What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Dempo1 · 14-03-2021 11:11AM

Wesser wrote: »

But of course the information available to her has changed.

Hmmm, she was aware of concerns at that stage I believe

Dempo1 · 14-03-2021 11:12AM

touts wrote: »

They won't get a second dose until AZ is cleared.

Will this then affect the efficacy? Particularly if doubts remain for an extended period, very concerning

Dempo1 · 14-03-2021 11:14AM

Roger_007 wrote: »

Possibly never.
Once a safety concern has been officially raised about the vaccine, public confidence has been lost and people will simply refuse to take it and wait until some other vaccine is available.

Have to agree, it's almost a month now since South Africa suspended use, primarily because of efficacy concerns

Beechwoodspark · 14-03-2021 11:18AM

So why is it being rolled out seemingly without issue in the UK?

Roger_007 · 14-03-2021 11:20AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So why is it being rolled out seemingly without issue in the UK?

It would be politically disastrous for the UK to publicly raise any concerns.

Wesser · 14-03-2021 11:32AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Hmmm, she was aware of concerns at that stage I believe

She was aware of these concerns yes but further information has since become a available to her. She is likely getting daily updates that are not available to the general public.

ebbsy · 14-03-2021 11:34AM

Suits the Government, another excuse because of a failed rollout.

JacksonHeightsOwn · 14-03-2021 11:40AM

Roger_007 wrote: »

It would be politically disastrous for the UK to publicly raise any concerns.

Because maybe the English aren't a bunch of fairies that moan about a sore arm and a temperature after getting a vaccine?

All joking aside, I don't believe this crap from Norway for one minute. The brits have blasted about 10 million people with it and there hasn't been a single flare up. But as soon as the sceptical Europeans get their hands on it it's giving people blood clots. I just don't believe it

flashforward · 14-03-2021 11:40AM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

How many shots have been administered, how many examples of this are there, how geographically wide and over what time frame?

110,000 doses here in Ireland, ~ 20% of total shots administered.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0314/1203889-niac-recommends-suspension-of-use-of-astrazeneca-vaccin/

sameoldname · 14-03-2021 11:50AM

Danzy wrote: »

Why not, if the EU negotiators can't be bothered to have clauses to protect supply, it can't complain when others do.

Not to have terms negotiated for what happens if there is a failure to meet targets and to have no comeback is pretty stunning.

I've exported to countries across Europe in a past business I set up.

No one ever let themselves open like that, then again we were self employed and dealing with about 35k Euros of goods a month.

The EU negotiators were dealing with a massive threat to a 17 trillion Euro trade block. Easier to be lax.

The problem for the EU is not the export side, it was the tardiness in buying, the weak support for manufacturers, not bothering to co-ordinate industries involved to get a result.

The EU could just as easily be leading the world in vaccinations, if the will was there. As it stands, one has to wonder will people take it across Europe when it comes.

Interesting to note that the EU are stopping the issuing of free licences for the vaccines, is allowing all to make it, Head of Oxfam complaining about it and it's negative impact on dosing the world.

Talk of solidarity and empathy are very cheap.

Getting the job done matters at some stage and all the excuses and finger pointing don't change one from being Johnny last.

And how much moaning would we have to hear about the evil EU hoarding vaccines when the UK death rate is so high? We could have Michael Martin out saying that the EU could help out the UK by sending them some vaccines in exchange for more leverage in NI. I'm sure no one blaming the EU now would be blaming them if they had done what the UK did, no sir.

sameoldname · 14-03-2021 11:53AM

chrisbonnie wrote: »

Because maybe the English aren't a bunch of fairies that moan about a sore arm and a temperature after getting a vaccine?

All joking aside, I don't believe this crap from Norway for one minute. The brits have blasted about 10 million people with it and there hasn't been a single flare up. But as soon as the sceptical Europeans get their hands on it it's giving people blood clots. I just don't believe it

That might be true if European nations were the only ones to have stopped using it, or even the first. Which isn't what happened.

wirelessdude01 · 14-03-2021 12:01PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So why is it being rolled out seemingly without issue in the UK?

The whole rule Britannia thing. Untold damage to the union for them to admit there is an issue.

TobyHolmes · 14-03-2021 12:04PM

chrisbonnie wrote: »

Because maybe the English aren't a bunch of fairies that moan about a sore arm and a temperature after getting a vaccine?

