Justice League Spoilers from post 980 onward

The White Wolf · 27-02-2021 10:36PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

They have released a statement from 1 of 3 investigations why not release a statement from all 3 investigators?

Unless the other two investigators statements contradict what the released one is saying.

At this stage now Fisher needs to stop beating around the bush and just say what happened or just stop.

Well legally speaking Fisher is tied up in knots I imagine. I'm sure he'd like to be more specific but literally can't otherwise he's going to get sued beyond what would be a life worth living.

It's pretty desperate that this was WB's smoking gun statement when the credibility of this investigator is in doubt putting I mildly.

Need a Username · 27-02-2021 10:56PM

silverharp wrote: »

i dont read comics, as far as films go they should be self contained and enough there to work with. With the new Superman and Lois show they are setting up a bridge between rural and urban America and seem to making a good job of it.
JJ almost guarantees the film will be at best vapid

I saw this 2019 meme bouncing around recently, i'd be focusing more on how the film be a ruined rather than looking for neckbeards to be upset

That image sums it up

ThePott · 27-02-2021 11:39PM

The White Wolf wrote: »

Well legally speaking Fisher is tied up in knots I imagine.

I don't know how tbh. If there was something illegal then an NDA should be void. If nothing illegal took place he should be able to speak on it assuming it is verifiable. He's said that the reaons they haven't sued him is because what he's said is true (as to what he's actually said that would be actionable is another question).

What he has implied though is that multiple people have been part of a massive cover up of abuse and that the upper echelon of WB obstructed an investigation. That would be actionable on their part but they are unlikely to because of the optics of it and would seemingly prove what he has implied.

It's like a big game of chicken.

The Phantom Pain · 28-02-2021 01:47AM

I’m all for a Superman reboot but I’m not hopeful. The problem with Superman is that WB hates him. I remember Mark Waid (prolific comic book writer) said that he used to be in those meetings with WB suits and the general take was that they think Superman is lame and they want him to be like Batman. That’s how we ended up with Man of Steel - a film made by people who don’t like Superman trying to unSuperman him.

Penn wrote: »

WB and DC rebooting Superman, with JJ Abrams to produce and Ta-Nehisi Coates to write.

Wonder do they go full reboot or give Henry Cavill another shot at the cape in a new story. Cavill could have been a fantastic Clark/Supes in the right movie. Would be a real shame if this is the end, but maybe a non-moustache Justice League is now all we have left from him.

Agreed. With the right director and script Cavill could have been amazing; he certainly has the perfect Superman look. He’s just too heavily associated with the failure of the DCEU now that in order for WB to truly redeem Superman, sadly, Cavill has to go.

Penn wrote: »

I'm just glad JJ Abrams isn't writing/directing, otherwise we'd get the same story as Superman 1 but with some minor changes.

I don’t think so. Superman Returns shows what happens when you write what is essential 2 hours and a bit of fan fiction for the Christopher Reeve Superman. (and to Abram’s credit, The Force Awakens remains my favourite Star Wars movie)

The White Wolf wrote: »

A Black Superman would possibly be the boldest move in the genre yet.

Now that Cavill is getting closure with JL I'd actually like to see them go there. It would finally put to bed the painful arguments about what Superman "should" be on screen.

A black Superman/Clark Kent would be the stupidest idea WB has ever come up with. Yes, there has been a black Superman in the comics but he was not Clark and additionally you can’t start introducing new iterations of a character without doing the original justice first. We still need a good run with black haired, blue-eyed Clark Kent for modern audiences before we start experimenting. WB would never do this with Batman in their films because they would never risk the Batman brand like that. I read upthread about how a black Superman “would underline his immigrant status” which literally made me laugh out loud. Black people are not exactly immigrants to Earth and they’re not even the first immigrants to America. The biggest population of immigrants in America is white people A.K.A the Europeans seeing as America belonged to the Natives first.

