Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

Graham · 10-03-2021 12:40AM

SnuggyBear wrote: »

People are suggesting we open the pubs for over 70s once vaccinated? So the 20 year olds watch the over 70s going to the pub while the vaccines are coming in dribs and drabs?

It's an unusual proposition and I think it's fair to say it's suggested by person rather than people :pac:

Certainly the first time I've seen that particular idea floated and we've had some doozies over the last few months

Happydays2020 · 10-03-2021 12:40AM

Graham wrote: »

Which do you think most people would prefer to see first, pubs for the over 70s or household visits?

Depends on the person. People are going to meet in homes and gardens anyway.....

wakka12 · 10-03-2021 12:42AM

Official estimates by Los Angeles authorities put infection rates in the population at just under 40%, with other estimates claiming as many as 1 in 2 residents of Los Angeles county have had COVID, and lowest estimates at 25-30% of the population of the city.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-03-05/covid-19-infection-rate-estimates-vary-widely

Los Angeles has some of the most notoriously strict COVID regulations in place in all of the USA. What a monumental failure, could you have expected many more infections to have occurred in this time frame than that realistically, even without restrictions?

Graham · 10-03-2021 12:42AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

2018 had more deaths than 2020 in Ireland

Most people would be pleased with that outcome given there's a pandemic and all.

We've certainly done a lot better than some.

Happydays2020 · 10-03-2021 12:43AM

Graham wrote: »

It's an unusual proposition and I think it's fair to say it's suggested by person rather than people :pac:

Certainly the first time I've seen that particular idea floated and we've had some doozies over the last few months

Why unusual? Israel are following that broad policy.

and we have been doing it in pubs for decades except instead of banning under 18s we ban under 70s

Graham · 10-03-2021 12:45AM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

and we have been doing it in pubs for decades except instead of banning under 18s we ban under 70s

yes, I see your logic there Happydays2020.

EmmetSpiceland · 10-03-2021 12:50AM

SnuggyBear wrote: »

I suggest opening everything after the over 70s are vaccinated.

Isn’t the “fear” there that opening up then could give rise to vaccine resistant strains of the virus?

wakka12 · 10-03-2021 01:12AM

The compromise we were all expecting I'd imagine - 2020 olympics will occur this year but without spectators.
https://news.sky.com/story/japan-to-stage-olympic-and-paralympic-games-without-overseas-spectators-12240840?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter
Even just managing regulations for the event without spectators, which I'd imagine will be a fairly tightly run ship in Japan with the world watching, will be a big task with so many athletes , trainers , staff interacting in close quarters and living together in housing complexes. Wonder what will happen when athletes inevitably test positive before their events, or will they get to skip to the front of the vaccine queue!

moonage · 10-03-2021 04:34AM

The lifting of restrictions should never have been contingent on mass vaccination.

We should have opened up society a long, long time ago regardless of whether there would or would not be vaccines. It's been known from early on that it's a relatively mild disease with a very low infection fatality rate. While having a safe and effective vaccine for it would be helpful, it is not critical.

Let's pretend that there were no vaccines for covid and never would be. How would we proceed? Surely we'd accept we have to live with this new, relatively harmless virus and carry on with normal life, while protecting the old and vulnerable as much as possible.

Believing that vaccines are our salvation and the only way out of this is completly wrong, in my opinion. Vaccines could help but aren't essential in getting back to normal. (I say that vaccines could help but, of course, we don't yet know of any long-term harm they may do, as safety trials are still ongoing.)

Backstreet Moyes · 10-03-2021 08:42AM

monkeybutter wrote: »

why do people think we wont get the same drops we had last summer

Go outside and look at the traffic on the roads

Go look at parks

People were terrified last year but know the virus is not as deadly as feared

Add in a lot of people are just fed up we won't have the same compliance as last year

thebiglad · 10-03-2021 08:57AM

Nuts102 wrote: »

Go outside and look at the traffic on the roads

Go look at parks

People were terrified last year but know the virus is not as deadly as feared

Add in a lot of people are just fed up we won't have the same compliance as last year

I agree it looks busier than last year now so with the improving weather you'd expect more out but, this year we have the added risk of Garda issuing fines to contend with - that may keep some people from moving around - certainly to the obvious beauty spots.

Windmill100000 · 10-03-2021 09:09AM

thebiglad wrote: »

I agree it looks busier than last year now so with the improving weather you'd expect more out but, this year we have the added risk of Garda issuing fines to contend with - that may keep some people from moving around - certainly to the obvious beauty spots.

So many things are closed as well so that stops people going out. In saying that there has always been cars around. The idea that we have all been locked in is ridiculous. If we haven't seen mass protests and businesses defying regulations, it's not going to happen now when most do feel an end is in sight to level 5 ending. Especially as people are aware of how long it has taken to get cases down since Christmas. People know the way out of this will be reduction in numbers and hospitalizations. People may not like it, but that's the way it's going and will continue to go.