All joking aside, I don't believe this crap from Norway for one minute. The brits have blasted about 10 million people with it and there hasn't been a single flare up. But as soon as the sceptical Europeans get their hands on it it's giving people blood clots. I just don't believe it

so Norway just making it up for the purposes of annoying everyone.... ok then

astrofool · 14-03-2021 12:19PM

sameoldname wrote: »

And how much moaning would we have to hear about the evil EU hoarding vaccines when the UK death rate is so high? We could have Michael Martin out saying that the EU could help out the UK by sending them some vaccines in exchange for more leverage in NI. I'm sure no one blaming the EU now would be blaming them if they had done what the UK did, no sir.

What's sad is that the EU bailed them out with PPE after their initial disaster, post COVID everyone will remember how the tory government treat their friends and allies.

TobyHolmes wrote: »

so Norway just making it up for the purposes of annoying everyone.... ok then

Norway, who aren't in the EU....

TobyHolmes · 14-03-2021 12:33PM

Norway, who aren't in the EU....[/QUOTE]

so who cares if Norway are in the EU or not.
the roll out has been incredibly slow in ireland no doubt... but if there is a issue with AZ there needs to be due diligence done ... better not use a vaccine that has a possibility of making people seriously ill - they have taken right approach here.

it could have been a bad batch... a minisule change could make the whole difference...

14-03-2021 12:36PM

The British have given millions of doses, could it really be kept quiet if they were experiencing these blood issues too?

How long after the vaccine are these problems happening?

fly_agaric · 14-03-2021 12:36PM

Danzy wrote: »

The EU can hardly vaccinate itself in a timely fashion.

It won't be the one that vaccinates the world.

The countries driving that are America and Britain, with Russia and China showing potential but not just yet

Once again, If the will was there the EU could lead in this.

The will is not, there is a lot of talk about solidarity and no one is safe till all are, the responsibility of rich countries etc but it is just talk.

You've mentioned "will" and a lack of it alot, so do you think vaccine rollout has been slow by the EU Commission or the EU member state governments on purpose, or that they just don't care about this issue? I don't think there is any evidence of that (more evidence of the opposite!)

The US may well vaccinate quite a lot of the world eventually, but right now (probably until mid summer) they are busy with themselves. The UK (despite Brexit) has not become a superpower. It is + will be somewhat dependent on supplies coming from elsewhere, like the rest of us. Production of vaccines there will never be driving "vaccinating the world".

Also there is solidarity going on imo despite your jibes about it being "all talk".
There's large and wealthy countries in the EU (esp. Germany) that could have done more of a US effort on this + sorted themselves out first and Devil take the hindmost. They did not thankfully.

TobyHolmes · 14-03-2021 12:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The British have given millions of doses, could it really be kept quiet if they were experiencing these blood issues too?

How long after the vaccine are these problems happening?

it could have been a bad batch- something in production.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 14-03-2021 12:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The British have given millions of doses, could it really be kept quiet if they were experiencing these blood issues too?

How long after the vaccine are these problems happening?

I think it's more likely to be coincidence than anything to do with the vaccine.

If it is to do with the vaccine it's more likely to be a batch issue or a factory issue than a problem with the overall formula.

NeuralNetwork · 14-03-2021 12:42PM

The concern I would have is these are products from multiple subcontractors. In the world of biologics things are quite complex and you are dealing with live organisms.

A batch or a plant could have a glitch in this and the EU/EEA and U.K. supplies are coming from different plants, at least as far as anyone can tell from previous comments about delays. So it could be quite a limited issue.

It’s a complex supply chain and a biologics product. If there’s a problem, it needs to be identified and solved.

If it were one country concluding that they needed to pause I would be sceptical but it’s multiple countries, most of which are under huge political pressure over rollout speed and none of which have any particular interest in promoting alternatives to this vaccine or anything like that.

Twitter is convulsed with anger aimed at the government & the HSE but, if this is genuinely an issue and the Irish authorities ignored the issue and ploughed on regardless Twitter would be ripping them apart over having taken an unnecessary risk and they could well end up in serious liability issues.

The British media will go into mad Brexit conspiracy theory mode because to them EVERYTHING is Brexit. That’s irrelevant hot air and nationalism. This isn’t coming from the EU or some political issue. There’s a technical question being raised and a precautionary pause.

It’s also not unheard of in medicine supply chains and when somethings being rolled out on a population wide basis you have to be able to take precautions as the outcome of delivering something that has any issues would be problematic.

