2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1

DataDude · 15-03-2021 12:03PM

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-montebello-montebello-terrace-bray-co-wicklow/2951414

Fairly unique house. I think Sinead O'Connor's?
€950k for 350sqm and a serious sea view...but I'd say you'd be arriving out to all sorts of unpleasant surprises at your gates over the weekend!

EDIT - I think there was previously a conversation on here where a couple of people were positive on the future development of Bray...if that turns out to be true, I think this would pay off handsomely.

Graham · 15-03-2021 12:13PM

PropQueries wrote: »

Many already are full time WFH at the moment.

Of course they are but not out of choice.

hometruths · 15-03-2021 12:26PM

DataDude wrote: »

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-montebello-montebello-terrace-bray-co-wicklow/2951414

Fairly unique house. I think Sinead O'Connor's?
€950k for 350sqm and a serious sea view...but I'd say you'd be arriving out to all sorts of unpleasant surprises at your gates over the weekend!

EDIT - I think there was previously a conversation on here where a couple of people were positive on the future development of Bray...if that turns out to be true, I think this would pay off handsomely.

Was just about to post exactly the same link. yes, Sinead O'Connors old house, but apparently she sold it a few years ago. Not much looks to have been done to it in meantime.

I love it. Unfortunately my wife says she think's its overpriced. And she doesn't like Bray.

One of her concerns is same as you mentioned, view looks great in the photos but more often than not it would be dominated by the goings on of Bray seafront. Funfairs, daytrippers, etc etc.

Cyrus · 15-03-2021 12:37PM

DataDude wrote: »

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-montebello-montebello-terrace-bray-co-wicklow/2951414

Fairly unique house. I think Sinead O'Connor's?
€950k for 350sqm and a serious sea view...but I'd say you'd be arriving out to all sorts of unpleasant surprises at your gates over the weekend!

EDIT - I think there was previously a conversation on here where a couple of people were positive on the future development of Bray...if that turns out to be true, I think this would pay off handsomely.

yeah its a little too close to the action.

in fairness it does represent value but once you had spent the sizeable sum required to modernise it bray would want to come on leaps and bounds to make it worth that.

DataDude · 15-03-2021 12:39PM

schmittel wrote: »

Was just about to post exactly the same link. yes, Sinead O'Connors old house, but apparently she sold it a few years ago. Not much looks to have been done to it in meantime.

I love it. Unfortunately my wife says she think's its overpriced. And she doesn't like Bray.

One of her concerns is same as you mentioned, view looks great in the photos but more often than not it would be dominated by the goings on of Bray seafront. Funfairs, daytrippers, etc etc.

I saw that article too from 2017, but no mention of it on the PPR and I think she's still knocking about there. Sale must have fallen through. The house attached to it is a very unpleasant guesthouse I believe. If you were to buy it you'd have to find a way to put up major gates/walls to add to privacy but without ruining the view.

Hard one to value. If it were on any other part of the coast from Howth the the whole way to Greystones it'd be €2.5m+, but given the potential issues, don't think I'd touch it even at that "bargain price".

hometruths · 15-03-2021 12:48PM

DataDude wrote: »

I saw that article too from 2017, but no mention of it on the PPR and I think she's still knocking about there. Sale must have fallen through. The house attached to it is a very unpleasant guesthouse I believe. If you were to buy it you'd have to find a way to put up major gates/walls to add to privacy but without ruining the view.

Hard one to value. If it were on any other part of the coast from Howth the the whole way to Greystones it'd be €2.5m+, but given the potential issues, don't think I'd touch it even at that "bargain price".

No doubt strong money for Bray. Hoping to persuade my wife to at least view it, will reserve judgment on it's value until then!

Mad_maxx · 15-03-2021 12:53PM

cnocbui wrote: »

No, but taxation is a biggie, it being far less there. No CGT and no inheritance tax, for instance. But there are plenty of other factors. The government doesn't kow-tow to a church. It's health system isn't 3rd world level It has a modern, sensible legal system It's not run by dickheads. It's got a population about the same as Ireland but they manage to run constant government surplus' while taxing far less. It's warmer than Ireland, the weather is better and it's got double the annual hours of sunshine compared to where I am at the moment.

Then there's the spectacular geography with varied climes with not every square centimetre of land being fenced off and farmed. And it's got the southern night skies, which are far more spectacular than the northern hemisphere.

