WandaVision - Disney+ (Spoilers)

flazio · 06-03-2021 05:57PM

The White Wolf wrote: »

I think it's harsh to call it fan entitlement given it was clearly stunt casting to boost hype for the show.

But it is what it is, I'm not going to waste further breath on it other than say I hope to see more of Peters in the MCU.

Penn wrote: »

If there's one thing the MCU needs, it's more Bohner!

It's too good an opportunity for Deadpool 3 not to miss.

My hot take. I enjoyed it a lot. Great performances from all the leads and I can take or leave the bait switching going on with J Jonah and Pietro.

However, the pandemic saved the show a bit here, in which I mean if the cinemas were open I'd have preferred to have seen a 2.5 to 3 hour IMAX feature film then sitting in my living room in bright daylight every week. Realistically there was only enough meaningful content here for a movie, not a mini series.
Take the Mandalorian for example, each episode had a problem of the week, it's settled and you are left with a piece of either next weeks problem or something for the finalé. This was movie linear. No real "cliff hangers" as such.

Foxtrol · 06-03-2021 06:02PM

I said beforehand that I was very skeptical of the sitcom approach, always hating dream type sequences, but to me they succeeded beyond anything I could have hoped for. Everything that happened in the sitcom mattered and built into the story for everyone in the Hex and even outside it. The acting was superb and saw me seeing those characters as quite 'B-Team' characters in the other movies to being some of my favourites.

As an opener to Phase 4, it was pretty pitch perfect - getting stories going but not getting ahead of themselves like some seemed to hope or even nearly expect. Introducing mutants/multiverse/house of M/Fantastic 4 will all come but it was crazy to think it was all coming in the first show - Marvel simply dont do that (they aren't DC... :pac:).

It will be interesting to see if Marvel can work similar magic with Falcon and Winter Soldier, who are probably 'C-Team' heroes for many.

Lithium93_ · 06-03-2021 06:10PM

They'll have plenty to choose from anyways for the next Avengers film, whenever that rolls around.

Penn · 06-03-2021 06:13PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Everything that happened in the sitcom mattered and built into the story for everyone in the Hex and even outside it.

That's why thinking back on it, the earlier episodes were so important in setting up the horrors happening to the residents behind the scene. Vision's boss choking while his wife kept saying "Stop it", I think maybe he was choking but that Wanda had set up the Hex so that people couldn't die, so he was choking but would have just kept choking, and it would have felt like torture for him to keep choking and for Mrs.Hart to have to sit there watching it. Even the magic show where Vision lifts the piano and Wanda changes it to cardboard to cover for the powers, the guy with the moustache goes "That was my grandfather's piano". In the flashback episode where Wanda drives through the town, we see that guy posting up an ad for offering piano lessons, so it probably was his grandfather's piano.

I think the first few episodes did such a great job of setting up the little things that really add to the on-going tension and really backs up the reveal of the nightmare Wanda has accidentally been inflicting on them.

Foxtrol · 06-03-2021 06:14PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The pietro thing annoys me.
Disney bought Fox, Disney have the rights to those movies, and the guy played QS in those movies. If he was just some nobody Agnes used to mess with Wanda then he should have been some nobody Agnes used. Its not like Wanda knew there was an alt Pietro and this guy looks the exact same as him.

The ONLY reason to cast him as QS is to plant the exact theories that the fans came up with. Fans didn't read too much into it, fans read exactly what the showrunners wanted them to read into it.

For it to have ment nothing is a massive slap in the face to the fans, imo.

With the rumours of Toby Maguire and Andrew Garfield in Spider-Man 3, will they also just be some randoms if they are in it? If they are in it will it be the fans fault for expecting some connection with the Spider-Man movies?

Disagree strongly with this take on QS. Sure instigating talk was part of the casting but using him has massive consequences, by doing this MCU have sent out a message and basically killed any type of potential cross-over between Fox's X-Men universe. That is huge in the grand scheme of things and likely a big downer for a lot of theory click sites - who I can see already pushing back.

I don't get how you (and many others) would be frustrated if 'rumours' aren't followed through on by Marvel, like the roles of previous Spider-men. It is completely fans own fault for building up theories in their heads to such an extent that they can't handle when they don't come true.

I learned the lesson after the first few seasons of Lost - enjoy the speculation but don't go down the rabbit hole so far that if they don't go the way I want that I'd be frustrated. The way some folk get so annoyed by red herrings makes me wonder how they read any books or watch TV or movies. It seems to a growing problem, which I'm not sure is amplified by those sites that make their money by pushing theories.

Lithium93_ · 06-03-2021 06:41PM

That and Marvel, already apparently have the new X-Men film in development.