The same cohort will be on here saying otherwise and people are turning, but I'll believe it when I see it. And a few protests is to be expected. I'd say most countries saw protests at some point to varying degrees during lockdown.

PowerToWait · 10-03-2021 09:14AM

moonage wrote: »

The lifting of restrictions should never have been contingent on mass vaccination.

We should have opened up society a long, long time ago regardless of whether there would or would not be vaccines. It's been known from early on that it's a relatively mild disease with a very low infection fatality rate. While having a safe and effective vaccine for it would be helpful, it is not critical.

Let's pretend that there were no vaccines for covid and never would be. How would we proceed? Surely we'd accept we have to live with this new, relatively harmless virus and carry on with normal life, while protecting the old and vulnerable as much as possible.

Believing that vaccines are our salvation and the only way out of this is completly wrong, in my opinion. Vaccines could help but aren't essential in getting back to normal. (I say that vaccines could help but, of course, we don't yet know of any long-term harm they may do, as safety trials are still ongoing.)

Leaving aside the fact that everyone that survives to old age will be old, and there are hundreds of thousands of vulnerable people who contribute to a functioning society (as do the ‘elderly’ of course), how do you propose we protect this cohort?

Your whole post is ridiculous anyway. “Let’s pretend there are no vaccines so I can be hysterical and whine about some hypothetical situation, even though things are about to get a lot better’.

paw patrol · 10-03-2021 09:24AM

Boggles wrote: »

You are guaranteed to sully the data if you narrow the subset in that way.

It also doesn't guarantee a different result.

I know what you are saying but he makes a fair point - if you don't have skin in the game or partake it's easy to to be dismissive cos it doesn't impact you at all.

We see that all the time. You'd get a more accurate result.

FintanMcluskey · 10-03-2021 09:24AM

PowerToWait wrote: »

Leaving aside the fact that everyone that survives to old age will be old, and there are hundreds of thousands of vulnerable people who contribute to a functioning society (as do the ‘elderly’ of course), how do you propose we protect this cohort?

Your whole post is ridiculous anyway. “Let’s pretend there are no vaccines so I can be hysterical and whine about some hypothetical situation, even though things are about to get a lot better’.

Or worse, depending if you give a sh#t for the economic devastation many facing families in Ireland due to unnecessarily long and severe restrictions.

Of course many have saved massively WFH throughout the pandemic and couldn’t give a hoot about anyone else’s suffering, outside of virtue signalling about all in this together or some other utter drivel

Boggles · 10-03-2021 09:48AM

paw patrol wrote: »

I know what you are saying but he makes a fair point - if you don't have skin in the game or partake it's easy to to be dismissive cos it doesn't impact you at all.

We see that all the time. You'd get a more accurate result.

Highly Transmissible virus?

ingo1984 · 10-03-2021 09:55AM

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

Some people have lost loved ones, some are petrified of losing loved ones.

Your ilk seems to live in a selfish little bubble where you think there should be a national day of mourning because you lost your job but the virus is still a major threat to the vulnerable in society. “I lost my job” isn’t going to make people who have a pre-existing condition to shed many tears, bud.

The vulnerable are now vaccinated. Nothing more society can do. Open everything up and back to normal. Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

paw patrol · 10-03-2021 09:58AM

Boggles wrote: »

Highly Transmissible virus?

Its always been the same argument - they shouldn't be going out esp. to concerts if they are worried about it.
anyway they'll all have super-vaccined themselves by the summer.

I totally get the fact it's an infectious virus but it's not that harmful.
It appears to be the elderly and the overweight / obese are at risk mostly with home transmissions the biggest spreader.

If you go to a concert don't visit your granny , if a granny wants to go to a concert then rock on - it's called risk acceptance which I fully support and I wish more people had it and stopped relying on the state or others to run their lives - another days argument , I know.

If you are overweight or obese I've given you a year to sort yourself out - enough.
bUt My ThYrOiD :rolleyes: yeah, what of it?

Boggles · 10-03-2021 09:58AM

paw patrol wrote: »

I totally get the fact it's an infectious virus but it's not that harmful.

Just a flu shure.

Covid: Hospitals in Brazilian cities 'close to collapse'

The fight against Covid-19 was lost in 2020 and there is not the slightest chance of reversing this tragic circumstance in the first half of 2021," Fiocruz epidemiologist Jesem Orellana said, quoted by AFP news agency.

"The best we can do is hope for the miracle of mass vaccination or a radical change in the management of the pandemic.

"Today, Brazil is a threat to humanity and an open-air laboratory where impunity in management seems to be the rule.

Despite this, President Jair Bolsonaro has continued to downplay the threat posed by the virus.

Earlier this week he told people to "stop whining".

Hector Savage · 10-03-2021 10:02AM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Can anyone please explain to me why in gods name we will keep things shut after the majority are vaccinated?

I think some are addicted to lock down. I suggested that as soon as over 70’s are vaccinated they open the pubs and restaurants for them and people think I am mad.

