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What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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Comments

  • #3062
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    brickster69 wrote: »
    Yes, VDL was in charge of German Defense and supplied the troops with Broomsticks to go on manoeuvres. True story, yet some bright sparks put her in charge of buying vaccines for 450 Million people during a pandemic.

    I remember reading about that, she was laughed out of German politics, unfortunately she replicated her previous success.


  • #3063
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    NeuralNetwork wrote: »
    Let’s not be totally over the top. The EU still has a vaccine programme and is ramping up. A delay is certainly not going to cost “trillions” but it may cost several tens of billions and far more than the cost of the vaccines.

    The cost was going to be in the trillions no matter the speed of the vaccine.

    Our small economy is borrowing 40 billion alone.

    It is pulling the finger out now but it has been a fiasco.


  • #3064
    NeuralNetwork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭NeuralNetwork


    My point is more that if the rollout happens quickly over the next few months the gap between the EU and US programmes should be narrower.

    Also as vulnerable cohorts are vaccinated the toll on the health systems should reduce, so a lot of economic activity will be less impacted.

    The overall cost everywhere is going to be trillions upon trillions. I think we’ll only be getting our heads around just how big a figure it is in a few years’ time.

    The one thing we need to take from this is that we can’t sleep walk into something like this ever again.


  • #3065
    mick087
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭mick087


    Danzy wrote: »
    I remember reading about that, she was laughed out of German politics, unfortunately she replicated her previous success.

    https://www.thelocal.de/20150217/germans-troops-tote-broomsticks-at-nato-war-games/

    https://www.politico.eu/article/ursula-von-der-leyen-biography-career-inconvenient-truth/


  • #3066
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    mick087 wrote: »
    https://www.thelocal.de/20150217/germans-troops-tote-broomsticks-at-nato-war-games/

    https://www.politico.eu/article/ursula-von-der-leyen-biography-career-inconvenient-truth/

    They were to send tanks to another NATO games but the bridges in the region were so neglected fir so long that they couldn't be trusted.

    German national infrastructure, another serious long term issue for them and the wider European economy.


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  • #3067
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    NeuralNetwork wrote: »
    My point is more that if the rollout happens quickly over the next few months the gap between the EU and US programmes should be narrower.

    Also as vulnerable cohorts are vaccinated the toll on the health systems should reduce, so a lot of economic activity will be less impacted.

    The overall cost everywhere is going to be trillions upon trillions. I think we’ll only be getting our heads around just how big a figure it is in a few years’ time.

    The one thing we need to take from this is that we can’t sleep walk into something like this ever again.

    A fair assessment.


  • #3068
    NeuralNetwork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭NeuralNetwork


    Danzy wrote: »
    They were to send tanks to another NATO games but the bridges in the region were so neglected fir so long that they couldn't be trusted.

    German national infrastructure, another serious long term issue for them and the wider European economy.

    A lot of European infrastructure in general is getting old in a lot of countries that built it from the 1950s to 70s in the post war boom. You can see that fairly clearly in Germany, Belgium, Italy, the U.K. etc. The same or worse applies in the US too.

    There’s a huge refurbishment long overdue and decades of frugal, fiscally conservative, center right governments in many countries just haven’t been doing the housekeeping.

    But to get back on topic, I think we’re looking at a shift of focus away from AstraZeneca and more reliance on BioNTech, Janssen / J&J and Moderna, with CureVac added to that list in next while too.


  • #3069
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,269 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    ... part of the problem though is that taxpayers just won't pay to upgrade it or replace it.


  • #3070
    sameoldname
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 902 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    Danzy wrote: »
    I remember reading about that, she was laughed out of German politics, unfortunately she replicated her previous success.

    Any chance of an answer or is it just one way traffic with you?


  • #3071
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    sameoldname wrote: »
    Any chance of an answer or is it just one way traffic with you?

    Answer to what?


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  • #3072
    sameoldname
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 902 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    Danzy wrote: »
    Answer to what?

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=116571859


  • #3073
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Blue Badger wrote: »
    And what's the craic with the previous reports indicating that a half dose followed by full dose gives protection above 90%. I can't seem to find in conclusion to this nor anything stated by the HSE so have no idea what approach they're taking.

    The hd/fd thing was a combination of two different effects.