Foxtrol · 06-03-2021 06:49PM

FunLover18 wrote: »

I definitely need to watch it again now that my expectations have been lowered because I did find that underwhelming and I think, like others have mentioned, my expectations were heavily influenced by the speculation and theories when in reality the story was a very simple one and that’s not necessarily a criticism.

I was disappointed by the “villains” however, I thought they were poorly written in terms of their motives and when you look back at the show they never really posed any threat. Neither Agatha nor Hayward were proactive in any meaningful way, in fact for the majority of the series they were as clueless as to what was going on as the audience which isn’t something you want from your big bad. Agatha spent 1-2 weeks pretending to fit in as the nosy neighbour trying to figure out what Wanda is up to and then turns into a fairly rote “I want your power” villain, we don’t know why she wants her power or what she wants to do with it, we really don’t know anything about Agatha or what she’s been up to since the witch trial scene, which is a shame because I think they could have had a lot more fun with her being immortal and utilised Hahn more. She was way more entertaining in her nosy neighbour character but as soon as the reveal happened, that playfulness and sense of mischief vanished, the Wizard of Oz reference was good but it was a visual gag where Agatha wasn’t even on screen. I wanted to see the villain who would think to do that and I didn’t.

Hayward also was just a run of the mill evil military man who wanted a new toy to play with and similar to Agatha he was an observer of Wandavision from the outset. Why send White Vision to destroy Vision when he literally witnessed Vision falling apart when he tried to leave the Hex, why send WV into the Hex at all when you already have what you want. Again I felt his motives and characterisation were weak.

I enjoyed the Vision off (Visioff?), the way they used their phasing powers against each other was really cool and inventive and as has been said the philosophical climax was very clever. I am also confused as to what happened WV though and find it strange that no one in the show seemed to care about this. I wish I could say I enjoyed Wanda vs Agatha as much but two people throwing balls of light at each other was really boring and disappointing, maybe they used all the budget on the Visions but I expected a lot more from two witches who can manipulate reality.

A few other small things that annoyed me:
What took Vision so long to get to Wanda from the van, a small nitpick

Agatha spent so long manipulating Vision, almost encouraging him to see the truth and I don’t think we got a single noteable interaction between them in the finale

I’m still confused as to how Agatha gave Ralph super speed

I just needed to get all the negatives feelings out there, overall I did enjoy and I think I’ll enjoy it more when I rewatch it with the knowledge of what’s coming.

On the Evan Peters’s casting; I’ve made my views clear before, I think it was a really fun wink but more importantly I thought he was great in the role and he had good chemistry with Olsen. There does seem to be a note of fan entitlement in some posts I’ve seen, I get that people are disappointed but to take it as personally as some people seem to be is a bit much.

I see the villains very differently. I believe the whole point was not to have an obvious 'big bad' because they wanted it to be unclear to the audience whether it was Wanda or not. It worked that the villains were as much of a loss as what was going on as we were and were kind of dealing things on the fly.

I enjoyed that approach far more than the normal knowing who the bad guy is going to be from the first episode or two and then learning their complicated plan as the season goes on.

kerplun k · 06-03-2021 07:15PM

The White Wolf wrote: »

I think it's harsh to call it fan entitlement given it was clearly stunt casting to boost hype for the show.

But it is what it is, I'm not going to waste further breath on it other than say I hope to see more of Peters in the MCU.

Yeah, obviously with his name the thing was supposed to be a joke, but it fell flat and wasn’t funny and actually came across kinda awkward. Anyhews your right, the less said about it, the better.

RedRochey · 06-03-2021 08:09PM

Falcon and winter soldier confirmed for the 19th

pjohnson · 06-03-2021 08:53PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Disagree strongly with this take on QS. Sure instigating talk was part of the casting but using him has massive consequences, by doing this MCU have sent out a message and basically killed any type of potential cross-over between Fox's X-Men universe. That is huge in the grand scheme of things and likely a big downer for a lot of theory click sites - who I can see already pushing back.

I don't get how you (and many others) would be frustrated if 'rumours' aren't followed through on by Marvel, like the roles of previous Spider-men. It is completely fans own fault for building up theories in their heads to such an extent that they can't handle when they don't come true.

I learned the lesson after the first few seasons of Lost - enjoy the speculation but don't go down the rabbit hole so far that if they don't go the way I want that I'd be frustrated. The way some folk get so annoyed by red herrings makes me wonder how they read any books or watch TV or movies. It seems to a growing problem, which I'm not sure is amplified by those sites that make their money by pushing theories.

