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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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  • #3872
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,769 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    GeorgeBailey wrote: »
    Was just in my local park. There was a group of 6 pensioners in a group talking to each other. To whom should I report this scandalous behaviour? Newstalk maybe? They were coked to the eyeballs too (I don't know that for sure but I think it's a safe assumption to make given their wholly reckless behaviour).

    Well start with the guards, then the HSE and then George Lee..

    That should cover it


  • #3873
    Ronan|Raven
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,152 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven


    GeorgeBailey wrote: »
    Was just in my local park. There was a group of 6 pensioners in a group talking to each other. To whom should I report this scandalous behaviour? Newstalk maybe? They were coked to the eyeballs too (I don't know that for sure but I think it's a safe assumption to make given their wholly reckless behaviour).


    Further proof the pension is too generous.


  • #3874
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,085 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    New setback for Covid-19 vaccination as roll out to over-80s hit due to Moderna jab shortfall

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/new-setback-for-covid-19-vaccination-as-roll-out-to-over-80s-hit-due-to-moderna-jab-shortfall-40167770.html

    Disappointing news


  • #3875
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    New setback for Covid-19 vaccination as roll out to over-80s hit due to Moderna jab shortfall

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/new-setback-for-covid-19-vaccination-as-roll-out-to-over-80s-hit-due-to-moderna-jab-shortfall-40167770.html

    Disappointing news
    Just give them the AZ jab like the WHO recommended or are our experts suddenly more qualified than anyone else in the world.


  • #3876
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭jackboy


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    New setback for Covid-19 vaccination as roll out to over-80s hit due to Moderna jab shortfall

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/new-setback-for-covid-19-vaccination-as-roll-out-to-over-80s-hit-due-to-moderna-jab-shortfall-40167770.html

    Disappointing news

    Maybe if they stop giving it to healthy people in their 70’s they will get the over 80’s sorted quicker.


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  • #3877
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,085 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Supply issues with AZ as well though


  • #3878
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,467 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    New setback for Covid-19 vaccination as roll out to over-80s hit due to Moderna jab shortfall

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/new-setback-for-covid-19-vaccination-as-roll-out-to-over-80s-hit-due-to-moderna-jab-shortfall-40167770.html

    Disappointing news

    Was flagged up last night, to be honest Moderna aren't delivering in big numbers as it is & the letter to GPs seems to imply its going to be a relatively short lived issue. Pfizer is doing the vast majority of heavy lifting in the over 70s & they say May remains on course to have all over 70s completed


  • #3879
    themacattack.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭themacattack.


    Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »
    So there are a lot of bad, selfish, and recklass law breaking people in Ireland. That's no reason not to pursue them and keep those observing the law safer.

    mind boggling stuff...yea lets clear out mountjoy and put the real scumbags in prison like walkers,joggers,people having picnics when the weather is nice....people are not selfish they are using their common sense to make decisions...rules and laws should not be followed at all costs if they dont make sense


  • #3880
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    themacattack. wrote: »
    mind boggling stuff...yea lets clear out mountjoy and put the real scumbags in prison like walkers,joggers,people having picnics when the weather is nice....people are not selfish they are using their common sense to make decisions...rules and laws should not be followed at all costs if thry dont make sense

    When you have someone defending Stephen Donnelly claiming he's only viewed as a prat because of his accent it's reasonable to dismiss everything else they say. A WUM in my opinion.


  • #3881
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭jackboy


    themacattack. wrote: »
    mind boggling stuff...yea lets clear out mountjoy and put the real scumbags in prison like walkers,joggers,people having picnics when the weather is nice....people are not selfish they are using their common sense to make decisions...rules and laws should not be followed at all costs if thry dont make sense

    Some people think that following the rules will beat the virus. It won’t. Avoiding the behaviours that significantly spread the virus is how to beat it. Calling the guards on people meeting outdoors is just sad behavior.


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  • #3882
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Just give them the AZ jab like the WHO recommended or are our experts suddenly more qualified than anyone else in the world.
    They didn't disagree but made a judgement call that the other two were better options for the age cohort which has borne the overwhelming brunt of COVID during this. 3-4 weeks between shots as against 12 weeks for AZ was likely a very big factor. Given the ongoing AZ supply issues we'd be doing well to get the over 70s done by July!


  • #3883
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Just give them the AZ jab like the WHO recommended or are our experts suddenly more qualified than anyone else in the world.
    AZ is recommended in Ireland for over 65s. Just the preference should be the vaccines with greater efficacy if they can be given in timely manner.
    Nothing there contradicts WHO btw
    Ireland also recommends those in high risk groups who may have lower immune responses to any vaccine be given the MRNA vaccine if it can administered in a timely manner.
    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    Our experts are the only ones who have identified the grave risks associated with construction and travel beyond 5km. I have no idea why you'd question their qualifications.