Thanks for the heads-up, I never thought to look into the housing market first. I'm good.

mostly fair enough bar the bit about " cow towing to the church " and farming

the irish government hasnt cow towed to the church in about two decades , official ireland shows nothing but contempt towards the catholic church nowadays

i wouldnt be too quick to praise new zealands farming culture , they are far behind us in terms of enviromental awareness and pollution control , new zealand is very good at presenting themselves as one thing and the reality being quite different .

15-03-2021 12:57PM

schmittel wrote: »

Was just about to post exactly the same link. yes, Sinead O'Connors old house, but apparently she sold it a few years ago. Not much looks to have been done to it in meantime.

I love it. Unfortunately my wife says she think's its overpriced. And she doesn't like Bray.

One of her concerns is same as you mentioned, view looks great in the photos but more often than not it would be dominated by the goings on of Bray seafront. Funfairs, daytrippers, etc etc.

Fab location, like that's a prime piece of land right there on the island. Bit too close to the action though for some but if you want to be that close and love your sea swims and walking in for a nice pint in one of the many spots there, great spot to be. The seafront is always buzzing (pre, during, post covid) so you'd want to love being right in the thick of it. Personally, I'm with your wife, bit too close to the action for me but I prefer being accessible to and not in towns anyway. Personal preference!

hometruths · 15-03-2021 01:15PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Fab location, like that's a prime piece of land right there on the island. Bit too close to the action though for some but if you want to be that close and love your sea swims and walking in for a nice pint in one of the many spots there, great spot to be. The seafront is always buzzing (pre, during, post covid) so you'd want to love being right in the thick of it. Personally, I'm with your wife, bit too close to the action for me but I prefer being accessible to and not in towns anyway. Personal preference!

I'm actually with you on that point oddly enough. Currently one of the reasons my wife wants to move is she'd prefer to be able to walk everywhere on foot. We live on edge of a town and have a lot of privacy, which I love, and fine to walk for adults but a pain in the ass with small kids.

My wife sick of bundling kids in and out of the car. But if I am going to move to within a town, I can handle a loss of privacy if the trade off is looking at the sea!

enricoh · 15-03-2021 03:52PM

A good news story, well paying jobs and a vote of confidence in us. Keep em coming! My sister is recently single I might try to get her hooked up with one of the brothers!
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0314/1203988-stripe-to-create-1-000-new-jobs-in-dublin/

HansKroenke · 15-03-2021 05:47PM

enricoh wrote: »

A good news story, well paying jobs and a vote of confidence in us. Keep em coming! My sister is recently single I might try to get her hooked up with one of the brothers!
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0314/1203988-stripe-to-create-1-000-new-jobs-in-dublin/

Noting their plans to expand in Brazil and India I hope those jobs don't involve shipping in a lot of Brazilians and Indians to an already overcrowded Irish rental market (to link the above post to the property market in order to make it relevant to the thread).

MacronvFrugals · 15-03-2021 05:47PM

From the Examiner in the last few moments, another warning from the Central Bank about the Shared-Equity scheme.

We're going with lobbyists over the ESRI, CB and multiple housing academics....

'Government scheme could drive up house prices, Central Bank warns'

The Central Bank also suggest that, depending on the final details of the scheme, it could be "in contradiction" with the macro-prudential lending rules

.

In a letter to members of the Oireachtas Housing Committee, the Central Bank has warned that the proposals could result in an increase in house prices and will do little to deal with supply issues.

The plan, which Mr O'Brien brought to Cabinet before Christmas, offers equity loans of up to 30% on new-build homes under €400,000.

In his letter, Vasileios Madouros, the Central Bank's director of financial stability, said: "Overall, taking a broader housing market perspective, the proposed scheme – in isolation – is likely to have a limited impact on the ultimate supply-side problem in the Irish housing market."

DataDude · 15-03-2021 06:10PM

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

From the Examiner in the last few moments, another warning from the Central Bank about the Shared-Equity scheme.

We're going with lobbyists over the ESRI, CB and multiple housing academics....

'Government scheme could drive up house prices, Central Bank warns'

.

I assume the Central Bank can very easily just block this whole thing without much effort? Just make it clear to the lenders that LTI limits include all forms of loans and whether it comes from them, a family member or the government makes no difference?

Given how protective they are over their lending rules already (and rightly so given the bashing they took over the crisis), I find it hard to imagine why they would give the thumbs up to 5x LTI limits for those least able to afford such reckless lending?

PropQueries · 15-03-2021 06:29PM

DataDude wrote: »

I assume the Central Bank can very easily just block this whole thing without much effort? Just make it clear to the lenders that LTI limits include all forms of loans and whether it comes from them, a family member or the government makes no difference?