Hopefully it turns out to be at worst a minor a glitch or a or at best a false alarm, but I do not see the authorities here responding to something like this in an alarmist way.

If there’s something of concern in the Norwegian report that appears to have come to light over night, it needs to be taken on board and clearly has been.

The whole thing is very unfortunate though. I don’t think it will shatter confidence here in Ireland or probably not in Scandinavia either. It shows that the regulators are doing their job and doing so in a very transparent way.

However, it may well feed into conspiracy theories in France and elsewhere, where’s there’s already a major problem with acceptance of vaccines. However, I’m not sure that it’s a problem anyone can solve. The regularity agencies have to work with science and facts, not politics or concerns about public psychology.

astrofool · 14-03-2021 12:54PM

TobyHolmes wrote: »

so who cares if Norway are in the EU or not.
the roll out has been incredibly slow in ireland no doubt... but if there is a issue with AZ there needs to be due diligence done ... better not use a vaccine that has a possibility of making people seriously ill - they have taken right approach here.

it could have been a bad batch... a minisule change could make the whole difference...

I was agreeing with your post

Norway have no skin in the brexit vs. the world debate, they get nothing political out of reporting this data.

TobyHolmes · 14-03-2021 12:58PM

astrofool wrote: »

I was agreeing with your post Norway have no skin in the brexit vs. the world debate, they get nothing political out of reporting this data.

yes exactly.

sorry thought I was responding to the other poster.

noodler · 14-03-2021 01:01PM

Can't help feel companies are waiting for EMA approval (when EU is then contractually obliged to purchase) before deciding to let the bad news out about supply

AlekSmart · 14-03-2021 01:03PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The whole rule Britannia thing. Untold damage to the union for them to admit there is an issue.

Perhaps not too far out at all.

Up to now,the Astro-Zeneca product when being described in the UK media would generally have the "Oxford" moniker appended to it.

For many,that Oxford bit has the connotations of respectability and reliability that come with a World Class University act,none of this cheap'n cheerful market-stall gear from China eh ?

Something has obviously gone awry,and it has been serious enough to spur the normally wild and irreverant Norweigan establishment into action.

At the very least,people should be given an informed choice as to what is being injected into them.
In the AZ-O case if the individual is OK with that risk,then jab away Doc,however if they decide to pass on it,then there should be NO downgrading of their status as a result.

To be honest,it's a wake-up call that should heeded.

For the VAST majority of the Worlds population,their basic immuine system is currently providing as much protection as required.

NeuralNetwork · 14-03-2021 01:10PM

It’s all a bit unfortunate, given we’ve had a relatively slow rollout out in the EU, at least compared to the U.K. & US.

You can see the importance of having a multiple vaccine strategy though. At least we should see Janssen/J&J on stream very soon and CureVac and Novavax aren’t far away.

There may even be an EU produced and EMA approved versions of Sputnik V and some of the Chinese products as time goes on and there are other European products like Valnevea developed in France and being trialled mostly in Scotland.

So we’re not going to go short.

take everything · 14-03-2021 01:10PM

Karina Butler said she was "absolutely delighted" with this vaccine despite talking about the "safety signal" about these four clotting cases in Norway yesterday.

So she was delighted with it yesterday despite knowing this.

She doesn't inspire confidence.

NeuralNetwork · 14-03-2021 01:14PM

Bear in mind as a regulator she has to be very, very careful about what she says in public official statements. They are taking a precautionary pause, not casting any aspirations on the company or the product.

A possible glitch is being investigated. That’s all.

From other points of view, the vaccine is excellent: easy to handle, store and distribute, technically very effective and it’s extremely competitively priced and was rolled out to market very rapidly in response to a massive crisis.

AlekSmart · 14-03-2021 01:15PM

take everything wrote: »

Karina Butler said she was "absolutely delighted" with this vaccine despite talking about the "safety signal" about these four clotting cases in Norway yesterday.

So she was delighted with it yesterday despite knowing this.

She doesn't inspire confidence.

Any word on the Astro-Zeneca share price,or indeed on the respective shareholdings of any of the new A list NPHET celebs ?

Rodin · 14-03-2021 01:16PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The whole rule Britannia thing. Untold damage to the union for them to admit there is an issue.

There would be worse damage if they didn't roll it out.

14-03-2021 01:23PM

What will happen now i have been just talking to a relation that got that vaccine during the week the first jab.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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