ThePott wrote: »

Michael B Jordan was rumoured for this a long time ago, he also apparently pitched them a Black Superman idea not long ago around the time JJ appeared on the scene. Make no mistake this was a reactionary move, the rumour first started September of 2018 the same year as Black Panther. They looked at BP's box office and thought what if.

Which just goes to show that Hollywood learns the wrong lessons from success stories (it’s why we ended up with mopey Superman after the Dark Knight trilogy).

ThePott wrote: »

Some people are dumping on the idea and other people are calling it a brave move but to be entirely honest.
Warner Bros hasn't managed to nail a Superman film in 40 years. They have nothing left to lose at this stage. He's a character that they see as a disappointment regardless of how much they milk him.

The mentality that WB has “nothing left to lose” is what is killing the Superman brand. People do like Superman…when he’s done right. WB thinks they have a “Superman problem” but they don’t; they have a “WB problem” and that’s why the DCEU will never be as successful as the MCU.

28-02-2021 10:07AM

Somewhat related, the Superman and Lois pilot came out the other day and it really took a fresh approach to superman. Really enjoyed it.

pixelburp · 28-02-2021 10:15AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Somewhat related, the Superman and Lois pilot came out the other day and it really took a fresh approach to superman. Really enjoyed it.

Yeah I'm hearing a lot of good things, and it doesn't look like a typical CW production which is nice. Like they actually hired people who can shoot a scene in a vaguely interesting way.

ThePott · 28-02-2021 11:41AM

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

Which just goes to show that Hollywood learns the wrong lessons from success stories (it’s why we ended up with mopey Superman after the Dark Knight trilogy).

The DCEU has always been quite reactionary, to a fault. It's what's lead to an inconsistent tone and quality in their output.

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

The mentality that WB has “nothing left to lose” is what is killing the Superman brand. People do like Superman…when he’s done right. WB thinks they have a “Superman problem” but they don’t; they have a “WB problem” and that’s why the DCEU will never be as successful as the MCU.

I don't disagree. Superman is a character that there is absolutely massive money in but they mishandle him consistently. They wrongly assume that it is a character that is outdated because they haven't gotten it to work since Superman II. If they think the American Boy Scout character can't work in this day and age then how did Marvel get Captain America to work. It's all about how you handle the character. They just keep learning the wrong lessons. First it was, look at Dark Knight, a darker realistic Superman could work. Then it was, look at the Avengers, let's build to Justice League, quickly. They don't understand how to handle these characters and now they have this half formed universe they don't know what to do with. It's a mess.

mikhail · 28-02-2021 12:46PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Why not, as said the tale of Superman is that of the ultimate immigrant story; so why not make Clark black to underline the point? It could work perfectly well.

The neckbeard rage will be epic though. I daresay even the Ben Shapiro's of the world will get involved too; they had a fit when "truth justice and the American way" got shelved back in the day. This will cause collective aneurysms

I'd like to see a black Superman. There's an interesting story to be told about a black kid being raised by adoptive (white?) parents in the mid-west, and about a Superman who some people can't accept because of the colour of his skin (and who saves them anyway because he's a hero). I'm thinking of the monologue in Kill Bill part 2 about how Superman is the only hero whose costume is who he really is - that Clarke Kent is the disguise and implicitly his criticism of humanity - and race would add an edge to that angle on the character. I can only imagine how heavy-handedly it'd be written though, to the point where I fear it would be unwatchable.

Penn · 28-02-2021 01:01PM

ThePott wrote: »

The DCEU has always been quite reactionary, to a fault. It's what's lead to an inconsistent tone and quality in their output.

I don't disagree. Superman is a character that there is absolutely massive money in but they mishandle him consistently. They wrongly assume that it is a character that is outdated because they haven't gotten it to work since Superman II. If they think the American Boy Scout character can't work in this day and age then how did Marvel get Captain America to work. It's all about how you handle the character. They just keep learning the wrong lessons. First it was, look at Dark Knight, a darker realistic Superman could work. Then it was, look at the Avengers, let's build to Justice League, quickly. They don't understand how to handle these characters and now they have this half formed universe they don't know what to do with. It's a mess.

