends on how the say no.

    No **** off-complete retreat
    No I'm with someone - complete retreat
    No I want to go dancing - don't buy a drink but enjoy yourself on the dancefloor

    That sounds more than reasonable


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  • #91
    notsoyoungwan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 614 ✭✭✭notsoyoungwan


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    If a woman asks you to leave her alone, you should probably leave her alone. Honestly not that hard to understand. Not matter how many times you present the same question in different scenatrios.

    Why have you said you should ‘probably’ leave her alone? If a woman has asked you to leave her alone you should leave her alone, no probably about it.


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