Star Trek Discovery Season 3 [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

breezy1985 · 20-02-2021 07:19PM

TheValeyard wrote: »

Yes. Like some rollarcoaster thinge

Was a kinda Charlie and the great glass elevator on acid

pixelburp · 20-02-2021 07:35PM

It made me wonder how much control or management is sitting over the FX department. Did they just get a general guide to make it "epic" or somesuch and got the brief completely wrong, with no oversight to correct it. There's getting continuity wrong and then there's turning the interior of Discovery into a TARDIS. I know Kurtzmann ain't on anyone's Christmas card list but does beg the question how much influence he has over the day to day.

Stark · 20-02-2021 08:22PM

pah wrote: »

Sorry now but Buffy The Vampire Slayer is one of the best shows ever made for TV. I wouldn't do it such a disservice as to lob it in with Distupidry

breezy1985 wrote: »

Not saying they are the same standard but the same style. Teen drama and romance inserted into fantasy or sci-fi. I loved Buffy when I was a teenager but if it came.out now 20 years on I don't think I would be into it

Funnily enough I noticed Buffy was on Amazon prime last week so decided to give it another go (haven't watched it since the first run on the TV). I'm currently half way through season 2 and it's so good. It's teen drama sure, but it's teen drama on a much better level than the likes of Discovery or typical CW fare. Sarah Michelle Gellar is a much better actor than I remember.

~Rebel~ · 20-02-2021 11:05PM

Stark wrote: »

Funnily enough I noticed Buffy was on Amazon prime last week so decided to give it another go (haven't watched it since the first run on the TV). I'm currently half way through season 2 and it's so good. It's teen drama sure, but it's teen drama on a much better level than the likes of Discovery or typical CW fare. Sarah Michelle Gellar is a much better actor than I remember.

It's the difference of having a good writer on board in Joss Whedon, along with a fairly singular vision of what the show should be.

Stark · 21-02-2021 02:01PM

Watching another few episodes of Buffy I realise I seriously didn't give Sarah Michelle Gellar enough credit as an actress before. She's brilliant. I think that's another difference, not just the writing. Discovery and other CW-style shows generally use poor actors. So when it's a scene requiring emotion, they have to spell the emotions out with their words instead of showing them and it just becomes this tedious mope-fest. Whereas SMG is able to hit me in the feels every single time when the script called for an emotional moment.

Banana Republic 1 · 22-02-2021 12:34AM

Stark wrote: »

Watching another few episodes I realise I seriously didn't give SMG enough credit as an actress before. She's brilliant. I think that's another difference, not just the writing. Discovery and other CW-style shows generally use poor actors. So when it's a scene requiring emotion, they have to spell the emotions out with their words instead of showing them and it just becomes this tedious mope-fest. Whereas SMG is able to hit me in the feels every single time when the script called for an emotional moment.

Hits you like a dumb dumb she does !

breezy1985 · 22-02-2021 01:04AM

Stark wrote: »

Watching another few episodes I realise I seriously didn't give SMG enough credit as an actress before. She's brilliant. I think that's another difference, not just the writing. Discovery and other CW-style shows generally use poor actors. So when it's a scene requiring emotion, they have to spell the emotions out with their words instead of showing them and it just becomes this tedious mope-fest. Whereas SMG is able to hit me in the feels every single time when the script called for an emotional moment.

Her acting is good nothing really wrong there but the problem is the stupid places the writers put these moments in. Perfect example is when we get this big emotional farewell for some security officer we know nothing about

Edit: Also thought you were on about Martin-Green

pah · 22-02-2021 01:42AM

Stark wrote: »

Watching another few episodes I realise I seriously didn't give SMG enough credit as an actress before. She's brilliant. I think that's another difference, not just the writing. Discovery and other CW-style shows generally use poor actors. So when it's a scene requiring emotion, they have to spell the emotions out with their words instead of showing them and it just becomes this tedious mope-fest. Whereas SMG is able to hit me in the feels every single time when the script called for an emotional moment.

.

Rawr · 22-02-2021 11:22AM

Stark wrote: »

Watching another few episodes I realise I seriously didn't give SMG enough credit as an actress before. She's brilliant. I think that's another difference, not just the writing. Discovery and other CW-style shows generally use poor actors. So when it's a scene requiring emotion, they have to spell the emotions out with their words instead of showing them and it just becomes this tedious mope-fest. Whereas SMG is able to hit me in the feels every single time when the script called for an emotional moment.

I've a hard time figuring out myself if Martin-Green is actually a decent actor who's been dragged down by piss-poor directing and writing, or if she deserves a portion of responsibility for how unlikable Burnham turned out.