Man of Steel was just "Imagine what a burden it must be to be Superman". Which is a fair enough question to ask, but the trouble was it wasn't balanced in any way with the good. Then in Batman V Superman, they took Batman to the very limits of his darkness with the 'Dark Knight Returns' aspect. But then instead of contrasting that with the light and hopeful side of Superman's character, they just continued with "It still sucks to be Superman". Which means we got a dark and gloomy Batman V a slightly less dark and gloomy Superman. Hell they even 'dark and gloomy-ed' Wonder Woman in it by revealing she turned her back on humanity for decades.

They don't need to go the cheery jokey Marvel route with the characters, but if you have a character who literally wears a symbol of hope on his chest, give the audience a glimpse of that hope once in a while. One of my favourite scenes in Man of Steel is the end where Superman crashes General Swanwick's drone, because it really felt like seeing what Superman could become in a sequel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYkvRm_Zokk

silverharp · 28-02-2021 01:13PM

mikhail wrote: »

I'd like to see a black Superman. There's an interesting story to be told about a black kid being raised by adoptive (white?) parents in the mid-west, and about a Superman who some people can't accept because of the colour of his skin (and who saves them anyway because he's a hero). I'm thinking of the monologue in Kill Bill part 2 about how Superman is the only hero whose costume is who he really is - that Clarke Kent is the disguise and implicitly his criticism of humanity - and race would add an edge to that angle on the character. I can only imagine how heavy-handedly it'd be written though, to the point where I fear it would be unwatchable.

i kinda think if you can play it out in your head, why would you want to see it? Coates I picture wanting to use the film as a megaphone and lay it on thick. Set the film in the 60's for extra spice lol

People go to superhero films to switch their brains off, the market is centered around kids and parents bringing their kids or as least it my case it is, if I want social commentary Ill watch a film like Green Book.

ThePott · 28-02-2021 01:21PM

Penn wrote: »

They don't need to go the cheery jokey Marvel route with the characters, but if you have a character who literally wears a symbol of hope on his chest, give the audience a glimpse of that hope once in a while. One of my favourite scenes in Man of Steel is the end where Superman crashes General Swanwick's drone, because it really felt like seeing what Superman could become in a sequel.

I agree, in fact I think Man of Steel being used as a basis to get us to the Superman character we know (on paper at least) works. I remember seeing MOS and thinking well it looks like we're going to get a more hopeful Superman now and thinking that's great.

When I started seeing previews for BvS, I knew what the problem was going to be. Despite the fact that Batman and Superman would be so easy to juxtapose against each other, they'd fumbled it. When they stuck with having Superman be dark and gloomy then you have no choice but to make Batman even darker, the line blurs even further and it doesn't work when the characters are meant to be opposing each other especially.

The dumb criticism I always see though is that DC is dark and therefore mature and not like Marvel. Especially the way that the DCEU has done 'dark'. The Dark Knight despite being dark had plenty of levity and cheese to it that people are happy to overlook. People saying that Marvel can't do dark are wrong too, Infinity War was pretty dark but it balances it well. Wonder Woman has a balance of dark and serious with moments of levity and dare I say, wonder. Snyder doesn't want to present them as heroes. He wants them presented as conflicted and flawed Gods, while that can be interesting I don't personally think he has the skill to pull something like that off successfully, certainly not within the realms of a studio blockbuster with a familiar IP like DC superheroes.

Drumpot · 28-02-2021 01:38PM

Imagine they had the avengers movie just after iron man. It wouldn’t of been nearly as enjoyable as it was.

Regardless of what people think of Snyder or the movies he makes, he was given an unenviable task of trying to introduce an awful lot of characters over 2 movies (BvS and JL).