    None of experts described construction as a grave risk. The 5km limit is for limited exercise. There is a stay at home instruction in place. The current guidance is people shouldn't be venturing outside unless they have to our for a short period of exercise. They can travel beyond 5km for essential purposes. This fixation on the 5km as if it's an absolute travel or movement limit ignores that we're actually supposed to be camped in our homes whenever possible. Whether or not we should be is another matter but that's what not I'm addressing here.

    It'd be nice if people could avoid straw criticisms.


  • #3884
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Turtwig wrote: »
    I agree with what you're saying to a point. It's assumed you would be at great risk from the prop. It's never actually been tested afaik. Open to correction.
    There was a good Chinese study done very early which looked at case reports and found only 2 out of 7324 cases could be tied back to outdoor transmission.
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.04.20053058v1

    I haven't seen any studies on new variants and whether they are more transmissible outdoors.

    I've found very little evidence of genuine outdoor transmission where people are reasonably careful. There was a notorious White House superspreader event where a large group were seated outside which appeared to be clearly an outdoor incident, but subsequently it was discovered that there was an indoor element - that group were also hugging and kissing with zero attempt at any sort of distancing.

    Any of the cases I've seen reported on in Ireland which were associated with outdoors activities can usually be traced back to some indoor element - e.g. the pub at the golf course, car-pooling, GAA clubhouses. I seem to remember one outbreak associated with sport where it was thought that it might have occurred on a pitch, but I can't find the news report.

    The other thing here of course is that we are not aiming for zero risk. We could force everyone to remain indoors and deliver food to their doors, but that's not sustainable. If we can encourage people to have interactions only outdoors and go for that coffee in small groups, it'll give people a lower-risk outlet which will see them through to the Summer.


  • #3885
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    hmmm wrote: »
    There was a good Chinese study done very early which looked at case reports and found only 2 out of 1245 cases could be tied back to outdoor transmission.
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.04.20053058v1

    I haven't seen any studies on new variants and whether they are more transmissible outdoors.

    I've found very little evidence of genuine outdoor transmission where people are reasonably careful. There was a notorious White House superspreader event where a large group were seated outside which appeared to be clearly an outdoor incident, but subsequently it was discovered that there was an indoor element - that group were also hugging and kissing with zero attempt at any sort of distancing.

    Any of the cases I've seen reported on in Ireland which were associated with outdoors activities can usually be traced back to some indoor element - e.g. the pub at the golf course, car-pooling, GAA clubhouses. I seem to remember one outbreak associated with sport where it was thought that it might have occurred on a pitch, but I can't find the news report.

    The other thing here of course is that we are not aiming for zero risk. We could force everyone to remain indoors and deliver food to their doors, but that's not sustainable. If we can encourage people to have interactions only outdoors and go for that coffee in small groups, it'll give people a necessary outlet which will see them through to the Summer.

    Yeah I said in an earlier post the data was really limited. The countries with the tracing infrastructure simply haven't had enough COVID. Outdoor transmission would be harder to detect in the first place.

    I agree we're not aiming for zero risk. I think it's important though from the point of view of planning a reopening that a society knows what the risks are. As such, I suspect like you, we're being overly cautious with outdoor limits. Our messaging could also be better. People could be made better aware of what is and what isn't a risky activity or behaviour when outdoors. I was surprised last year that more wasn't done by pubs and restaurants to embrace outdoor services. Similar to online shopping many businesses refused to adapt.


  • #3886
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Yeah I said in an earlier post the data was really limited. The countries with the tracing infrastructure simply haven't had enough COVID. Outdoor transmission would be harder to detect in the first place.

    I agree we're not aiming for zero risk. I think it's important though from the point of view of planning a reopening that a society knows what the risks are. As such, I suspect like you, we're being overly cautious with outdoor limits. Our messaging could also be better. People could be made better aware of what is and what isn't a risky activity or behaviour when outdoors. I was surprised last year that more wasn't done by pubs and restaurants to embrace outdoor services. Similar to online shopping many businesses refused to adapt.

    The Irish climate is not suitable for outdoor services. A restaurant could spend a lot of money setting up and then a wet windy summer wipes them out. It would essentially be a gamble with poor enough odds.


  • #3887
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    jackboy wrote: »
    The Irish climate is not suitable for outdoor services. A restaurant could spend a lot of money setting up and then a wet windy summer wipes them out. It would essentially be a gamble with poor enough odds.
    The weather is nowhere near as bad as people seem to suggest. A day like today is glorious as long as you put on a warm coat.