    First of all it was a tiny group involved in the trial so the result was reported 92% (CI: 4% to 100%) which means the efficacy in the trial group was 92% and when they adjusted for the sample size they were 92% sure that the efficacy was between 4% and 100%.

    Secondly according to Astra Zenaca the benefit (if there was any) was actually from the fact that there was an increased gap between doses in the hd/fd group.
    Blue Badger wrote: »
    One the one hand they are clearly stating that there's an effectiveness of 76% after first dose, alongside reduction in asymptomatic transmission by 67%. Both of which are terrific. But on the other side it then states that following second dose effectiveness is at 82% while transmission is at 50%.

    If this data is taken to be the most accurate at this point in time (is seemingly the most recent published article by AZ describing such on their website) then why is the second dose given? Yes, it increases effectiveness but given the smaller drop in transmission this seems a bit daft. Why not instead give single shots to everyone instead as to me that seems more logical.

    What is up with this?

    Is there more recent data?

    The data is accurate the wording is ackward.

    The first dose reduces transmission by the 67% to 33%. The second dose reduces transmission by 50% of the remaining amount (ie to 16.5% in theory +/- whatever for CI)


  • #3074
    Russman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,015 ✭✭✭Russman


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    The data is accurate the wording is ackward.

    The first dose reduces transmission by the 67% to 33%. The second dose reduces transmission by 50% of the remaining amount (ie to 16.5% in theory +/- whatever for CI)

    So, leaving aside the CI, does that mean a theoretical reduction of asymptomatic transmission after two doses, of 83.5% ?


  • #3075
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,814 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Is this actually the precautionary principle, or is it just a drug price negotiation step - who knows!

    But anyway....

    The National Immunisation Advisory Committee has recommended the temporary suspension of the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine from this morning. ( 14 March)

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0314/1203889-niac-recommends-suspension-of-use-of-astrazeneca-vaccin/


  • #3076
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Russman wrote: »
    So, leaving aside the CI, does that mean a theoretical reduction of asymptomatic transmission after two doses, of 83.5% ?

    Yeah.

    That's my understanding.


  • #3077
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    sameoldname wrote: »
    I asked you this before and you didn't answer but would you have been happier with the EU if they had written their contracts the same as the UK and ensured that EU production stayed exclusively within the block?

    Why not, if the EU negotiators can't be bothered to have clauses to protect supply, it can't complain when others do.

    Not to have terms negotiated for what happens if there is a failure to meet targets and to have no comeback is pretty stunning.

    I've exported to countries across Europe in a past business I set up.

    No one ever let themselves open like that, then again we were self employed and dealing with about 35k Euros of goods a month.

    The EU negotiators were dealing with a massive threat to a 17 trillion Euro trade block. Easier to be lax.

    The problem for the EU is not the export side, it was the tardiness in buying, the weak support for manufacturers, not bothering to co-ordinate industries involved to get a result.

    The EU could just as easily be leading the world in vaccinations, if the will was there. As it stands, one has to wonder will people take it across Europe when it comes.

    Interesting to note that the EU are stopping the issuing of free licences for the vaccines, is allowing all to make it, Head of Oxfam complaining about it and it's negative impact on dosing the world.

    Talk of solidarity and empathy are very cheap.

    Getting the job done matters at some stage and all the excuses and finger pointing don't change one from being Johnny last.


  • #3078
    embraer170
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭embraer170


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Is this actually the precautionary principle, or is it just a drug price negotiation step - who knows!

    But anyway....

    The National Immunisation Advisory Committee has recommended the temporary suspension of the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine from this morning. ( 14 March)

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0314/1203889-niac-recommends-suspension-of-use-of-astrazeneca-vaccin/

    I wonder what that means what that will mean for those who have had their first AZ dose.


  • #3079
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,201 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    This breaking news is alarming, whilst a precautionary suspension it really does not help with over all confidence. I was struck, whilst listening to an extensive interview with Professor Butler of NIAC on the Today with claire Byrne show, just last Friday how determined and quite forthright promoting the use of AZ and indeed its benifits she was. Bad enough the entire supply issue generally but this news and decision is hardly inspiring.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #3080
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Danzy wrote: »
    Why not, if the EU negotiators can't be bothered to have clauses to protect supply, it can't complain when others do.