Another issue is that there is a unique brand to Snyder that I don’t think would work like the marvel movies that all Nicely fit together. That’s not an insult, I love the marvel movies, just finished watching them all in sequence and it was glorious. But I don’t want or need DC to follow the same formula as marvel. Marvel do enough marvel type movies , dc need to be different and at least with Snyder they tried (whether you think it was good or not).

WW and Aquaman movies just don’t fit as seamless into the Snyder verse as the likes of iron man, Thor and the cap fit into the a avengers assemble movie.

I think superman is a difficult character to bring to the big screen as he’s so over powered. His main weakness is Lois lane, kryptonite and other kryptonians. Marvels super hero’s had plenty of vulnerability’s until they brought captain marvel in who is a character taht sort of ruins the team like superman just showing up in JL and practically toying with steppanwolf.

In terms of the Snyder cut I’m looking forward to it. I’m not expecting it to be amazing or anything, just happy to see what he wouid of tried to do particularly with no oversight. Some people seem to be annoyed at this, I don’t know why, it’s no skin off anybody else’s skin that this has been made. There are no losers with the Snyder cut so it should be a positively fascinating thing to look forward to if you have any interest in this topic.

pixelburp · 28-02-2021 01:44PM

silverharp wrote: »

i kinda think if you can play it out in your head, why would you want to see it? Coates I picture wanting to use the film as a megaphone and lay it on thick. Set the film in the 60's for extra spice lol

People go to superhero films to switch their brains off, the market is centered around kids and parents bringing their kids or as least it my case it is, if I want social commentary Ill watch a film like Green Book.

Were that 100% true, Black Panther would have bombed though. Or indeed Captain Marvel (a slightly bad example as I think that was an awful script) Social commentary and blockbuster entertainment isn't mutually exclusive, good writers can thread both and really good writers do it without you having even realised.

Coates' own background in comics is writing for Black Panther - and a fairly lauded run IIRC - so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt he can walk that line of superficial thrills and some commentary here and there.

It's the studios that often throw grenades into writers intentions, that's where the clash can often come.

silverharp · 28-02-2021 09:19PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Were that 100% true, Black Panther would have bombed though. Or indeed Captain Marvel (a slightly bad example as I think that was an awful script) Social commentary and blockbuster entertainment isn't mutually exclusive, good writers can thread both and really good writers do it without you having even realised.

Coates' own background in comics is writing for Black Panther - and a fairly lauded run IIRC - so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt he can walk that line of superficial thrills and some commentary here and there.

It's the studios that often throw grenades into writers intentions, that's where the clash can often come.

I dont remember Black Panther being preachy and I got the satire of Wakanda being an ethno-nationalist isolationist state, it depends how its done I guess

Lithium93_ · 04-03-2021 04:56PM

The films mammoth run time is split into 6 chapters..

Need a Username · 04-03-2021 09:08PM

Superman better be in red & blue.

ThePott · 04-03-2021 09:57PM

Need a Username wrote: »

Superman better be in red & blue.

Prepare to be let down

dublinman1990 · 05-03-2021 02:52AM

A teaser for Batman has appeared.

https://batman-news.com/2021/03/04/zack-snyders-justice-league-batman-teaser-video/

The White Wolf · 05-03-2021 07:13AM

Darkseid sounds exactly as I hoped he would anyway.

Really cool clip of Superman litterally pulling Batman up and out of the dark and into the light.

Need a Username · 05-03-2021 09:00AM

ThePott wrote: »

Prepare to be let down

Are you just being pessimistic or do you know something?

CramCycle · 05-03-2021 11:24AM

Need a Username wrote: »

Are you just being pessimistic or do you know something?

He is in all the trailers in Black, might be red and blue in flashbacks or at the end of the movie as an outro but I imagine for most of it he is in Black for the regenerative suit thing, not sure if they will go into that though.

senordingdong · 05-03-2021 11:41AM

Lithium93_ wrote: »

The films mammoth run time is split into 6 chapters..

Works for Tarantino.

