Beginning to Invest - All questions go here please

Bob24 · 07-03-2021 06:10PM

RMDrive wrote: »

If it wasn't for the ETF taxing setup in Ireland, would this still be the case?

It would remove some of their attraction, but I think I would still like them.

Keeping the debate on whether active management can beat indexes in the long term aside, I think one thing ITs can do which passive ETFs can’t is multi asset category dynamic allocations or string investment.

For exemple something like Ruffer which which keeps an open mind to buy any asset or financial instrument with the purpose of growing capital faster than inflation and limiting volatility is an interesting alternative to savings accounts IMO.

Bob24 · 07-03-2021 06:14PM

Lilian Plain Ponytail wrote: »

Thanks.

My initial plan had been to use T212 until I built to a substantial amount, then transfer to something more "reliable" at that stage (say in 5 years maybe, or longer). But neither T212, Etoro or revolut offer the option to move your shares, instead you have to sell everything (which means TAX) and move cash. I did not realize this. This is a non runner for me. (Revolut and T212 say share transfer will be available "in the future" but who knows).

Given this, I had then considered sacrificing the option to buy fractional and use DeGiro, however these appear to not offer a number of Investment Trusts I would like, which will be the backbone of my portfolio, ruling this option out.

So basically, by default, the only option really left is interactive brokers? I will have to investigate fee structures. A tenner a month is ok, but I will have to calculate how best to carry out my investments to avoid exceeding that and see if there are any other fees that could cripple my gains. I will be investing only 5k or so a year, initially (progressively reaching 10k per year after 7 years), and had planned to regularly top up my holdings (6 to 10) with smallish amounts every fortnightly payday or so (hence desire for fractional), this would have to change and was probably a bad idea to begin with.

Yeah until recently I would have recommended DEGIRO to you because it is easier to use and the fee structure is easier to understand, but unless they resolve the Investment Trusts issue they are not suitable for what you want to do so it defaults to Interactive Brokers (maybe someone else has a better suggestion though ...).

2012paddy2012 · 07-03-2021 06:19PM

pocketdooz wrote: »

Do you really get 7-8% in the credit union?

I dont think so.

.

Definitely not - no dividend this year either. - I’m in one of the biggest - can’t see the sum on this post - credit unions are returning shares and putting limits 20/30 k in shares. - it’s costing them money -
Have my doubts about this claim. Also

timetogo1 · 07-03-2021 06:43PM

Lilian Plain Ponytail wrote: »

Thanks.

My initial plan had been to use T212 until I built to a substantial amount, then transfer to something more "reliable" at that stage (say in 5 years maybe, or longer). But neither T212, Etoro or revolut offer the option to move your shares, instead you have to sell everything (which means TAX) and move cash. I did not realize this. This is a non runner for me. (Revolut and T212 say share transfer will be available "in the future" but who knows).

Given this, I had then considered sacrificing the option to buy fractional and use DeGiro, however these appear to not offer a number of Investment Trusts I would like, which will be the backbone of my portfolio, ruling this option out.

So basically, by default, the only option really left is interactive brokers? I will have to investigate fee structures. A tenner a month is ok, but I will have to calculate how best to carry out my investments to avoid exceeding that and see if there are any other fees that could cripple my gains. I will be investing only 5k or so a year, initially (progressively reaching 10k per year after 7 years), and had planned to regularly top up my holdings (6 to 10) with smallish amounts every fortnightly payday or so (hence desire for fractional), this would have to change and was probably a bad idea to begin with.

Obviously everybody's situation is different but a couple of considerations for your strategy.

1: You should sell at least enough every year to make €1270 profit (or that times 2 if you have a spouse that invests). So if you sold in T212 / Degiro you could buy back in Interactive Brokers.

2: If you don't sell after 8 years you have to pay tax anyway. Thank you Revenue for adding an extra complicated hoop to jump through.

3: My missus has a share account and coincidentally when when I sell shares in my account she buys them in her account for a year. So no bed & breakfasting issue.

crystalbrite · 07-03-2021 07:25PM

timetogo1 wrote: »

Obviously everybody's situation is different but a couple of considerations for your strategy.

1: You should sell at least enough every year to make €1270 profit (or that times 2 if you have a spouse that invests). So if you sold in T212 / Degiro you could buy back in Interactive Brokers.

2: If you don't sell after 8 years you have to pay tax anyway. Thank you Revenue for adding an extra complicated hoop to jump through.