Having never seen her in other productions I have no way currently to gauge how she performs with better writers / directors, so I've been happy to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that Secret Hideout were mostly to blame for the development of Burnham. The manner in which they took a decent concept in Picard and so thoroughly messed it up by the end, sort of re-enforces the idea of pointing the finger at Kurtman and his crew for the failings of live-action Trek these days.

I had started to feel that Martin-Green might also be bad actor, when I saw her overly cartoonish Mirror version near the end of the season. On reflection it's about as cartoonish as what Michelle Yeoh did, which could also be down to bad direction. However it did give me the impression that Martin-Green didn't really have much of a range. Again, I can't really tell unless I watch other stuff she's been in.

I could very well be that she's doing the absolute best job she can with what she's given, and if so fair play. However alas, regardless of the hows or whys, the character of Burnham is what I feel knee-capped any potential this iteration of Trek ever had.

I now find myself no longer avoiding Spoiler threads of Discovery before watching, and in a future era of Discovery with a Captain Burnham, I might not even watch an episode unless the chatter here suggests something interesting. I'm now alas *that* dis-interested in watching the show, and it's a damn shame.

Stark · 22-02-2021 11:29AM

Just re-read my post and realised some people might have thought I was complimenting Sonequa Martin Green rather than Sarah Michelle Gellar. Edited for clarity.

*shudder*

Rawr · 22-02-2021 11:31AM

Stark wrote: »

Just re-read my post and realised some people might have thought I was complimenting Sonequa Martin Green rather than Sarah Michelle Gellar. Edited for clarity.

My bad. SMG in my head turned into Soniqua Martin-Green :P

corkie · 22-02-2021 11:32AM

Stark wrote: »

Funnily enough I noticed Buffy was on Amazon prime last week so decided to give it another go (haven't watched it since the first run on the TV). I'm currently half way through season 2 and it's so good. It's teen drama sure, but it's teen drama on a much better level than the likes of Discovery or typical CW fare. Sarah Michelle Gellar is a much better actor than I remember.

Stark wrote: »

Watching another few episodes of Buffy I realise I seriously didn't give Sarah Michelle Gellar enough credit as an actress before. She's brilliant. I think that's another difference, not just the writing. Discovery and other CW-style shows generally use poor actors. So when it's a scene requiring emotion, they have to spell the emotions out with their words instead of showing them and it just becomes this tedious mope-fest. Whereas SMG is able to hit me in the feels every single time when the script called for an emotional moment.

Rawr wrote: »

I've a hard time figuring out myself if Martin-Green is actually a decent actor who's been dragged down by piss-poor directing and writing, or if she deserves a portion of responsibility for how unlikable Burnham turned out.

People are getting confused between two actresses with SMG initials?

ilovesmybrick · 22-02-2021 11:32AM

Stark wrote: »

Just re-read my post and realised some people might have thought I was complimenting Sonequa Martin Green rather than Sarah Michelle Gellar. Edited for clarity.

*shudder*

I was wondering if you were missing the /s at the end! I thought you might have meant Martin Green hit you in the feels, with the subtlety of a freight train!

Stark · 22-02-2021 11:32AM

Was trying to figure out pah's "surely you're being sarcastic?" reaction while thinking "No I'm serious, go watch 'The Body'". Makes sense now.

Banana Republic 1 · 22-02-2021 02:12PM

Stark wrote: »

Just re-read my post and realised some people might have thought I was complimenting Sonequa Martin Green rather than Sarah Michelle Gellar. Edited for clarity.

*shudder*

I thought it was Heckler and Koch sub machine gun you where referring to.

pah · 23-02-2021 01:53AM

LOL That makes more sense now

EltonJohn69 · 09-03-2021 10:38AM

Just finished 5 seasons of the expanse. Wow ! That’s the. Best sci fi since battler star. It is so far ahead of discovery. Discovery probably has a bigger budget and more resources but they squandered it. The expanse makes you have to watch everything episode to find out what happens, I was watching discovery out of obligation.
When you see the expanse and mandalorian, it is kinda shocking how bad they got did with discovery. They should have never got rid of Lorca.

Rawr · 09-03-2021 11:00AM

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Just finished 5 seasons of the expanse. Wow ! That’s the. Best sci fi since battler star. It is so far ahead of discovery. Discovery probably has a bigger budget and more resources but they squandered it. The expanse makes you have to watch everything episode to find out what happens, I was watching discovery out of obligation.
When you see the expanse and mandalorian, it is kinda shocking how bad they got did with discovery. They should have never got rid of Lorca.

When Discovery is all done and dusted (If it is ever gets done and dusted), it would be interesting to see how inside the production evolved over time. On paper, Discovery has had a lot of ingredients for being a successful Trek show, and if handled correctly may of even been one of the best.