I saw a few X-Fans on twitter/reddit now lamenting the fact that X-Men are under Marvel and now just dick jokes and cosplay when it comes to Feige. A shame since pre-buyout there had been two good Mutant shows. A large portion now seem to have reduced expectations to something probably worse than Inhumans and are just going back to the current X-Comics rennaisance for pleasure.

Fans of mutants now have no expectation so cant be dissapointed. I guess thats a win, although they similarly arent interested in Falcon & WS anymore since they assume the "Madripoor" leak is just more trolling so thats not great. And expectations for actually doing a proper Deadpool movie also reduced.

It cost Fox a lot of money to beat the expectations to zero, this was cheaper :pac:

kerplun k · 06-03-2021 11:15PM

pjohnson wrote: »

I saw a few X-Fans on twitter/reddit now lamenting the fact that X-Men are under Marvel and now just dick jokes and cosplay when it comes to Feige. A shame since pre-buyout there had been two good Mutant shows. A large portion now seem to have reduced expectations to something probably worse than Inhumans and are just going back to the current X-Comics rennaisance for pleasure.

Fans of mutants now have no expectation so cant be dissapointed. I guess thats a win, although they similarly arent interested in Falcon & WS anymore since they assume the "Madripoor" leak is just more trolling so thats not great. And expectations for actually doing a proper Deadpool movie also reduced.

It cost Fox a lot of money to beat the expectations to zero, this was cheaper :pac:

Kevin Feige wrote: »

No more mutants....

Foxtrol · 06-03-2021 11:49PM

pjohnson wrote: »

I saw a few X-Fans on twitter/reddit now lamenting the fact that X-Men are under Marvel and now just dick jokes and cosplay when it comes to Feige. A shame since pre-buyout there had been two good Mutant shows. A large portion now seem to have reduced expectations to something probably worse than Inhumans and are just going back to the current X-Comics rennaisance for pleasure.

Fans of mutants now have no expectation so cant be dissapointed. I guess thats a win, although they similarly arent interested in Falcon & WS anymore since they assume the "Madripoor" leak is just more trolling so thats not great. And expectations for actually doing a proper Deadpool movie also reduced.

It cost Fox a lot of money to beat the expectations to zero, this was cheaper :pac:

To me that is simply a crazy of being overdramatic from those fans. MCU in general builds their world slowly and methodically and Feige had even come out saying they wouldn't be diving into mutants.

The Fox X-Universe had some bright spots but it was a complete mess continuity wise. I get fans wanting another hit of characters they love but surely they should have trust in how MCU built out the characters they had rights to and then perfectly incorporated a new Spider-Man, who is widely adored.

The build up MCU do has so far always been worth it, so if expectations of those fans is now down to normal levels then they'll likely love where it takes them.

I still feel they'll go the route of slowly 'seeding' mutant characters into other properties before any sort of Mutant standalone movie (e.g., Storm in BP2, Rogue in CM 2), I'm now not sure if they'll have a big bang event that we'll see to cause the mutants appearing, like Wanda, or else rely on something that has already happened, like the multiple snaps on earth.

kerplun k · 06-03-2021 11:53PM

Funny how WandaVision has really set the expectations for FatWS & Loki. There’ll be zero appetite to go into any sort of in depth post mortem of the weekly episodes now.

For me it’s clear the TV shows won’t have any major implications for the movies. There’ll probably be a soft lead in to the movies, but I won’t think any of these shows will be essential viewing for the films.

Insect Overlord · 07-03-2021 12:03AM

kerplun k wrote: »

Funny how WandaVision has really set the expectations for FatWS & Loki. There’ll be zero appetite to go into any sort of in depth post mortem of the weekly episodes now.

Oh. How awfully pessimistic.

pjohnson · 07-03-2021 12:12AM

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Oh. How awfully pessimistic.

Meh. People got burned expecting great world building/relevant things from this. Cant blame them for not making same mistakes again tbf.

The shows will probably develop the leads quite well like Wandavision did. It revived Vision and got Wanda transformed to Scarlet Witch.

Absolutely no point bothering to look any deeper or fall for the clickbait seeds. Just take it at face value only and move on.

pjohnson · 07-03-2021 12:16AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

To me that is simply a crazy of being overdramatic from those fans. MCU in general builds their world slowly and methodically and Feige had even come out saying they wouldn't be diving into mutants.

The Fox X-Universe had some bright spots but it was a complete mess continuity wise. I get fans wanting another hit of characters they love but surely they should have trust in how MCU built out the characters they had rights to and then perfectly incorporated a new Spider-Man, who is widely adored.

The build up MCU do has so far always been worth it, so if expectations of those fans is now down to normal levels then they'll likely love where it takes them.