3: My missus has a share account and coincidentally when when I sell shares in my account she buys them in her account for a year. So no bed & breakfasting issue.

If you have shares in your account and your spouse has shares in theirs I recommend putting a spreadsheet together in Excel or Google Sheets. You can keep track of all your shares easily.
They're not hard to do and the prices updated immediately (e.g. no 15 minute wait ala Degiro). And it's handy for tracking where you are (and in comparison to where you were a month ago or 6)

Are you saying the 8 year tax rule now applies to all shares/stocks and not just ETFs?

07-03-2021 08:09PM

timetogo1 wrote: »

Obviously everybody's situation is different but a couple of considerations for your strategy.

1: You should sell at least enough every year to make €1270 profit (or that times 2 if you have a spouse that invests). So if you sold in T212 / Degiro you could buy back in Interactive Brokers.

2: If you don't sell after 8 years you have to pay tax anyway. Thank you Revenue for adding an extra complicated hoop to jump through.

3: My missus has a share account and coincidentally when when I sell shares in my account she buys them in her account for a year. So no bed & breakfasting issue.

If you have shares in your account and your spouse has shares in theirs I recommend putting a spreadsheet together in Excel or Google Sheets. You can keep track of all your shares easily.
They're not hard to do and the prices updated immediately (e.g. no 15 minute wait ala Degiro). And it's handy for tracking where you are (and in comparison to where you were a month ago or 6)

Not married, but the "fun" of demonstrating that the funds were my spouses and not mine to revenue when/if audited would not e something I would relish.

I think you are wrong on the 8 years, that's EFTs you are thinking of

Bob24 · 07-03-2021 09:27PM

Lilian Plain Ponytail wrote: »

I think you are wrong on the 8 years, that's EFTs you are thinking of

Yep, you’re correct.

TalleyRand83 · 09-03-2021 01:44AM

Anyone ever use the lazy option of copyportfolio on etoro?

I’m look at the “in the game” copy which is basically nearly all the gaming stocks out there and the other is “food tech” which is in the food, agri, related businesses.

Both seem like good spread of stocks and seemingly a positive track record for each.

Straight forward enough?

Taylor365 · 10-03-2021 07:57PM

Just an aside.

Mistake on current Form cg1 attached:

https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gift...-file-cgt.aspx

Should read 2020, not 2019.

TalleyRand83 · 22-03-2021 05:39PM

TalleyRand83 wrote: »

Anyone ever use the lazy option of copyportfolio on etoro?

I’m look at the “in the game” copy which is basically nearly all the gaming stocks out there and the other is “food tech” which is in the food, agri, related businesses.

Both seem like good spread of stocks and seemingly a positive track record for each.

Straight forward enough?

I'll try bump this for a few bites, still looking at some of the etoro managed copyportfolios.

Have threw 1k each into above as well as "RenewableEnergy"and now looking at other grouped portfolios such as "Travel Kit" "PetPortfolio" and "CannabisCare"

Not mad about some of these portfolios being equal split weighting per stock as does come across like they're being a bit lazy.

But seems as good way to invest unless anyone thinks otherwise?

22-03-2021 07:50PM

TalleyRand83 wrote: »

I'll try bump this for a few bites, still looking at some of the etoro managed copyportfolios.

Have threw 1k each into above as well as "RenewableEnergy"and now looking at other grouped portfolios such as "Travel Kit" "PetPortfolio" and "CannabisCare"

Not mad about some of these portfolios being equal split weighting per stock as does come across like they're being a bit lazy.

But seems as good way to invest unless anyone thinks otherwise?

I personally would not be keen on just copying some random guy on the internet.

Also, when they re-balance the portfolio, and stocks or fractions of stocks are bought and sold, it will get messy when it comes to tax.

peacock20 · 24-03-2021 02:58PM

Just a query, and I feel I'm over thinking this. With ETFs, deemed disposal is 8 years, so whether you sell or not, tax is to be paid at that time on any earnings. That's easy to grasp.
My question, I would like to make regular monthly payments into the same ETF.
Is deemed disposal applicable after 8 years from the first payment into the ETF, or 8 years after each and every payment in? Hardly?
Please tell me I'm thinking too hard on this

Bob Harris · 24-03-2021 03:34PM

peacock20 wrote: »

Just a query, and I feel I'm over thinking this. With ETFs, deemed disposal is 8 years, so whether you sell or not, tax is to be paid at that time on any earnings. That's easy to grasp.
My question, I would like to make regular monthly payments into the same ETF.
Is deemed disposal applicable after 8 years from the first payment into the ETF, or 8 years after each and every payment in? Hardly?
Please tell me I'm thinking too hard on this

I have yet to read a definitive response. I have the read the following but I can't vouch for the source '...after 8 years from the beginning of the plan the whole plan is deemed sold even the premium paid only last month'.