However, something happened that sort of knee-capped that potential early on and appeared to have gotten worse over time. It's hard to know if this is due to any individual or the group as a whole, or even the current state of Television production in the past few years, but some factors had appeared to remove the production's ability to stitch together an enjoyable sci-fi series.

This is ignoring all of the canon and Burnham issues, but it does feel like this people people have forgotten how to make entertaining Sci-fi. Early on, I was actively using my own head-canon to explain away their continuity mistakes because to a degree I was enjoying myself. But that ended, and by the time we get through Season 3, watching Discovery had become a chore. Up until mid-way through Season 3 I was actively avoiding these forums whenever a new episode was coming out in order to give the episode a spoiler-free first impression. But as Season 3 continued, this had become a tedious chore. Eventually I dropped it entirely and for the last few episodes I ignored the spoiler-warnings here, and read about the episode ahead of watching it. I had even spent a lot of the time fast-forwarding through scenes that I could instinctively feel would not add to the episodes at all and would just eat into the runtime with emotional slokk. So there was that added level of tedium.

I think I'm at the point of only watching a future episode if a lot of good stuff is being said about it here. Otherwise I don't see the payoff of even watching anymore. This for me is mostly down to entertainment value. I'm a Trekkie because Trek entertains me, and that universe has usually been a source of entertainment in so many different forms. Alas, Discover stopped being entertainment for me a long time ago.

Banana Republic 1 · 09-03-2021 12:53PM

Rawr wrote: »

When Discovery is all done and dusted (If it is ever gets done and dusted), it would be interesting to see how inside the production evolved over time. On paper, Discovery has had a lot of ingredients for being a successful Trek show, and if handled correctly may of even been one of the best.

However, something happened that sort of knee-capped that potential early on and appeared to have gotten worse over time. It's hard to know if this is due to any individual or the group as a whole, or even the current state of Television production in the past few years, but some factors had appeared to remove the production's ability to stitch together an enjoyable sci-fi series.

This is ignoring all of the canon and Burnham issues, but it does feel like this people people have forgotten how to make entertaining Sci-fi. Early on, I was actively using my own head-canon to explain away their continuity mistakes because to a degree I was enjoying myself. But that ended, and by the time we get through Season 3, watching Discovery had become a chore. Up until mid-way through Season 3 I was actively avoiding these forums whenever a new episode was coming out in order to give the episode a spoiler-free first impression. But as Season 3 continued, this had become a tedious chore. Eventually I dropped it entirely and for the last few episodes I ignored the spoiler-warnings here, and read about the episode ahead of watching it. I had even spent a lot of the time fast-forwarding through scenes that I could instinctively feel would not add to the episodes at all and would just eat into the runtime with emotional slokk. So there was that added level of tedium.

I think I'm at the point of only watching a future episode if a lot of good stuff is being said about it here. Otherwise I don't see the payoff of even watching anymore. This for me is mostly down to entertainment value. I'm a Trekkie because Trek entertains me, and that universe has usually been a source of entertainment in so many different forms. Alas, Discover stopped being entertainment for me a long time ago.

Two points:
The problem with the show and current Star Trek was/is Kurtzmann
Real criticism didn't start here until the tail end of season 3 the show was a turkey long before that.

Rawr · 09-03-2021 01:30PM

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Two points:
The problem with the show and current Star Trek was/is Kurtzmann
Real criticism didn't start here until the tail end of season 3 the show was a turkey long before that.

I would certainly agree on both counts.
You could argue that the show stopped having any potential of being good Trek during the run of Season 1. There was still a slither of hope though Season 2 (although that was dwindling fast) and prior to Season 3 there was at least some hope of a soft reboot of the show, which alas came to nothing.

I think for me, Discovery went from being bad Trek, to tediously unwatchable Trek during the tail-end of Season 3. By that I mean I had gone from watching episodes that I was fairly sure I would not rewatch, to watching episodes that had me questioning why I was even watching....during the process of actually watching said episode. It was the same feeling I had when I finally stopped watching new episodes of the The Simpsons a couple of years back. I think I haven't bothered for at least 2 seasons now, and I had reached that point by realising that it was better to not watch a show just to get frustrated by it. That's where I think I am with Discovery now.

GreeBo · 09-03-2021 01:41PM

^ You know its bad when a show turns a fan into a hate watcher.

ilovesmybrick · 09-03-2021 01:42PM

Rawr wrote: »

I think for me, Discovery went from being bad Trek, to tediously unwatchable Trek during the tail-end of Season 3. By that I mean I had gone from watching episodes that I was fairly sure I would not rewatch, to watching episodes that had me questioning why I was even watching....during the process of actually watching said episode.