I still feel they'll go the route of slowly 'seeding' mutant characters into other properties before any sort of Mutant standalone movie (e.g., Storm in BP2, Rogue in CM 2), I'm now not sure if they'll have a big bang event that we'll see to cause the mutants appearing, like Wanda, or else rely on something that has already happened, like the multiple snaps on earth.

The MCU didn't have Andrew Garfield as a cosplayer dressed as SpiderMan swinging around the place only to then reveal its actually just Phil Dicks all along.

kerplun k · 07-03-2021 12:17AM

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Oh. How awfully pessimistic.

Fool me once....

Penn · 07-03-2021 12:21AM

pjohnson wrote: »

The MCU didn't have Andrew Garfield as a cosplayer dressed as SpiderMan swinging around the place only to then reveal its actually just Phil Dicks all along.

That'd still be better than The Amazing Spider-Man 2...

klose · 07-03-2021 12:34AM

kerplun k wrote: »

Funny how WandaVision has really set the expectations for FatWS & Loki. There’ll be zero appetite to go into any sort of in depth post mortem of the weekly episodes now.

For me it’s clear the TV shows won’t have any major implications for the movies. There’ll probably be a soft lead in to the movies, but I won’t think any of these shows will be essential viewing for the films.

I'm not so sure, Wanda has went from a B tier avenger to one of the strongest in the catalogue over the course of this show, assuming if her next appearance is doctor strange and you have not watched the show you'd be rightly confused by her change.

On that topic, I wonder will there some sort of recap or flashback sequence to fill in cinema goers who have not viewed any of the disney plus series as to why characters such as Wanda have developed?

beakerjoe · 07-03-2021 12:48AM

pjohnson wrote: »

The MCU didn't have Andrew Garfield as a cosplayer dressed as SpiderMan swinging around the place only to then reveal its actually just Phil Dicks all along.

Was it that bad though. I took ut as a more of a clever nod than a big FU. I liked it, it didnt spoil the show for me at all.

Marvel did a fine job building phase 1 to 3. Look at the first few movies and hiw they ended up with Endgame. Slow, forward planning. To insert Xmen now would be a huge shoehorn.

Havent got great expectations for the next show, which is down to my lack of love for Falcon and WS rather than how this show went. In anything, WandaVision has reminded me I should trust Marvel to do a good job.

FunLover18 · 07-03-2021 12:59AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I see the villains very differently. I believe the whole point was not to have an obvious 'big bad' because they wanted it to be unclear to the audience whether it was Wanda or not. It worked that the villains were as much of a loss as what was going on as we were and were kind of dealing things on the fly.

I enjoyed that approach far more than the normal knowing who the bad guy is going to be from the first episode or two and then learning their complicated plan as the season goes on.

I didn't mind not knowing who the villain is either and having a slow build up and reveal but the reveal here was that the villains were almost as clueless as we were which for me detracted from their threat and neither of them really had a plan at all. Like thinking about it, did Agatha even need to be a villain, could she not have been revealed to be a older wiser witch who saw a younger grieving witch who couldn't control her powers, that could have been far more interesting.

I need to rewatch the series as a whole to see how things for together but it does feel a bit like they needed a villain for Wanda to fight.

Coybig_ · 07-03-2021 02:42AM

3 Episodes in and it's very hard viewing.

From the first minute of episode 1 you know that something isn't right, but the tiny reveal or 'glitch in the matrix' in each of the first 3 episodes just confirms that, yes, something isn't right. Writers, we know this. You need to give us a little bit more! Yes the third one has a bigger 'glitch' but it still fills 90-95 percent of the episode with sitcom.

As a standalone episode I have no problem with the sitcom approach - Mr.Robot (one of my favourite shows) did this in Season 2, but it was just 1 episode rather than the 3 (so far).

99% of it is just this irrelevant sitcom that doesn't really develop the characters in any way whatsoever. Very little actual substance.

As a show it seems to rely on the fact that it has a huge existing fanbase with the expectation that they need to watch each offering to know where the universe stands going into the next property. Thus it feels comfortable offering very little, because it doesn't feel pressured to keep the viewer interested.

I'll keep going reluctantly just so I'm up to date going into the next show or movie, but Marvel seem to be having so many more misses than hits recently that the goodwill that they build up is fading. They had an almost uninterrupted run of very good to great films in Phase 3, from Civil War all the way to Infinity War (Dr Strange being the lone outlier). Since the brilliance of Infinity War - Ant Man and the Wasp, Captain Marvel, Endgame and Spiderman Far from Home were all (in my opinion) at best below average.

Hopefully this picks up.