    The choice this year may be open outdoors or not as all. We owe it those business who want to give it a go to help them.

    We've left it too late to plan for this however, this should have started months ago. We also have people busily coming up with convoluted ideas as to how everywhere can look like Paris - for the sake of businesses these people need to be asked to step aside as well, we need a plan for March 2021 and not post-pandemic life. Some outdoor benches and a cover over their heads would be enough.


  • #3888
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,012 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    themacattack. wrote: »
    mind boggling stuff...yea lets clear out mountjoy and put the real scumbags in prison like walkers,joggers,people having picnics when the weather is nice....people are not selfish they are using their common sense to make decisions...rules and laws should not be followed at all costs if they dont make sense

    So if people use their own judgement as to what laws to follow now and decide ‘what makes sense ‘ ?? :rolleyes:

    Unfortunately ‘ common sense ‘ is in short supply, covid has shown that, not only covid... but for years in this country...

    If I get pulled for doing 140 kmh in a 120 zone.. I tell the Garda who pulled me... “ look, the are feck all cars at this hour, it’s common sense I should be allowed to go faster “... that’s going to make our roads safer :rolleyes:

    Laws and regulations need to be black and white. They cannot be left open to interpretation.... if they are, people will deliberately interpret them to suit their own needs wants and whims...

    Some people need a big hot cup of cop the fûck on and remain as team players.


  • #3889
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    jackboy wrote: »
    The Irish climate is not suitable for outdoor services. A restaurant could spend a lot of money setting up and then a wet windy summer wipes them out. It would essentially be a gamble with poor enough odds.

    This just goes against everything I saw last year. People booked up outdoor dining regardless of the weather, all the way through until lockdown 2.

    When the choice is do nothing vs outdoor dining with some extra layers, it was pretty clear that people were willing to deal with the weather.


  • #3890
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭jackboy


    hmmm wrote: »
    The weather is nowhere near as bad as people seem to suggest. A day like today is glorious as long as you put on a warm coat.

    The choice this year may be open outdoors or not as all. We owe it those business who want to give it a go to help them.

    We've left it too late to plan for this however, this should have started months ago. We also have people busily coming up with convoluted ideas as to how everywhere can look like Paris - for the sake of businesses these people need to be asked to step aside as well, we need a plan for March 2021 and not post-pandemic life. Some outdoor benches and a cover over their heads would be enough.

    The weather is unpredictable and a terrible 6 to 8 weeks is not at all unusual. It’s not a realistic plan for most restaurants.


  • #3891
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Strumms wrote: »

    Laws and regulations need to be black and white. They cannot be left open to interpretation....

    Law is interpreted on a regular basis, AGS use discretion all the time.
    There is an absence of cop on all right although I doubt you would recognise the irony.


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  • #3892
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    jackboy wrote: »
    The weather is unpredictable and a terrible 6 to 8 weeks is not at all unusual. It’s not a realistic plan for most restaurants.
    And staying closed for the Summer until we have most of the vaccinations completed is a plan?


  • #3893
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,860 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Strumms wrote: »
    So if people use their own judgement as to what laws to follow now and decide ‘what makes sense ‘ ?? :rolleyes:

    Unfortunately ‘ common sense ‘ is in short supply, covid has shown that, not only covid... but for years in this country...

    If I get pulled for doing 140 kmh in a 120 zone.. I tell the Garda who pulled me... “ look, the are feck all cars at this hour, it’s common sense I should be allowed to go faster “... that’s going to make our roads safer :rolleyes:

    Laws and regulations need to be black and white. They cannot be left open to interpretation.... if they are, people will deliberately interpret them to suit their own needs wants and whims...

    Some people need a big hot cup of cop the fûck on and remain as team players.

    My eyes hurt


  • #3894
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭jackboy


    hmmm wrote: »
    And staying closed for the Summer until we have most of the vaccinations completed is a plan?

    That would actually be a better plan for a lot of restaurants. Spending a heap of money on the hope that we will have beautiful weather for the summer could work out or could just lead to more debt. Unless they get grants to upgrade their facilities I would expect a lot of restaurants wouldn’t take the gamble.


  • #3895
    NeuralNetwork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭NeuralNetwork


    I think Irish people have notions about the weather sometimes tbh and we’ve a historical local authority hatred of and paranoia about outdoor seating and endless charges, draconian rules and barriers to using it.

    We need a bit of rain shelter and wind breaks, but that’s about all. Mostly it’s not *that* cold from about now until late September.