Shedite27 · 24-03-2021 04:12PM

peacock20 wrote: »

Just a query, and I feel I'm over thinking this. With ETFs, deemed disposal is 8 years, so whether you sell or not, tax is to be paid at that time on any earnings. That's easy to grasp.
My question, I would like to make regular monthly payments into the same ETF.
Is deemed disposal applicable after 8 years from the first payment into the ETF, or 8 years after each and every payment in? Hardly?
Please tell me I'm thinking too hard on this

Somewhere between the two.

If you're contributing monthly, then you'll have funds due for DD every month.

However, you only need to pay your CGT bill once a year, so once a year, you'll tot up the 12 bills for the year, add them up on a spreadsheet, and put that number on 1 CGT form.

That's no different to what you'd be doing if you're buying and selling shares. If you make one contribution a month, it's just 12 rows on a spreadsheet, and 12 prices to get from Yahoo Finance. Shouldn't take more than an hour, once a year to do the whole lot.

tomstud12 · 28-03-2021 09:11PM

Hey Guys,

I got into forex trading while back and I just wanted to ask, do I have to pay tax or anything on my trading profits? Because I saw somewhere that in Ireland if you have a primary job and trading is just on the side that it's taken in as spread betting. Is this true? I found it hard to believe because let's say someone made €100000 in one year from trading and he also has a job I don't believe that he does not have to pay any tax on the €100000

I'm still a bit new to forex but I've earned a bit now and wondering what I do as I wouldn't want the revenue to get onto me at the end of the year asking where I got all this money from.

Kannon · 28-03-2021 10:48PM

Spreadbetting is tax free in Ireland. Otherwise your gains are taxable.

tomstud12 · 29-03-2021 09:03AM

Kannon wrote: »

Spreadbetting is tax free in Ireland. Otherwise your gains are taxable.

Okay so as long as I have a job I won’t have to pay tax on my profits from forex if I just do forex trading since that is considered spread betting?

Kid Charlemagne · 29-03-2021 10:21AM

tomstud12 wrote: »

Okay so as long as I have a job I won’t have to pay tax on my profits from forex if I just do forex trading since that is considered spread betting?

Where are you seeing that? Unfortunately it sounds unlikely.

tomstud12 · 29-03-2021 12:57PM

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

Where are you seeing that? Unfortunately it sounds unlikely.

Hey when I google “Do you pay tax on forex trading in Ireland” this is what I get

Introduction to Spread Betting
Spread betting or spread trading as it is commonly referred to in Ireland offers a tax-free and efficient way of trading the price movements of thousands of financial markets including indices, shares, forex pairs, commodities and more.

Bob24 · 29-03-2021 01:11PM

tomstud12 wrote: »

Hey when I google “Do you pay tax on forex trading in Ireland” this is what I get

Introduction to Spread Betting
Spread betting or spread trading as it is commonly referred to in Ireland offers a tax-free and efficient way of trading the price movements of thousands of financial markets including indices, shares, forex pairs, commodities and more.

It says here that disposal of non Irish currency triggers CGT though: https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/what-do-you-pay-cgt-on.aspx

I believe there are exceptions (for exemple if this is done as part of a business transaction) but that wouldn’t cover trading forex pairs. If there is an exception for this type of activity I’d actually like to see a source from a tax advisor or from Revenue for my own tax knowledge.

Kid Charlemagne · 29-03-2021 02:05PM

tomstud12 wrote: »

Hey when I google “Do you pay tax on forex trading in Ireland” this is what I get

Introduction to Spread Betting
Spread betting or spread trading as it is commonly referred to in Ireland offers a tax-free and efficient way of trading the price movements of thousands of financial markets including indices, shares, forex pairs, commodities and more.

Ah OK but that isnt forex trading. You dont actually own an asset via spread betting, youre just gambling on it's future price movement. But yeah as it is gambling it doesn't attract tax in ROI. On the flipside, if you get it wrong you've lost your investment (and more if you've leveraged it).

There's a whole other set of risks involved there which should be understood before getting into that game.

VonLuck · 03-04-2021 07:09PM

Does anyone have any suggestions for investing spare disposable income at the end of a month? I have apportioned income each month for my pension and other long-term savings (including stocks) but some months I might have spare change which I had budgeted for "entertainment" or other non-essential items.

