Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Next year, or any year thereafter, where there is a flu outbreak — will you advocate lockdown? No, because you will not see lockdown as being a proportionate response to the scale of death. Does that man that your view of those who “fear for their lives” because of flu is simply “f**k them and let them die”? Does it make you some sort of degenerate if at all times you are not utterly conscious that you could be spreading a virus to someone that will kill them? Of course not.

This post actually proves my point. Do you understand the concept of risk? Me going for a drink during a normal flu season and meeting up with friends is not the same as me going for a drink while there is a novel virus outbreak. If you think its comparable then I fear you lack perspective on the topic because they simply are not comparable.

You are waving the spectre of people fearing for their lives due to Covid at me as if you had unearthed some great moral finding that I was unaware of. But I can just as easily wave back at you the fact that every year of your life up to last year, and I would venture every year of your life after this pandemic ends, you did not and will not lose a second’s sleep over strangers who will continue to fear for their lives from infectious respiratory illness or whatever else. You will not call for lockdown laws that might prevent them getting those diseases. That doesn’t make you a bad person, simply someone who understands that the preservation and prolongation of life exists in delicate balance with other interests. .

In normal times Quite often people do make decisions that will impact others and they are completely unaware of it, maybe some ignorance and sometimes genuine mistake and sometimes they are just selfish and dont care.

A person choosing to go on a session with a group of other people today is a person making a very conscious choice to do something they know for a fact may have serious potential ramifications. Far more serious ramifications then a person doing the same thing 14 months ago, you cant ignore it. There can be no ambiguity or confusion, a person breaking the restrictions to socialize in this manner is doing so with full knowledge of how it could affect somebody.

I do not judge or define people by their mistakes or even by being selfish. Its the sum of their parts. I can understand certain proportion of the population wanting certain social norms returning , but this is a part of their character that's deficient (maybe just ignorant) as far as I am concerned. They have chosen to let their wants override common sense (forgetting about the impacts on others, it is ridiculously stupid to do this when you don't know how the virus might impact your life) for a piss up.

Law is not a creation of some higher power — it is a man made concept which differs greatly in many contexts around the world. Disobedience with law is not invariably “acting the bollocks” or being immoral or antisocial — it can also reflect the fact that a law or the way in which it is implemented is not workable. When people do not comply with policy, it is not always because the people are inherently selfish degenerates, it can also simply be a reflection of a policy that is not sustainable. Personally I think invoking the spectre of “anarchy” because a few young ones met up for a drinking session is spectacularly hyperbolic — but even if we followed that logic — ask yourself why it would lead to anarchy? People would stop complying with laws when they lose their sense of buy-in — when it becomes apparent to them that the law is no longer the proportionate response to the evil it is supposed to prevent. If it is anarchy you fear, the you should fear unsustainable laws, not Irish teenagers who fancy a can and meeting their mates

But most people are adhering to the law. Most people have bought into the Lockdown whether they like it or not. A few hundred people on Grafton street and extreme posters on boards do not represent the majority.

None of this addresses the heart of my post which is that Many people are suffering in different ways, but most are trying to manage it in a way that doesn't affect the efforts to suppress the virus spread.

AdamD wrote: »

You're stating this as fact when it simply isn't. For a 20 year old, the reason not to socialise right now is to save other people. If it were simply about their own health it wouldn't even be a debate to be had, they'd take the (minimal) risk.

They wouldn't be stupid to do so either, the statistics are clear in that regard. The reason for them to not socialise is for society as a whole, not their own health.

This is why as time goes on you'll lose people, regardless of whatever moral high ground you want to take. How long can somebody justify putting the needs of others over their own? It will vary person to person but that's what is being asked of them.

Personally my compliance goes once my parents get vaccinated (though realistically restrictions will ease around then anyway)

I advise people on life assurance. Nobody who takes out a life assurance policy ever thinks they will die. It is the same with Serious Illness cover and Income protection cover, people take these covers out and quite often don't think about it. The people who take it seriously are those who either know somebody who really needed these policies or if they personally experienced a reason to make a claim and generally people in the health industry have a decent understanding.

This is how I view a lot of peoples views in these threads. They have little experience/understanding with risk or the effects of what is happening and they just don't think anything bad is going to happen. And so, because they dont percieve what is going on as a threat to them , they cant fully understand why certain measures need to be in place and why they need to follow them.

The risk that anybody will catch this virus is still quite high and while its high, its unwise for people to gather in groupings with alcohol. Our knowledge and understanding of the virus is not comparable with the Flu as this is a novel virus only around a year. There is still a lot we do not know about it, including how different variants may evolve and what that may mean. Do not confuse this with sentiments that there should be indefinite lockdowns, this is said from the viewpoint that while the virus is widely prevalent and still relatively little data on the new variants it is more prudent to be more cautious at this time.

This is part of the reason why there is such a scare mongering agenda in the media, because rightly or wrongly, the majority of people will be influenced by fear. A lot of people lack the capacity for critical and objective thinking when a proposal is put on front of them that is taking away something they want. Quite often people find it hard to conceptualize a danger and COVID has certainly exposed this deficiency in a lot of people who will only seek out the data and information that paints the picture they want to believe.

There is a lot of noise surrounding discussions in these forums. There is a global pandemic and every country is doing what it feels it needs to do to reduce spread. Nobody has all the right answers or perfect way of managing this This is the simple truth . People making arbitrary decisions on how they will respond to restrictions is at best not helping. At the absolute best case scenario it will be a cost neutral situation where through sheer luck nobody gets the virus or passes it on. At a worst case scenario , people will get infected that can start clusters.

In terms of people meeting up. If it was people meeting up , outdoors, without Alcohol, you would have more of a reasonable point. Why is alcohol a necessity with socializing? It is quite remarkable, this countries relationship with alcohol and the blind spot when trying to discuss it.

Alcohol while Socializing is fine in a normal time. Alcohol while socializing in a time when we need people to keep their distance and general faculties while being around other people is unwise (some might say stupid). I can understand why people want to ignore common sense for a good night out, but it doesn't change the fact that its just the wrong thing on pretty much every level for a significant portion of the last 12 months.