Fully agree with this. I think around Unification part III I found myself watching for the sake of watching, rather than enjoyment. Even with all the criticism of Picard I never felt that the episodes were as, hollow maybe? I'm not sure exactly. I think the difference is that Picard had a thought out plot and structure, for all its faults, and there was a sense of momentum. Discovery season 3 began to feel like a paint by colours or something.

Rawr · 09-03-2021 07:45PM

GreeBo wrote: »

^ You know its bad when a show turns a fan into a hate watcher.

Not as much a “hate watcher” Greenbo,
More of a “hope out of hope that this one will somehow actually be good- watcher”.

But alas there’s only so much of that you can do before you run out of hope.

pixelburp · 09-03-2021 07:52PM

I don't hate watch Discovery either, but season 3 kinda broke me in failing to hit the biggest open goal the show yet conceived. I forgave seasons one and two because I knew behind the scenes there was chaos. So chaos was seen in the final product. Season 3 was just so disheartening. A genuinely great pitch for the show, undermined by bad structure. Not the writing now - cos even crap writing can be fun to watch if the story's good (see the CW superhero shows) - instead it was like there was no communication to the writers to stick to a form or arc. Guys you're supposed to be reforming the Feder... oh, no, we're just going to arse about for 11 episodes.

breezy1985 · 09-03-2021 08:10PM

pixelburp wrote: »

I don't hate watch Discovery either, but season 3 kinda broke me in failing to hit the biggest open goal the show yet conceived. I forgave seasons one and two because I knew behind the scenes there was chaos. So chaos was seen in the final product. Season 3 was just so disheartening. A genuinely great pitch for the show, undermined by bad structure. Not the writing now - cos even crap writing can be fun to watch if the story's good (see the CW superhero shows) - instead it was like there was no communication to the writers to stick to a form or arc. Guys you're supposed to be reforming the Feder... oh, no, we're just going to arse about for 11 episodes.

I have zoned out of the final half of every season of DIS and fully gave up half way through the first too.
Final 2 episodes of PIC are crap too. We seem to have a group desperate to do arcs who are crap at it

ilovesmybrick · 09-03-2021 08:18PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

We seem to have a group desperate to do arcs who are crap at it

I'm not sure that the arcs per se are the problem, having an underlining story arc can be a real benefit. I think the problem is the complete lack of any smaller little storylines or sub-plots that flesh out the universe. It's just one, quite weak, story arc with little else. If Discovery season 3 had kept the main arc, and if they had fleshed out the hinted at PTSD lines storylines, dislocation story, or even the (really poorly drawn out) Adira story line, it could have been a decent season. However, they had sweet f all development of those potentially interesting side plots and focused almost exclusively on the weak burn story, which could have been stronger if there had been some other meat on the season.

For obvious reasons I'm going to exclude the Georgiou waste of time....

breezy1985 · 09-03-2021 08:21PM

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

I'm not sure that the arcs per se are the problem, having an underlining story arc can be a real benefit. I think the problem is the complete lack of any smaller little storylines or sub-plots that flesh out the universe. It's just one, quite weak, story arc with little else. If Discovery season 3 had kept the main arc, and if they had fleshed out the hinted at PTSD lines storylines, dislocation story, or even the (really poorly drawn out) Adira story line, it could have been a decent season. However, they had sweet f all development of those potentially interesting side plots and focused almost exclusively on the weak burn story, which could have been stronger if there had been some other meat on the season.

For obvious reasons I'm going to exclude the Georgiou waste of time....

I don't mind arcs at all but they need a start, middle and end of the story to arc and this crowd seem unable to write some of those steps. Another problem is a desperate need for a big CGI finale

Evade · 09-03-2021 08:23PM

I think Kurtzman must have some sort of ADD or something. I started watching Salvation on Netflix but I had to pack it in a few episodes into season two. It's an asteroid heading towards Earth series but it couldn't just be that there's about five of six secret plots piled on top of one another and it just gets so convoluted.

breezy1985 · 09-03-2021 08:31PM

Evade wrote: »

I think Kurtzman must have some sort of ADD or something. I started watching Salvation on Netflix but I had to pack it in a few episodes into season two. It's an asteroid heading towards Earth series but it couldn't just be that there's about five of six secret plots piled on top of one another and it just gets so convoluted.

All his shows remind me of "Lost" wannabes

RandomViewer · 09-03-2021 08:51PM

Finished "The Expanse" last weekend, secondary characters have more backstory than Discovery main cast,

Star Trek Discovery ***Season 3*** [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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Star Trek Discovery Season 3 [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]