Given how protective they are over their lending rules already (and rightly so given the bashing they took over the crisis), I find it hard to imagine why they would give the thumbs up to 5x LTI limits for those least able to afford such reckless lending?

I’d say he will take a keen interest in housing in Ireland alright as he doesn’t want to end up being the scapegoat (as you said) if it all goes belly up. That and given his connections to New Zealand where a few weeks ago Bloomberg reported:

“New Zealand Government Forces Central Bank to Include Housing In Rate Setting”.

Link to Bloomberg article here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-24/n-z-government-forces-rbnz-to-include-housing-in-rate-setting

15-03-2021 07:30PM

schmittel wrote: »

Was just about to post exactly the same link. yes, Sinead O'Connors old house, but apparently she sold it a few years ago. Not much looks to have been done to it in meantime.

I love it. Unfortunately my wife says she think's its overpriced. And she doesn't like Bray.

One of her concerns is same as you mentioned, view looks great in the photos but more often than not it would be dominated by the goings on of Bray seafront. Funfairs, daytrippers, etc etc.

I would not recommend the seafront in Bray to anyone, unless they already spend a lot of time there and know exactly what it is like.
Even one street back from the seafront is a massive difference. And much better!

MacronvFrugals · 15-03-2021 08:30PM

DataDude wrote: »

I assume the Central Bank can very easily just block this whole thing without much effort? Just make it clear to the lenders that LTI limits include all forms of loans and whether it comes from them, a family member or the government makes no difference?

Given how protective they are over their lending rules already (and rightly so given the bashing they took over the crisis), I find it hard to imagine why they would give the thumbs up to 5x LTI limits for those least able to afford such reckless lending?

In fairness the Rebuilding Ireland loans already consist of 5/1 mortgages bypassing the CBs 3.5/1

hometruths · 15-03-2021 09:28PM

bubblypop wrote: »

I would not recommend the seafront in Bray to anyone, unless they already spend a lot of time there and know exactly what it is like.
Even one street back from the seafront is a massive difference. And much better!

Have always thought that Bray seafront is very pleasant whenever I have been there, but having said that I have often consciously avoided it at times when I know it is likely to be less pleasant!

15-03-2021 09:46PM

schmittel wrote: »

Have always thought that Bray seafront is very pleasant whenever I have been there, but having said that I have often consciously avoided it at times when I know it is likely to be less pleasant!

It's very pleasant at the moment!
Usually it is unbearably busy. Which might be ok for some, but evenings and nights would not be my cup of tea.
Crowds drinking, shouting, singing, fighting, garda cars and ambulances, people riding on the seafront/beach, people puking and peeing everywhere.
Now, obviously it's not like that 24 hours a day, but living close to it, but not actually on it, would be my preference!

The Raheen park area would be my preferred area, great views!

15-03-2021 10:54PM

bubblypop wrote: »

fighting, people riding on the seafront/beach, people puking and peeing everywhere.

In all seriousness, I've been going to Bray seafront on and off for drinks with friends since 2005 and I've never seen the above. I'm not a gawker but my eyes are open...

Like who would ride outside in Ireland where it's always cold? Puking and peeing everywhere? This is hugely exaggerated

15-03-2021 11:38PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In all seriousness, I've been going to Bray seafront on and off for drinks with friends since 2005 and I've never seen the above. I'm not a gawker but my eyes are open...

Like who would ride outside in Ireland where it's always cold? Puking and peeing everywhere? This is hugely exaggerated

It's most definitely not exaggerated. Trust me!

PropQueries · 16-03-2021 08:29AM

Interesting opinion piece in the Irish Times today about the proposed shared equity housing scheme:

"Opposition is clearly having an impact. At the outset, Minister for Housing Darragh O’Brien was gung-ho – saying a similar scheme in Britain increased supply by 50 per cent and that it hadn’t led to price inflation. Now he’s playing down the potential impact, noting €150 million is small in the context of an €11 billion Irish mortgage market and that the scheme is really only targeting about 4,000 potential buyers. It remains to be seen whether it will even get that far."

So, all this debate, hassle and time wasting over a "potential" 4,000 residential units. Surely if all the experts who have given opinions on this so far actually got together 6 months ago, they would most likely have already built 4,000 houses at cost by this stage.

