What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

astrofool · 14-03-2021 06:49PM

take everything wrote: »

That's unfair. And unreasonable based on my previous post

It's not unfair, someone who isn't choosy gets to go ahead of you, happens in all walks of life, you get choosy, you wait.

All vaccine are excellent at the moment, there's no reason for anyone to be choosy about them, if they are being choosy, they ae being unreasonable. Witness the ridicule people got when they wanted to get the "british" vaccine in the UK, and the Germans who didn't want to take AZ.

Beasty · 14-03-2021 06:51PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I don't think taking the vaccine makes one immune to , breaking a nail, pulling a muscle, getting a blood clot, having an ear ache.

It does not appear to make you immune from Covid-19 (none of the vaccines claim this AFAIK)

It does claim to reduce symptoms massively, and indeed help prevent death. The initial suggestion (not seen it confirmed) was it is 100% effective in preventing death.

Does anyone know if any of these blood clot cases have died?

Either way I would jump at the opportunity to get the AZ vaccine (or indeed any of the others) tomorrow (or later on this evening if anyone has any to hand:pac:)

take everything · 14-03-2021 07:02PM

astrofool wrote: »

It's not unfair, someone who isn't choosy gets to go ahead of you, happens in all walks of life, you get choosy, you wait.

All vaccine are excellent at the moment, there's no reason for anyone to be choosy about them, if they are being choosy, they ae being unreasonable. Witness the ridicule people got when they wanted to get the "british" vaccine in the UK, and the Germans who didn't want to take AZ.

Not choosy.

Appropriately discerning about a vaccine that lacks efficacy against variants, that is less efficacious overall, and now has concerns about its safety.

You are calling people who inform themselves more than others about the relative efficacy and possible safety of vaccines "choosy" and recommending they should be penalised for informing themselves and being discerning about their health.

mick087 · 14-03-2021 07:21PM

take everything wrote: »

Not choosy.

Appropriately discerning about a vaccine that lacks efficacy against variants, that is less efficacious overall, and now has concerns about its safety.

You are calling people who inform themselves more than others about the relative efficacy and possible safety of vaccines "choosy" and recommending they should be penalised for informing themselves and being discerning about their health.

If you don't wish to take the vaccine that's perfectly fine.

What is not fine at this moment is time is you wanting to pick which vaccine you want.

If your name comes up you should take what ever vaccine is offered to you. If you don't then yes you should leave the queue and let someone who wishes to take it do so.

Once everyone through out the world has taken the vaccine or been offered it then those who want a particular vaccine can then state there case.

Dr. Em · 14-03-2021 07:27PM

Beasty wrote: »

It does not appear to make you immune from Covid-19 (none of the vaccines claim this AFAIK)

It does claim to reduce symptoms massively, and indeed help prevent death. The initial suggestion (not seen it confirmed) was it is 100% effective in preventing death.

Does anyone know if any of these blood clot cases have died?

Either way I would jump at the opportunity to get the AZ vaccine (or indeed any of the others) tomorrow (or later on this evening if anyone has any to hand:pac:)

Yes, the cases under investigation include one death in Austria and one death in Denmark related to blood clots. https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2B319K
A death is also under investigation in Italy, but it doesn't say if it was caused by a blood clot.
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL8N2LC0AU

All health authorities are clear that the investigations are a precaution more than anything.

Kermit.de.frog · 14-03-2021 07:31PM

Public confidence is really important. I expect this to be reversed really quickly and it may actually boost confidence when it is.

What concerns me more is the uncertainty with vaccine supplies in the EU. It really is irritating at this stage that every day seems to be some delay.

mick087 · 14-03-2021 07:35PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Public confidence is really important. I expect this to be reversed really quickly and it may actually boost confidence when it is.

What concerns me more is the uncertainty with vaccine supplies in the EU. It really is irritating at this stage that every day seems to be some delay.

I doubt public confidence will be dented much within Ireland in taking this particular Vaccine.
But through other parts of Europe it will.

Kermit.de.frog · 14-03-2021 07:39PM

mick087 wrote: »

I doubt public confidence will be dented much within Ireland in taking this particular Vaccine.
But through other parts of Europe it will.

That's where the government can be a bit sly. If others are not going to use theirs...throw it our way. Pay if we have to.

ShineOn7 · 14-03-2021 07:49PM

According to this (unofficial) "when will I get the vaccine in Ireland?" calculator, we have a roll-out of circa 85,000 jabs a week

https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/ireland-vaccine-queue

Does this correlate with today's AZ news?

Or was that before it was paused?

Red Silurian · 14-03-2021 07:51PM

The first jab of Sputnik V is the same as AstraZenneca so if AstraZenneca is dangerous that would suggest Sputnik V is as well...

astrofool · 14-03-2021 07:52PM

take everything wrote: »

Not choosy.

Appropriately discerning about a vaccine that lacks efficacy against variants, that is less efficacious overall, and now has concerns about its safety.