    We don’t have guaranteed long hot summers but we have pretty pleasant outdoor weather. I’ve been eating outdoors a lot on any day I can at home. I use my patio and balcony all the time in summer and even now in spring and well into the the autumn.

    We’re a nation of moaners though when it comes to what is a relatively benign climate and we’ve a tendency to dress in the wrong clothes for the climate all the time - nobody seems to own a proper rain coat.

    I saw more people sitting outside in Bergen and Reykjavik than I’ve seen in Cork or Dublin and both have worse climates for al fresco dining than we have.


  • #3896
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    hmmm wrote: »
    And staying closed for the Summer until we have most of the vaccinations completed is a plan?

    I listened to a member of the restaurant association during the week. Firstly they need the red tape kept to a minimum , capital expenditure is also a factor particularly for businesses that have been closed for the best part of 12 months. The figures quoted for outdoor seating was € 1000 per cover. Also for a huge number of businesses outdoor dining/drinking due to location is not an option.


  • #3897
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    NeuralNetwork wrote: »
    I think Irish people have notions about the weather sometimes tbh and we’ve a historical local authority hatred of and paranoia about outdoor seating and endless charges, draconian rules and barriers to using it.

    We need a bit of rain shelter and wind breaks, but that’s about all. Mostly it’s not *that* cold from about now until late September.

    We don’t have guaranteed long hot summers but we have pretty pleasant outdoor weather. I’ve been eating outdoors a lot on any day I can at home. I use my patio and balcony all the time in summer and even now in spring and well into the the autumn.

    We’re a nation of moaners though when it comes to what is a relatively benign climate and we’ve a tendency to dress in the wrong clothes for the climate all the time - nobody seems to own a proper rain coat.

    I saw more people sitting outside in Bergen and Reykjavik than I’ve seen in Cork or Dublin and both have worse climates for al fresco dining than we have.

    A lot of Al Fresco luddites.


  • #3898
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,264 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    AdamD wrote: »
    This just goes against everything I saw last year. People booked up outdoor dining regardless of the weather, all the way through until lockdown 2.

    When the choice is do nothing vs outdoor dining with some extra layers, it was pretty clear that people were willing to deal with the weather.

    Defintely . Neighbours here sat out at a distance chatting with fleece blankets around them last March and April .They were willing to do that for a chat and a laugh . My friend who needed me last April came over and we sat out with hats , scarves and blankets in my front garden ,.Before Covid I would not have dreamed of sitting in my front garden in my hat and blanket !!


  • #3899
    themacattack.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭themacattack.


    Strumms wrote: »
    So if people use their own judgement as to what laws to follow now and decide ‘what makes sense ‘ ?? :rolleyes:

    Unfortunately ‘ common sense ‘ is in short supply, covid has shown that, not only covid... but for years in this country...

    If I get pulled for doing 140 kmh in a 120 zone.. I tell the Garda who pulled me... “ look, the are feck all cars at this hour, it’s common sense I should be allowed to go faster “... that’s going to make our roads safer :rolleyes:

    Laws and regulations need to be black and white. They cannot be left open to interpretation.... if they are, people will deliberately interpret them to suit their own needs wants and whims...

    Some people need a big hot cup of cop the fûck on and remain as team players.
    cmon now ...you are aware that im taking about covid rules and laws....again common sense might have gave you the hint with us being on a covid thread that i was referring to the covid rules and not bombing your car down the road at 140kmh per hour...i absolutley believe in the guards,the rule of law,the courts ect ect...but we have thrown all common sense out the window to deal with a relativey mild virus for most of the population...i agree with the law of the land pre-covid..what i dont agree with is idiotic new laws and rules that are destroying business,jobs,lives...we have been team players for 12 months now


  • #3900
    Natterjack from Kerry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Natterjack from Kerry


    themacattack. wrote: »
    rules and laws should not be followed at all costs if they dont make sense

    Unfortunately there are too many dimwits around to allow that. The problem with risk, covid, and pandemic management, is that people the wider public do not have the capability to make their own judgements. They need to be told by those capable of understanding the situation what to do. Smarter people follow the recommendations. The less smart need to be kept in line, for their own good, and that of wider sensible society.


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  • #3901
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »
    Unfortunately there are too many dimwits around to allow that. The problem with risk, covid, and pandemic management, is that people the wider public do not have the capability to make their own judgements. They need to be told by those capable of understanding the situation what to do. Smarter people follow the recommendations. The less smart need to be kept in line, for their own good, and that of wider sensible society.
    You forgot to add children should be seen and not heard to that Victorian view of Ireland!


This discussion has been closed.
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