This is insane time wasting if there is a housing shortage IMO

Link to article in Irish Times here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/shared-equity-scheme-takes-fresh-hit-1.4511028

Hubertj · 16-03-2021 08:51AM

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/enniskerry-lodge-church-hill-enniskerry-wicklow/4392606

I really like this place. I have no idea on the price but really like that it is so secluded but still in the village. Also, from what I can see it is not a protected structure so gives more flexibility to whatever modernisation work etc to you would carry out.

hometruths · 16-03-2021 09:00AM

Hubertj wrote: »

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/enniskerry-lodge-church-hill-enniskerry-wicklow/4392606

I really like this place. I have no idea on the price but really like that it is so secluded but still in the village. Also, from what I can see it is not a protected structure so gives more flexibility to whatever modernisation work etc to you would carry out.

Often wondered if there is something wrong with it (other than the price), been for sale for a very long time. I agree it looks like a fabulous house.

Hubertj · 16-03-2021 09:24AM

schmittel wrote: »

Often wondered if there is something wrong with it (other than the price), been for sale for a very long time. I agree it looks like a fabulous house.

Has it? Must be the price then as it has so much going for it. Very private but in the middle of the village instead of 3km out in middle of nowhere.

cnocbui · 16-03-2021 09:45AM

I love being out in the middle of nowhere. No crime, turn the music up as loud as you want, get an all-over tan on the 4 days a year the weather will let you, lovely views you never grow tired of, and 1 Gbps fibre. ;-)

Villa05 · 16-03-2021 09:54AM

PropQueries wrote:

"Opposition is clearly having an impact. At the outset, Minister for Housing Darragh Oâ€™Brien was gung-ho â€“ saying a similar scheme in Britain increased supply by 50 per cent and that it hadnâ€™t led to price inflation. Now heâ€™s playing down the potential impact, noting â‚¬150 million is small in the context of an â‚¬11 billion Irish mortgage market and that the scheme is really only targeting about 4,000 potential buyers. It remains to be seen whether it will even get that far."

Interesting the the initial budget for this was 75m and he was trying to get the banks to match this. Freedom of information showed that the minister wanted to allocate far more to this scheme
4, 000 units is 2/3 of the current Ftb market. It shows how the state needs to subsidise citizens to the tune of up to 40% of the price of the house so that they can compete with entities that pay little or no tax.
If they paid the same amount of tax as the first time buyers it might level the playing field somewhat

Villa05 · 16-03-2021 10:16AM

PropQueries wrote:

Interesting opinion piece in the Irish Times today about the proposed shared equity housing scheme:

There's a piece on the journal. Ie from glenveagh homes promoting a development in Navan obviously targeted at Dublin workers. In the register your interest link they ask if you are hoping to qualify for help to buy

I guess that is the first box of the critics ticked
Building in the wrong place

If the state is subsidising new builds they should fulfill that requirement

Cuddlesworth · 16-03-2021 10:36AM

schmittel wrote: »

Often wondered if there is something wrong with it (other than the price), been for sale for a very long time. I agree it looks like a fabulous house.

Find it on google maps satellite view, expertly cut out of the photos is a bungalow or large shed about 20 feet from the back door of the house leading into another large house(ballyboo). And its really close to a wedding venue, close enough I would guess that it would be very audible. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say its a bit much asking for 2 million considering those caveats.

PropQueries · 16-03-2021 10:43AM

Villa05 wrote: »

There's a piece on the journal. Ie from glenveagh homes promoting a development in Navan obviously targeted at Dublin workers. In the register your interest link they ask if you are hoping to qualify for help to buy

I guess that is the first box of the critics ticked
Building in the wrong place

If the state is subsidising new builds they should fulfill that requirement

Actually a very good point. If the state is indeed going to subsidise etc. these homes by up to more than a third, the least they should ensure is that they're built in the right locations. Which begs the question, where's the Green Party in all this. They do have a real seat at the table here. I would assume reducing commuting times would result in less carbon emissions.

I still don't understand how the proposed price caps under the scheme are €225k in the north-west and €450k in Dublin. There is absolutely no way it costs €200k more to build a standard three-bed semi in Co. Dublin compared to Co. Mayo IMO

dor843088 · 16-03-2021 10:57AM

The future will be WFH. The government can make huge inroads to curing a lot of problems with the stroke of a pen . Traffic congestion, emissions targets, stretched services and an overcrowded capital can be greatly reduced through legislation towards WFH. There is more legislation coming down the tracks leaning towards WFH rights for workers. Even the CEO of Dublin bus who would be having close contact with government officials has stated this is how it will be and he only expects buses to be half full in the future due largely to WFH. WFH is a huge win win for everybody especially the government there is no way they wont push for it.

2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

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2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1