You are calling people who inform themselves more than others about the relative efficacy and possible safety of vaccines "choosy" and recommending they should be penalised for informing themselves and being discerning about their health.

There is no evidence at the moment that such a course of action would be called "appropriately discerning". The best vaccine you'll be offered is the one offered to you earliest.

Stark · 14-03-2021 07:56PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

According to this (unofficial) "when will I get the vaccine in Ireland?" calculator, we have a roll-out of circa 85,000 jabs a week

https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/ireland-vaccine-queue

Does this correlate with today's AZ news?

Or was that before it was paused?

Before it was paused. That calculator is a POS though, it's only based on current rollout rates, not forecasted ratess.

astrofool · 14-03-2021 07:56PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

According to this (unofficial) "when will I get the vaccine in Ireland?" calculator, we have a roll-out of circa 85,000 jabs a week

https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/ireland-vaccine-queue

Does this correlate with today's AZ news?

Or was that before it was paused?

This was before, but AZ hasn't been a large part of the mix, and will mean future weeks have more supply available (if AZ vaccination restarts). This was also before the extra Pfizer supply was announced.

Red Silurian wrote: »

The first jab of Sputnik V is the same as AstraZenneca so if AstraZenneca is dangerous that would suggest Sputnik V is as well...

They're different vaccines so no indication that an issue with one would mean an issue with another.

take everything · 14-03-2021 08:03PM

astrofool wrote: »

There is no evidence at the moment that such a course of action would be called "appropriately discerning".

Despite everything reported about this vaccine in terms of its poorer efficacy against variants and overall and doubts about its safety, it would follow that one would be more discerning in taking an mRNA vaccine.

Assuming though you're correct.
That all vaccines are equally efficacious and safe.
Why is choice of vaccine such an issue that people would be penalised for this.

take everything · 14-03-2021 08:05PM

astrofool wrote: »

The best vaccine you'll be offered is the one offered to you earliest.

"in Soviet Russia, vaccine chooses you"?

ShineOn7 · 14-03-2021 08:14PM

Hypothetical;

Let's say AZ doesn't come back into our roll-out at all

By May, can we still expect at least 100,000 people getting a jab? Surely with J&J coming this is the minimum we should be putting into arms weekly by then?

That's 400,000 a month and 1.6 Million in 4 months

Last I checked, at least 500,000 have been vaccinated

So - very worst case scenario - I have that as (at the very least) 2.1 Million Irish people with at least one jab by September 1st

All of these metrics are with the lowest expectations possible. I think/hope we'll be at 3 Million with at least one jab by then

That leaves 1.9 Million people, of which ??? are under 18 and/or pregnant women?

Red Silurian · 14-03-2021 08:17PM

astrofool wrote: »

They're different vaccines so no indication that an issue with one would mean an issue with another.

Yes apologies I thought they were both Ad26 based but actually I'm confusing it with the Jansen vaccine... Carry on

Red Silurian · 14-03-2021 08:44PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Hypothetical;

Let's say AZ doesn't come back into our roll-out at all

By May, can we still expect at least 100,000 people getting a jab? Surely with J&J coming this is the minimum we should be putting into arms weekly by then?

That's 400,000 a month and 1.6 Million in 4 months

Last I checked, at least 500,000 have been vaccinated

So - very worst case scenario - I have that as (at the very least) 2.1 Million Irish people with at least one jab by September 1st

All of these metrics are with the lowest expectations possible. I think/hope we'll be at 3 Million with at least one jab by then

That leaves 1.9 Million people, of which ??? are under 18 and/or pregnant women?

Open to correction but I think 80,000 were given a dose this week so If AstraZenneca doesn't come back into our programme then that figure will drop substantially

ShineOn7 · 14-03-2021 08:48PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Open to correction but I think 80,000 were given a dose this week so If AstraZenneca doesn't come back into our programme then that figure will drop substantially

But surely J&J and others then pick up the slack?

If we can't even achieve 100,000 a week by mid May then something has gone very tits up

astrofool · 14-03-2021 09:11PM

take everything wrote: »

Despite everything reported about this vaccine in terms of its poorer efficacy against variants and overall and doubts about its safety, it would follow that one would be more discerning in taking an mRNA vaccine.

Assuming though you're correct.
That all vaccines are equally efficacious and safe.
Why is choice of vaccine such an issue that people would be penalised for this.

I'm not sure why you're arguing about this, but it's always a case that with a limited supply, you take what you get offered, or you go to the back of the queue again.

If supply was abundant, choose to your hearts content, but it's not, so take what's offered or back you go

For example, the mass vaccination centre GP test was only done with Moderna, the GP led over 70's vaccinations had only been done with Pfizer, the hospital based Group 4 was being done with AZ (along with health care workers), group 4 is being cancelled while AZ investigation is carried out, when it resumes, it will be AZ again for them. No one is going to accommodate someone being choosy about this, there's lots of people who will be happy to go ahead of them.