Say you had put aside €100 for pubs or restaurants (in non-covid times) and you ended up not spending any of it. Where would be a good place to put it? I'm thinking a higher risk investment (maybe short-term) where losing it all would not impact you long-term financially. Would buying shares in SPACs be a good option or are there any other good ideas out there?

03-04-2021 07:10PM

VonLuck wrote: »

Does anyone have any suggestions for investing spare disposable income at the end of a month? I have apportioned income each month for my pension and other long-term savings (including stocks) but some months I might have spare change which I had budgeted for "entertainment" or other non-essential items.

Say you had put aside €100 for pubs or restaurants (in non-covid times) and you ended up not spending any of it. Where would be a good place to put it? I'm thinking a higher risk investment (maybe short-term) where losing it all would not impact you long-term financially. Would buying shares in SPACs be a good option or are there any other good ideas out there?

Bitcoin or something like that maybe?

Shedite27 · 03-04-2021 08:28PM

VonLuck wrote: »

Does anyone have any suggestions for investing spare disposable income at the end of a month? I have apportioned income each month for my pension and other long-term savings (including stocks) but some months I might have spare change which I had budgeted for "entertainment" or other non-essential items.

Say you had put aside €100 for pubs or restaurants (in non-covid times) and you ended up not spending any of it. Where would be a good place to put it? I'm thinking a higher risk investment (maybe short-term) where losing it all would not impact you long-term financially. Would buying shares in SPACs be a good option or are there any other good ideas out there?

SPACs are a bit out of favour at the moment, may be a bubble that's already burst. And finding the better ones probably needs more work than you'd want.

I like the Crypto idea, Bitcoin an obvious one, Ether the other soldi one for now.

My spare cash goes in stocks, there's always somethign I want to add to

VonLuck · 03-04-2021 09:08PM

I'm completely out of the loop on cryptocurrency so I'd have to do a good bit of research.

Do you invest your spare cash with a long-term view of retirement etc. or do you still treat it, and the profits, as disposable e.g. putting it towards a new car?

I'm trying to weigh up investing for the future and living in the now as well.

digiman · 03-04-2021 10:56PM

Is there anywhere that’s possible to dollar average every month into the likes of google or Amazon with children’s allowance money?

I’ve got my own DEGIRO account for myself, but want to put the children’s allowance money aside for the next 16 years, any advice?

Shedite27 · 04-04-2021 08:39AM

VonLuck wrote: »

I'm completely out of the loop on cryptocurrency so I'd have to do a good bit of research.

Do you invest your spare cash with a long-term view of retirement etc. or do you still treat it, and the profits, as disposable e.g. putting it towards a new car?

I'm trying to weigh up investing for the future and living in the now as well.

Mainly long term, hoping to be able to retire early and enjoy a few years of travel or living abroad my late 50's/60's, or be able to help the kids out with a house deposit.

timetogo1 · 04-04-2021 08:51AM

digiman wrote: »

Is there anywhere that’s possible to dollar average every month into the likes of google or Amazon with children’s allowance money?

I’ve got my own DEGIRO account for myself, but want to put the children’s allowance money aside for the next 16 years, any advice?

Trading 212 allows you to buy fractional shares. So if you have €100 a month you can buy €100 of Amazon per month consistently rather than waiting about 30 months at current prices to buy 1 share.
Then if Amazon goes up 1%, 10%, 100% (or down) you get the same percentage.

digiman · 04-04-2021 01:47PM

timetogo1 wrote: »

Trading 212 allows you to buy fractional shares. So if you have €100 a month you can buy €100 of Amazon per month consistently rather than waiting about 30 months at current prices to buy 1 share.
Then if Amazon goes up 1%, 10%, 100% (or down) you get the same percentage.

This looks really good and I like the feature where you can create your own types of portfolios and assign weights to each share in the portfolio and then you buy €100 of shares in the portfolio.

Only problem is they are not taking on new customers at this time, any word when that will be lifted again?

C0N0R · 05-04-2021 11:51AM

digiman wrote: »

This looks really good and I like the feature where you can create your own types of portfolios and assign weights to each share in the portfolio and then you buy €100 of shares in the portfolio.

Only problem is they are not taking on new customers at this time, any word when that will be lifted again?

Also to echo this question, any other platforms recommended? Looking at buying SMT which degiro doesn't allow?

Beginning to Invest - All questions go here please

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