    Not to have terms negotiated for what happens if there is a failure to meet targets and to have no comeback is pretty stunning.

    I've exported to countries across Europe in a past business I set up.

    No one ever let themselves open like that, then again we were self employed and dealing with about 35k Euros of goods a month.

    The EU negotiators were dealing with a massive threat to a 17 trillion Euro trade block. Easier to be lax.

    The problem for the EU is not the export side, it was the tardiness in buying, the weak support for manufacturers, not bothering to co-ordinate industries involved to get a result.

    The EU could just as easily be leading the world in vaccinations, if the will was there. As it stands, one has to wonder will people take it across Europe when it comes.

    Interesting to note that the EU are stopping the issuing of free licences for the vaccines, is allowing all to make it, Head of Oxfam complaining about it and it's negative impact on dosing the world.

    Talk of solidarity and empathy are very cheap.

    Getting the job done matters at some stage and all the excuses and finger pointing don't change one from being Johnny last.


    Wealthy countries have a responsibility not to hoard the vaccines. There is also no medium or long term benefit of ignoring poorer countries as they would forever remain a source for new variants.



    EU could, if it wanted to, forbid the export of any vaccine or the material or technology used to produce it. But that would be the wrong thing to do. Both morally and practically.


  • #3081
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,178 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Does anyone know how long it will take to determine if we can continue to use the vaccine?

    Days/weeks?


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  • #3082
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Does anyone know how long it will take to determine if we can continue to use the vaccine?

    Days/weeks?
    NIAC meeting this morning, expect some details later. Here's Stephen Donnelly on it.
    The decision to temporarily suspend use of the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine was based on new information from Norway that emerged late last night. This is a precautionary step. The National Immunisation Advisory Comm meets again this morning and we'll provide an update after that.


  • #3083
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,201 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Does anyone know how long it will take to determine if we can continue to use the vaccine?

    Days/weeks?

    Based on the current decision making process, weeks I reckon, I certainly feel for anyone who's recieved this vacinne, there's quite enough concern out there as it is

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #3084
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,201 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    is_that_so wrote: »
    NIAC meeting this morning, expect some details later. Here's Stephen Donnelly on it.

    My concern is this is actually not new info, these concerns raised at least two weeks ago and yet as I've said, professor Butler of NIAC on Claire Byrne show just last Friday expressing absolute confidence.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #3085
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    My concern is this is actually not new info, these concerns raised at least two weeks ago and yet as I've said, professor Butler of NIAC on Claire Byrne show just last Friday expressing absolute confidence.
    Supposedly this pause is based on very new information from Norway. Hopefully it will be clarified later.


  • #3086
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,792 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    It's just a precaution like other countries.


  • #3087
    Wesser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    This breaking news is alarming, whilst a precautionary suspension it really does not help with over all confidence. I was struck, whilst listening to an extensive interview with Professor Butler of NIAC on the Today with claire Byrne show, just last Friday how determined and quite forthright promoting the use of AZ and indeed its benifits she was. Bad enough the entire supply issue generally but this news and decision is hardly inspiring.


    But of course the information available to her has changed.


  • #3088
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Does anyone know how long it will take to determine if we can continue to use the vaccine?

    Days/weeks?

    Possibly never.
    Once a safety concern has been officially raised about the vaccine, public confidence has been lost and people will simply refuse to take it and wait until some other vaccine is available.


  • #3089
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Wealthy countries have a responsibility not to hoard the vaccines. There is also no medium or long term benefit of ignoring poorer countries as they would forever remain a source for new variants.



    EU could, if it wanted to, forbid the export of any vaccine or the material or technology used to produce it. But that would be the wrong thing to do. Both morally and practically.

    The EU can hardly vaccinate itself in a timely fashion.

    It won't be the one that vaccinates the world.

    The countries driving that are America and Britain, with Russia and China showing potential but not just yet

    Once again, If the will was there the EU could lead in this.

    The will is not, there is a lot of talk about solidarity and no one is safe till all are, the responsibility of rich countries etc but it is just talk.


  • #3090
    touts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭touts


    embraer170 wrote: »
    I wonder what that means what that will mean for those who have had their first AZ dose.

    They won't get a second dose until AZ is cleared.


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  • #3091
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,059 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    How many shots have been administered, how many examples of this are there, how geographically wide and over what time frame?


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