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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Comments

  • #8462
    penny piper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    Marty Bird wrote: »
    Nobody claimed that schools are magical virus free environments but the measures the schools have taken have worked as they are not a significant driver of the virus so says the data.

    Both my children went back to teach in dublin yesterday....both told me nothing had been done at all in their schools since christmas....and do you actually know/experienced what new measures have been taken in schools since they closed at christmas? ...because it certainly isn't happening in dublin where my two teach...


  • #8463
    penny piper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    Deeec wrote: »


    Also the risk in special schools would be much higher than mainstream schools.

    But isn't there special education students in mainstream schools?


  • #8464
    Deeec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,822 ✭✭✭Deeec


    penny piper wrote: »
    But isn't there special education students in mainstream schools?

    Yes there is - but these children dont have the same level of difficulties that children who attend special schools have. The case you referred to is in a special school where I would imagine there has to be close contact between teachers and children. I would imagine you dont have the same level of contact in mainstream schools. I just wanted to make the point that there are huge differences between special schools and mainstream schools. I think most people would agree.


  • #8465
    penny piper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    Deeec wrote: »
    Yes there is - but these children dont have the same level of difficulties that children who attend special schools have. The case you referred to is in a special school where I would imagine there has to be close contact between teachers and children. I would imagine you dont have the same level of contact in mainstream schools. I just wanted to make the point that there are huge differences between special schools and mainstream schools. I think most people would agree.


    OK i must correct you there....I quoted a case of a special school for the deaf....I'm 85% deaf due to a medical condition.... I wear hearing aids....I don't see that the teachers in that deaf school would be any nearer than a teacher who would be in close contact in a special/resource class in any mainstream secondary school...


  • #8466
    Deeec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,822 ✭✭✭Deeec


    penny piper wrote: »
    OK i must correct you there....I quoted a case of a special school for the deaf....I'm 85% deaf due to a medical condition.... I wear hearing aids....I don't see that the teachers in that deaf school would be any nearer than a teacher who would be in close contact in a special/resource class in any mainstream secondary school...

    OMG - Are you for real?

    Of course there would be close contact teaching deaf children!!!!


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  • #8467
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    This is hyperbole and nothing more. It has always been the case that schools are safe relative to the cases in the community. The "magical safe virus free environment" is a term that you and other posters here have coined and repeated.

    I would also advise that if Twitter comments are upsetting you, don't read them. I have said plenty of times that Twitter is a load of rubbish as far as reliability goes and will not accept links posted here by you and others. If you insist on using it as a medium, then you should take the rough there with the smooth and stop dragging it out in front of others all the time.

    Ahh the usual claptrap from your goodself. evidence as to where I said I was upset. Remarking something is disgusting does not mean upset. Your over active imagination at work again it seems.


  • #8468
    penny piper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    Deeec wrote: »
    OMG - Are you for real?

    Of course there would be close contact teaching deaf children!!!!

    Sorry I must be confusing you...by my previous post..

    What I'm trying to say is that the school I quoted would be in my opinion leans more towards a special needs class in a mainstream school.....there are deaf children in main stream schools...

    btw sorry if i'm confusing you more..it's just my opinion


  • #8469
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    Deeec wrote: »
    Yes there is - but these children dont have the same level of difficulties that children who attend special schools have. The case you referred to is in a special school where I would imagine there has to be close contact between teachers and children. I would imagine you dont have the same level of contact in mainstream schools. I just wanted to make the point that there are huge differences between special schools and mainstream schools. I think most people would agree.

    Not all special schools cater to the level of needs that most associate with special schools. There is an assumption that special school equates to high levels of need including intimate care - some do some don’t.


  • #8470
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 56,451 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    This is hyperbole and nothing more. It has always been the case that schools are safe relative to the cases in the community. The "magical safe virus free environment" is a term that you and other posters here have coined and repeated.

    I would also advise that if Twitter comments are upsetting you, don't read them. I have said plenty of times that Twitter is a load of rubbish as far as reliability goes and will not accept links posted here by you and others. If you insist on using it as a medium, then you should take the rough there with the smooth and stop dragging it out in front of others all the time.
    khalessi wrote: »
    Ahh the usual claptrap from your goodself. evidence as to where I said I was upset. Remarking something is disgusting does not mean upset. Your over active imagination at work again it seems.