It is mad to keep things shut when risks have eased.

Exactly what you say, people have become addicted to it.
It's pathetic really, my Dad is watching RTE and is terrfied, he talks about NPHET like they are gods and blatthers on about "CASES RISING" , I live in Spain and the fool doesn't realise he is cheering on the fact that he will never see his grandkids again - except on zoom calls of course.

walus · 10-03-2021 10:03AM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Why unusual? Israel are following that broad policy.

and we have been doing it in pubs for decades except instead of banning under 18s we ban under 70s

And ban those with BMI > 30 from restaurants, as obesity increases the risk of death from cv-19, and we are good to open up

.

RebelButtMunch · 10-03-2021 10:08AM

ingo1984 wrote: »

The vulnerable are now vaccinated. Nothing more society can do. Open everything up and back to normal. Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

You'd better give RTE a call with the news that everyone with an underlying condition is vaccinated. It's a scoop!

Windmill100000 · 10-03-2021 10:09AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Or worse, depending if you give a sh#t for the economic devastation many facing families in Ireland due to unnecessarily long and severe restrictions.

Of course many have saved massively WFH throughout the pandemic and couldn’t give a hoot about anyone else’s suffering, outside of virtue signalling about all in this together or some other utter drivel

Wasnt it the same during recessions in the past decade? People lost jobs, homes. Was their mass concern for these people or were those not affected grateful for their situation? I was left in a bad way in 2010 and had to build myself up again financially. People were sympathetic, but grateful for their own jobs and circumstances. Is that not the same now?

Expecting people to take to the streets to protest for those in difficult circumstances is not realistic. Add to this, many do accept that breaking restrictions will help not anyone as it will only prolong lockdown.

Hector Savage · 10-03-2021 10:13AM

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Wasnt it the same during recessions in the past decade? People lost jobs, homes. Was their mass concern for these people or were those not affected grateful for their situation? I was left in a bad way in 2010 and had to build myself up again financially. People were sympathetic, but grateful for their own jobs and circumstances. Is that not the same now?

Expecting people to take to the streets to protest for those in difficult circumstances is not realistic. Add to this, many do accept that breaking restrictions will help not anyone as it will only prolong lockdown.

It won't prolong the lockdown, the virus spreads anyway, there was a report in Nature (a far right hate group now apparently) about this.

Windmill100000 · 10-03-2021 10:18AM

Hector Savage wrote: »

It won't prolong the lockdown, the virus spreads anyway, there was a report in Nature (a far right hate group now apparently) about this.

If cases stay high and hospitalisation dont drop we will remain in lockdown. That's how it has gone to date. I do believe vaccine rollout in conjunction with lockdown till the vulnerable are vaccinated will get us out of this.

SnuggyBear · 10-03-2021 10:24AM

Windmill100000 wrote: »

If cases stay high and hospitalisation dont drop we will remain in lockdown. That's how it has gone to date.

If they drop we will remain in lockdown too. That's how it has gone to date.

Hector Savage · 10-03-2021 10:29AM

moonage wrote: »

The lifting of restrictions should never have been contingent on mass vaccination.

We should have opened up society a long, long time ago regardless of whether there would or would not be vaccines. It's been known from early on that it's a relatively mild disease with a very low infection fatality rate. While having a safe and effective vaccine for it would be helpful, it is not critical.

Let's pretend that there were no vaccines for covid and never would be. How would we proceed? Surely we'd accept we have to live with this new, relatively harmless virus and carry on with normal life, while protecting the old and vulnerable as much as possible.

Believing that vaccines are our salvation and the only way out of this is completly wrong, in my opinion. Vaccines could help but aren't essential in getting back to normal. (I say that vaccines could help but, of course, we don't yet know of any long-term harm they may do, as safety trials are still ongoing.)

The fact that vaccines were developed so quickly is the reason they've taken this approach, lets say vaccines never worked, ironically we'd probably be a lot more opened up right now as we'd know this is something we need to live and deal with.

Backstreet Moyes · 10-03-2021 10:30AM

thebiglad wrote: »

I agree it looks busier than last year now so with the improving weather you'd expect more out but, this year we have the added risk of Garda issuing fines to contend with - that may keep some people from moving around - certainly to the obvious beauty spots.

You would imagine the 5k limit will be gone by the summer so I don't see why they would be issuing fines for moving around

Even if so people will just get together indoors, a good few people I know have talked about having and going to barbecues when we get some good weather

This summer will be nothing like last summer from the point of view of the compliance from people

Allinall · 10-03-2021 10:30AM

SnuggyBear wrote: »

If they drop we will remain in lockdown too. That's how it has gone to date.

It's actually not.

Golfman64 · 10-03-2021 10:31AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/golf/covid-19-irish-golf-courses-endure-longest-closures-in-the-world-1.4505566?mode=amp

Another great article highlighting the complete incompetence and ineptitude of NPHET and our government in finding some intelligent nuance to restrictions.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings