What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

14-03-2021 01:23PM

Rodin wrote: »

There would be worse damage if they didn't roll it out.

It would be a decision Boris would have no issue making. Accept a handful of deaths due to blood clots vs thousands of deaths due to covid.

Rodin · 14-03-2021 01:24PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It would be a decision Boris would have no issue making. Accept a handful of deaths due to blood clots vs thousands of deaths due to covid.

Would be a wise decision.
The most ethical decision.

BorneTobyWilde · 14-03-2021 01:26PM

Astrazeneca

'' we've no supply for Europe''

''We've so much supply for Uk, so much we don't know were to store it, it's just filling warehouse after warehouse''

take everything · 14-03-2021 01:26PM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

Bear in mind as a regulator she has to be very, very careful about what she says in public official statements. They are taking a precautionary pause, not casting any aspirations on the company or the product.

A possible glitch is being investigated. That’s all.

From other points of view, the vaccine is excellent: easy to handle, store and distribute, technically very effective and it’s extremely competitively priced and was rolled out to market very rapidly in response to a massive crisis.

Aspersions you mean?

Yeah she has to be very careful in what she says. I don't think she has taken sufficient care.

A glitch, that's all?
Who told you that.

10 countries have suspended it.
It's ease of distribution, price etc is obviously irrelevant if there are safety concerns.

And there are issues with its efficacy re. variants etc.

I have no problem if people want to take it here, off ye go, but Butler saying people should have no choice in their vaccine should be retracted if this is reintroduced.

People should have the choice of an mRNA vaccine imo. Would ye have an issue with that.

BorneTobyWilde · 14-03-2021 01:29PM

I don't think taking the vaccine makes one immune to , breaking a nail, pulling a muscle, getting a blood clot, having an ear ache.

TonyMaloney · 14-03-2021 01:33PM

Does anyone have any insight into how long an investigation like this might typically take?

MerlinSouthDub · 14-03-2021 01:34PM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Does anyone have any insight into how long an investigation like this might typically take?

Professor Butler said she hoped it would be concluded within a week.

NeuralNetwork · 14-03-2021 01:42PM

take everything wrote: »

Aspersions you mean?

Yeah she has to be very careful in what she says. I don't think she has taken sufficient care.

A glitch, that's all?
Who told you that.

10 countries have suspended it.
It's ease of distribution, price etc is obviously irrelevant if there are safety concerns.

And there are issues with its efficacy re. variants etc.

I have no problem if people want to take it here, off ye go, but Butler saying people should have no choice in their vaccine should be retracted if this is reintroduced.

People should have the choice of an mRNA vaccine imo. Would ye have an issue with that.

Sorry I posted! I am typing on an iPhone and it has glitches using contextual AI spell checking that often will do things like that, but surely you know that?

I also wasn’t disagreeing with the pause, just pointing out that what can be an otherwise excellent product can potentially have a glitch in a complex supply chain.

Anyway, don’t know why I bothered - forums are invariably unpleasant.

I can assure you I won’t be bothering to post again.

take everything · 14-03-2021 01:55PM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

Sorry I posted! I am typing on an iPhone and it has glitches using contextual AI spell checking that often will do things like that, but surely you know that?

I also wasn’t disagreeing with the pause, just pointing out that what can be an otherwise excellent product can potentially have a glitch in a complex supply chain.

Anyway, don’t know why I bothered - forums are invariably unpleasant.

I can assure you I won’t be bothering to post again.

I just responded to your post.
Asking what I feel are pertinent questions.

I hope my last post wasn't why you are leaving.

Danno · 14-03-2021 03:20PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

Possibly never.
Once a safety concern has been officially raised about the vaccine, public confidence has been lost and people will simply refuse to take it and wait until some other vaccine is available.

I feel this is just dirty play by big Pharma who see AZ's cost price offering as a threat to their profit margins. Damage the confidence in AZ and convince the public to refuse AZ vaccine thus boosting the demand for other vaccines.

The political class will go along with it, they don't give a $hite how much it costs the taxpayer anyway. They have proven this since Covid-19 hit, firing out money left right and centre.

noodler · 14-03-2021 03:32PM

take everything wrote: »

Aspersions you mean?

Yeah she has to be very careful in what she says. I don't think she has taken sufficient care.

A glitch, that's all?
Who told you that.

10 countries have suspended it.
It's ease of distribution, price etc is obviously irrelevant if there are safety concerns.

And there are issues with its efficacy re. variants etc.

I have no problem if people want to take it here, off ye go, but Butler saying people should have no choice in their vaccine should be retracted if this is reintroduced.

People should have the choice of an mRNA vaccine imo. Would ye have an issue with that.

If we give people a choice then we have to accept lockdown lasting an extra year.

robinph · 14-03-2021 03:53PM

Danno wrote: »

I feel this is just dirty play by big Pharma who see AZ's cost price offering as a threat to their profit margins. Damage the confidence in AZ and convince the public to refuse AZ vaccine thus boosting the demand for other vaccines.

The political class will go along with it, they don't give a $hite how much it costs the taxpayer anyway. They have proven this since Covid-19 hit, firing out money left right and centre.

Wondering why the Pfizer vaccine hasn't been suspended in the UK as they have a higher rate of deaths from blood clots in people who have received their vaccine than the Astra Zeneca one:

https://mobile.twitter.com/coronavirusgoo1/status/1371062416390361088?s=21

Think you might be onto something with it being a smear campaign.

Red Silurian · 14-03-2021 03:53PM

I don't get why we need to wait stupid time for the EMA to approve efficacy and safety of vaccines yet then our crowd decide they know better

is_that_so · 14-03-2021 04:06PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

I don't get why we need to wait stupid time for the EMA to approve efficacy and safety of vaccines yet then our crowd decide they know better

The concluded that the mRNA vaccines had a potentially better outcome in a particular age cohort on the basis of the shorter 2 jab cycle. Based on supplies now we have to do those groups without AZ anyway.

plodder · 14-03-2021 04:22PM

robinph wrote: »

Wondering why the Pfizer vaccine hasn't been suspended in the UK as they have a higher rate of deaths from blood clots in people who have received their vaccine than the Astra Zeneca one:

https://mobile.twitter.com/coronavirusgoo1/status/1371062416390361088?s=21

Think you might be onto something with it being a smear campaign.

Apparently, it is the type of blood clots (in the brain) and the (young) age of the people getting them that caused the concern in Norway. I presume the pattern of blood clots seen in the UK with both Pfizer and AZ has followed a more normal profile.

Charles Babbage · 14-03-2021 04:25PM

robinph wrote: »

Wondering why the Pfizer vaccine hasn't been suspended in the UK as they have a higher rate of deaths from blood clots in people who have received their vaccine than the Astra Zeneca one:

https://mobile.twitter.com/coronavirusgoo1/status/1371062416390361088?s=21

Think you might be onto something with it being a smear campaign.

There have been more clots in the EU than in the UK and these are measured by the health authorities, not other pharma companies. In fact AZ are no threat to pharma because they have treated this customer with contempt and have not delivered even half of that ordered.

This article in the FT points out that AZ nominated a factory in the Netherlands in their EU contract but have not actually sought approval for this factory, despite the EMA encouraging them to do so. The suspicion is that finished or almost finished product is being shipped elsewhere from this factory.

Tyrone212 · 14-03-2021 04:26PM

Danno wrote: »

I feel this is just dirty play by big Pharma who see AZ's cost price offering as a threat to their profit margins. Damage the confidence in AZ and convince the public to refuse AZ vaccine thus boosting the demand for other vaccines.

The political class will go along with it, they don't give a $hite how much it costs the taxpayer anyway. They have proven this since Covid-19 hit, firing out money left right and centre.

So the authorities here are happy to stop people being vaccinated and the government which is under fire is happy to slow down the roll out for big pharma. Get help.

is_that_so · 14-03-2021 04:28PM

rusty cole wrote: »

I though this too, if the brits wont share it and Europe are being left wanting, then is it a case of, if we cannot have our share, then nobody can!! attack the efficacy and undermine the safety of the vaccine. This will create vaccine hesitancy but mosty towards the AZ jab. Stranger and more sinister things have happened, if so, this could be a cold war of sorts.

Hmm, conspiracy on a wet Sunday afternoon!

14-03-2021 04:32PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Hmm, conspiracy on a wet Sunday afternoon!

wow never saw that coming, the Russ abbot of board here folks!

is_that_so · 14-03-2021 04:33PM

rusty cole wrote: »

wow never saw that coming, the Russ abbot of board here folks!

I can only work with the material I'm given!

take everything · 14-03-2021 04:35PM

noodler wrote: »

If we give people a choice then we have to accept lockdown lasting an extra year.

I don't know if this is true.
I suspect that this is the main motivation for people on here.
Give people any old ****e to get out of lockdown.

I'm more interested in my parents getting a proven vaccine in terms of efficacy and safety.
That's all I care about.

Lockdown or not.

Stark · 14-03-2021 04:43PM

take everything wrote:

I suspect that this is the main motivation for people on here.
Give people any old ****e to get out of lockdown.

The vaccines currently on offer are far from "any old ****e". Also missing the point, a marginal increase/decrease in efficacy is trumped by having more people around you vaccinated and fewer opportunities for the virus to spread.

take everything · 14-03-2021 05:08PM

Stark wrote: »

The vaccines currently on offer are far from "any old ****e". Also missing the point, a marginal increase/decrease in efficacy is trumped by having more people around you vaccinated and fewer opportunities for the virus to spread.

I understand the greater good etc with vaccines and how they are probably the best developments in modern medicine.

What I don't like is the swing in recent years towards the smugness of some of the blindly provax crowd.

Due diligence has to be done with this AZ vaccine.
Until then I would like my parents to be able to make their own choice based on the data around these vaccines.
And not being forced to take it after it is bulldozed through (probably eventually).

Irrespective of how anxious others want to get out of lockdown.
That's it. No more.

MrMusician18 · 14-03-2021 05:52PM

Danno wrote: »

I feel this is just dirty play by big Pharma who see AZ's cost price offering as a threat to their profit margins. Damage the confidence in AZ and convince the public to refuse AZ vaccine thus boosting the demand for other vaccines.

The political class will go along with it, they don't give a $hite how much it costs the taxpayer anyway. They have proven this since Covid-19 hit, firing out money left right and centre.

Hard to take your seriously Danno, when you're previously suggested way or of this was for people to not present for testing.

astrofool · 14-03-2021 06:12PM

take everything wrote: »

I understand the greater good etc with vaccines and how they are probably the best developments in modern medicine.

What I don't like is the swing in recent years towards the smugness of some of the blindly provax crowd.

Due diligence has to be done with this AZ vaccine.
Until then I would like my parents to be able to make their own choice based on the data around these vaccines.
And not being forced to take it after it is bulldozed through (probably eventually).

Irrespective of how anxious others want to get out of lockdown.
That's it. No more.

The data on all of the vaccines approved by the EMA has been excellent, and real world data has exceeded the trial data (particularly in the case of AZ), if someone refused a certain vaccine, then they should go to the back of the queue and wait for everyone else to be vaccinated first. Reality is they might get offered an alternate vaccine a few weeks or months later.

cnoc · 14-03-2021 06:21PM

What age group has been affected by blood clots after receiving Arena Zeneca

take everything · 14-03-2021 06:21PM

astrofool wrote: »

The data on all of the vaccines approved by the EMA has been excellent, and real world data has exceeded the trial data (particularly in the case of AZ), if someone refused a certain vaccine, then they should go to the back of the queue and wait for everyone else to be vaccinated first. Reality is they might get offered an alternate vaccine a few weeks or months later.

As long as people have choice.

Why would they have to go to the back of the queue.
Why couldn't they receive it when their preferred vaccine (based on data) becomes available. Once that preference is reasonably based on relative efficacy and safety.

At the moment there is a difference in efficacy and legitimate concerns about a difference in safety.
And genuine concerns about efficacy against variants.

Until those are categorically dealt with people would be entirely within their right to choose an mRNA vaccine if that was their preference without being put to the back of a queue.

astrofool · 14-03-2021 06:40PM

take everything wrote: »

As long as people have choice.

Why would they have to go to the back of the queue.
Why couldn't they receive it when their preferred vaccine (based on data) becomes available. Once that preference is reasonably based on relative efficacy and safety.

At the moment there is a difference in efficacy and legitimate concerns about a difference in safety.
And genuine concerns about efficacy against variants.

Until those are categorically dealt with people would be entirely within their right to choose an mRNA vaccine if that was their preference without being put to the back of a queue.

You go to the back of the queue so that someone else can go ahead of you who will be happy to get vaccinated as soon as possible.

Strazdas · 14-03-2021 06:43PM

cnoc wrote: »

What age group has been affected by blood clots after receiving Arena Zeneca

Three of them (in Norway) are health workers and under the age of 50.

take everything · 14-03-2021 06:44PM

astrofool wrote: »

You go to the back of the queue so that someone else can go ahead of you who will be happy to get vaccinated as soon as possible.

That's unfair. And unreasonable based on my previous post

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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