AlmightyCushion · 07-03-2021 02:53AM

Coybig_ wrote: »

3 Episodes in and it's very hard viewing.

From the first minute of episode 1 you know that something isn't right, but the tiny reveal or 'glitch in the matrix' in each of the first 3 episodes just confirms that, yes, something isn't right. Writers, we know this. You need to give us a little bit more! Yes the third one has a bigger 'glitch' but it still fills 90-95 percent of the episode with sitcom.

As a standalone episode I have no problem with the sitcom approach - Mr.Robot (one of my favourite shows) did this in Season 2, but it was just 1 episode rather than the 3 (so far).

99% of it is just this irrelevant sitcom that doesn't really develop the characters in any way whatsoever. Very little actual substance.

As a show it seems to rely on the fact that it has a huge existing fanbase with the expectation that they need to watch each offering to know where the universe stands going into the next property. Thus it feels comfortable offering very little, because it doesn't feel pressured to keep the viewer interested.

I'll keep going reluctantly just so I'm up to date going into the next show or movie, but Marvel seem to be having so many more misses than hits recently that the goodwill that they build up is fading. They had an almost uninterrupted run of very good to great films in Phase 3, from Civil War all the way to Infinity War (Dr Strange being the lone outlier). Since the brilliance of Infinity War - Ant Man and the Wasp, Captain Marvel, Endgame and Spiderman Far from Home were all (in my opinion) at best below average.

Hopefully this picks up.

Stick with it. The sitcom bits take a big backseat from here. They are still in some episodes and they still aren't funny but they make up much less runtime of the episodes they are in.

wes · 07-03-2021 06:39AM

I enjoyed the show overall, with the exception of the whole Quicksilver thing, that was pure trolling, and I remember thinking that they would piss people off, if they went in the direction of trolling people.

Now with that exception out of the way, it was a fun show. Wanda's grief and her at least initially unintentionally lashing out and hurting people in Westview was an interesting way to go, as opposed to her being controlled by someone else. Her actions are her own.

I think she will be the villain in Doctor Strange, having been corupted by her power.

FileNotFound · 07-03-2021 06:42AM

Falcon and winter soldier next.

Going to be tons of spinoffs

I think quicksilver was added to allow some kind of reboot

The White Wolf · 07-03-2021 09:44AM

kerplun k wrote: »

Funny how WandaVision has really set the expectations for FatWS & Loki. There’ll be zero appetite to go into any sort of in depth post mortem of the weekly episodes now.

For me it’s clear the TV shows won’t have any major implications for the movies. There’ll probably be a soft lead in to the movies, but I won’t think any of these shows will be essential viewing for the films.

I expect FatWS to be much more standard fare as the story isn't going to throw up too much mystery (well I'm assuming that).

But yeah I fear for Loki. That sh1t is going to ramp hysteria up to 100 again.

ArthurG · 07-03-2021 10:12AM

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMerNQooA/

I’ll get my coat.....

The Inbetween is mine · 07-03-2021 11:10AM

ArthurG wrote: »

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMerNQooA/

I’ll get my coat.....

You're not far wrong though

Coybig_ · 07-03-2021 11:59AM

Watched episode 4 and 5 and a slight improvement if only because there is some semblance of a plot. I feel like a lot of the information delivered in episode 4 could have been weaved into episode 2 and Episode 3 and the show would have been better for it.

I initially didnt even recognise who Monica was, which I guess is telling of just how forgettable and poor Captain Marvel was as a movie.

I am over half way in and it really feels like they stretched 2 or 3 episodes of content into 5. When you compare this to Daredevil as a series, bar a few episodes of DD season 2, the gap in quality is almost unquantifiable.

I was particularly annoyed about the scene after the snap, because we saw so little of it! Yet again Marvel afraid to deal with what should be the real fallout of the snap, and the complicated ramifications of it. Too quickly brushed aside in Far from Home and now this.

I dont know am I in the minority and I'm delighted if people liked it, but just falling very flat for me thus far. Hopefully the final 4 episodes can improve.

gmisk · 07-03-2021 12:25PM

Enjoyed that last episode, and overall I really enjoyed the series massively overall.
I really liked how it leaned into the weirdness especially in those opening episodes.

the last episode was very action packed as I suppose it tends to be (in pretty much every MCU film anyway!) But I also felt quite emotionally involved, which surprised me. Kathryn Hahn mvp as usual! But Olsen has been excellent as well. Fairly nearly tied up with a few loose ends to be picked up on other shows and movies. Need to watch for post credits again.

WandaVision - Disney+ (***Spoilers***)

Comments

WandaVision - Disney+ (Spoilers)