The real world data for AZ has been showing better response than some of the mRNA based vaccines in some cases, also no issues noted with variants (the big buzzword from a few weeks ago), no severe COVID noted, which is awesome.

astrofool · 14-03-2021 09:15PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Open to correction but I think 80,000 were given a dose this week so If AstraZenneca doesn't come back into our programme then that figure will drop substantially

Looking at at a similar 7 days, it looks like 50,000 is more likely this week, but then a few weeks of 100k+ when AZ resumes:
https://covid19.shanehastings.eu/vaccines/ (look at historical data)

Danzy · 14-03-2021 09:19PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Public confidence is really important. I expect this to be reversed really quickly and it may actually boost confidence when it is.

What concerns me more is the uncertainty with vaccine supplies in the EU. It really is irritating at this stage that every day seems to be some delay.

No, the damage won't be rectified.
It will be reversed quickly and with a full vote of confidence from the EMA, it will however damage the uptake of all vaccines and Continental European societies and politics is very vaccine skeptical as it is and as we have seen.

Danzy · 14-03-2021 09:22PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Public confidence is really important. I expect this to be reversed really quickly and it may actually boost confidence when it is.

What concerns me more is the uncertainty with vaccine supplies in the EU. It really is irritating at this stage that every day seems to be some delay.

No, the damage won't be rectified.
It will be reversed quickly and with a full vote of confidence from the EMA, it will however damage the uptake of all vaccines and Continental European societies and politics is very vaccine skeptical as it is and as we have seen.

Miike · 14-03-2021 09:28PM

https://www.astrazeneca.com/content/astraz/media-centre/press-releases/2021/update-on-the-safety-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca.html

Not sure if people have seen this.

eoinbn · 14-03-2021 09:39PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

But surely J&J and others then pick up the slack?

If we can't even achieve 100,000 a week by mid May then something has gone very tits up

If we had to drop AZ it might not make a huge difference in the long term.
In the short term it would push out vaccines for people with underlying conditions. That would be the biggest immediate issue.
Everyone, except for the over 70s, would be pushed out a few weeks. It would mean that more people would have to wait until July. We are talking a delay of weeks, not months.
The biggest issue would be it would knock people's confidence in the process, especially people that were already sceptical.
On the plus side it would very likely bring forward the end date for the vaccination program. AZ requires a 12 week gap. Anyone getting AZ in July would need to wait until late September or October to get the second dose.

Red Silurian · 14-03-2021 10:08PM

Miike wrote: »

https://www.astrazeneca.com/content/astraz/media-centre/press-releases/2021/update-on-the-safety-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca.html

Not sure if people have seen this.

So basically in their tests the dangers were lower in the vaccinated volunteers than in the un-vaccinated ones? This stacks up with what the WHO is saying so good stuff I'd say

noodler · 14-03-2021 10:34PM

I often find it funny that some can push so stridently for public health advice to be followed but then question the clinical advice of an approved Vaccine.

I'm pretty sure we are doing 100k per week the last two week.

600k doses but only 200k are second doses.

AZ is a relatively small part of this but Moderna seems to be taking and age to ramp up whilst J&J seemed to wait until EMA approval before informing us on their delay.

80% of all out administered doses to date have been Pfizer and they seem to be the only stable supply.

Wolf359f · 14-03-2021 10:49PM

noodler wrote: »

80% of all out administered doses to date have been Pfizer and they seem to be the only stable supply.

Well Moderna was always going to be slow ramping up, J&J I'm not entirely sure on. First deliveries second half of April I believe.
AZ is so bad that even the UK who have been flying ahead with vaccinations, only accounts for about 40% of their doses and now they are relying on a batch from India for a delivery to keep up the pace. It's not just AZ ****ing up the EU order, they still need to deliver about 80mil doses to the UK still!

Which going by people's linear logic on here will take 24 months (that logic being it took them 3 months to supply the UK with 12mil doses, so it will keep going at that rate)

Donald Trump · 14-03-2021 10:55PM

Miike wrote: »

https://www.astrazeneca.com/content/astraz/media-centre/press-releases/2021/update-on-the-safety-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca.html

Not sure if people have seen this.

Nice of them to include the contact details of their investor relations team............

radiotrickster · 14-03-2021 11:26PM

noodler wrote: »

I'm pretty sure we are doing 100k per week the last two week.

600k doses but only 200k are second doses.

This is what I don't understand. It seems like a lot of people are unhappy with how long the vaccine rollout is taking because the UK are 'doing better,' even though we all know they're delaying the second Pfizer dose. If Ireland decided to go against clinical advice like that, people would give out about that instead.

Any time I've checked, we've been ahead of the EU average in terms of the percentage of the population vaccinated. There are 16 countries on the Our World In Data table with a similar-ish population to us (3m - 6.5m). Out of all those, we rank third in terms of percentage done, only behind Denmark and Norway (and Denmark also delayed second doses of Pfizer).

They're the types of countries we should be comparing ourselves to, not the UK who started vaccinating weeks before us and aren't reliant on the EU for supply.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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