Need a Username · 05-03-2021 02:27PM

CramCycle wrote: »

He is in all the trailers in Black, might be red and blue in flashbacks or at the end of the movie as an outro but I imagine for most of it he is in Black for the regenerative suit thing, not sure if they will go into that though.

I don’t like that but at least I know to not expect the red&blue in the big fight.

ThePott · 05-03-2021 03:00PM

Need a Username wrote: »

Are you just being pessimistic or do you know something?

Well assuming the end of the movie is largely the same with the team assembled after defeating Steppenwolf, he is in the black suit. That's the basis for my assumption.
Good chance he won't be wearing the red and blue because Snyder had a 5 film arc for Superman.

Need a Username · 05-03-2021 04:48PM

ThePott wrote: »

Well assuming the end of the movie is largely the same with the team assembled after defeating Steppenwolf, he is in the black suit. That's the basis for my assumption.
Good chance he won't be wearing the red and blue because Snyder had a 5 film arc for Superman.

A pity.

Do you mention the 5 film arc as in Superman would have gone back to red & blue in a later movie?

CramCycle · 05-03-2021 04:54PM

ThePott wrote: »

Well assuming the end of the movie is largely the same with the team assembled after defeating Steppenwolf, he is in the black suit. That's the basis for my assumption.
Good chance he won't be wearing the red and blue because Snyder had a 5 film arc for Superman.

Interesting, I have no idea what to expect, I presumed with the change to no follow on films that Synder was going to have that half way and have far more after that point,

ThePott · 05-03-2021 05:04PM

Need a Username wrote: »

A pity.
Do you mention the 5 film arc as in Superman would have gone back to red & blue in a later movie?

Well that's an assumption on my part but he has talked about how basically the 5 films would have brought Superman into being the Superman we all know and love. With MoS, BvS and a JL trilogy. I assumed that he wouldn't get back into the traditional costume until that point. Recently at an exhibition they have revealed what those sequel plans would be, haven't read it myself yet as I'm worried it could spoil elements of the ZSJL.

CramCycle wrote: »

Interesting, I have no idea what to expect, I presumed with the change to no follow on films that Synder was going to have that half way and have far more after that point,

Well a lot of people are still suggesting that there is plenty of stuff left open for sequels that will likely never happen. IMO at least I don't think there will be much more after where the theatrical cut ended, it seems a lot of the new filmed stuff was Knightmare footage and that will be in the middle somewhere presumably.

The White Wolf · 05-03-2021 05:34PM

The funny thing is that if Cavill got that 5 film arc that he would have mirrored what so many fans are loving about the CW Superman. I'm fairly certain Snyder said Clark was going to be the Superman we all know eventually but that he had to earn it first.

ThePott · 05-03-2021 05:49PM

The White Wolf wrote: »

The funny thing is that if Cavill got that 5 film arc that he would have mirrored what so many fans are loving about the CW Superman. I'm fairly certain Snyder said Clark was going to be the Superman we all know eventually but that he had to earn it first.

Well here's the 5 film arc https://imgur.com/a/hmBpUZX
Tbh I don't think this would have worked, certainly doesn't make me feel like this would finally give us the Superman we know.

Read it for yourself, it's an interesting read at least. it doesn't really spoil anything imo anyway.

The White Wolf · 05-03-2021 06:01PM

ThePott wrote: »

Well here's the 5 film arc https://imgur.com/a/hmBpUZX
Tbh I don't think this would have worked, certainly doesn't make me feel like this would finally give us the Superman we know.

Read it for yourself, it's an interesting read at least. it doesn't really spoil anything imo anyway.

I've seen that but the Superman we know has a broad definition. I mean that clip that was released yesterday and seeing Clark lift Bruce up with a nod of encouragement....that seems like the Clark I know and love as he's literally picking up those around him. I hope there's a decent bit of that in the SC because all signs point to it being Cavill's last appearance.

Justice League **Spoilers from post 980 onward**

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Justice League Spoilers from post 980 onward