    Mod:

    Both of you take the next 24hrs off the thread, I'm sick of the bickering between you

    Moderator: Current Affairs/IMHO, Soccer, Pro Wrestling



  • #8471
    Deeec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,822 ✭✭✭Deeec


    lulublue22 wrote: »
    Not all special schools cater to the level of needs that most associate with special schools. There is an assumption that special school equates to high levels of need including intimate care - some do some don’t.

    Yeah fair point. You are right that many in special schools dont need intimate care. I think most though would require more 'up close' teaching methods than kids in mainstream schools. Would that be fair to say?


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  • #8472
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    Deeec wrote: »
    Yeah fair point. You are right that many in special schools dont need intimate care. I think most though would require more 'up close' teaching methods than kids in mainstream schools. Would that be fair to say?

    Yes and No - it depends on the context. It’s quite nuanced and really depends on the type of school. I have taught in both special schools and mainstream. One special school I worked in was very close to an urban DEIS context.

    ETA it would be interesting to see a breakdown of special schools. I’d say you’d probably have to trawl through the dep website and try to piece that information together.

    ETA 2 Just saw your use of the word most - possibly a high percentage would , but it would depend on the school.


  • #8473
    penny piper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    Deeec wrote: »
    Yeah fair point. You are right that many in special schools dont need intimate care. I think most though would require more 'up close' teaching methods than kids in mainstream schools. Would that be fair to say?

    There are deaf units in schools around Ireland there might be few but they are there...alot of parents of deaf/hard of hearing children send them to mainstream school...but this is where children who are deaf/hard of hearing will be given help from SNA's if they need additional support..just like any other child in mainstream school who would need additional help....no difference


  • #8474
    Deeec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,822 ✭✭✭Deeec


    penny piper wrote: »
    There are deaf units in schools around Ireland there might be few but they are there...alot of parents of deaf/hard of hearing children send them to mainstream school...but this is where children who are deaf/hard of hearing will be given help from SNA's if they need additional support..just like any other child in mainstream school who would need additional help....no difference

    I do agree with you Penny but the % of children who need close up help/care in mainstream schools would be much lower than special schools. Thus the risk is higher for teachers, SNA's and pupils in special schools.

    I dont think we can compare mainstream schools to special schools in terms of risk IMO.


  • #8475
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    Deeec wrote: »
    I do agree with you Penny but the % of children who need close up help/care in mainstream schools would be much lower than special schools. Thus the risk is higher for teachers, SNA's and pupils in special schools.

    I dont think we can compare mainstream schools to special schools in terms of risk IMO.

    Prior to this lockdown special schools transmission rates were running slightly higher than mainstream. At one stage I did have the exact rates I think it was 2.9 % to 3.7 % or possibly 3 % to 3.7 % ( I’m open to correction on that ) so yes higher rates but not so that it makes a comparison between them unrealistic. I don’t think anyhow ?


  • #8476
    Deeec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,822 ✭✭✭Deeec


    lulublue22 wrote: »
    Prior to this lockdown special schools transmission rates were running slightly higher than mainstream. At one stage I did have the exact rates I think it was 2.9 % to 3.7 % or possibly 3 % to 3.7 % ( I’m open to correction on that ) so yes higher rates but not so that it makes a comparison between them unrealistic. I don’t think anyhow ?

    Yeah in fairness thats not much difference.


  • #8477
    penny piper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    Deeec wrote: »
    I do agree with you Penny but the % of children who need close up help/care in mainstream schools would be much lower than special schools. Thus the risk is higher for teachers, SNA's and pupils in special schools.

    I dont think we can compare mainstream schools to special schools in terms of risk IMO.


    Originally you did say that in your opinion the risk was there more because in special schools [such as the deaf school I mentioned) it was more because special schools students like this need more close up contact ....what I'm trying to point out is if you have/can have deaf/hard of hearing students in a mainstream school that have the same help as any other special needs student the risk is there.....just like a special school ...and idk I think it depends on the size of the school how big the special/resource dept is.....as to how big the risk is....I also brought it to your attention as a hard of hearing person myself..that children who are deaf/hard of hearing can be students in main stream schools....sorry for the rant....


  • #8478
    Deeec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,822 ✭✭✭Deeec


    penny piper wrote: »
    Originally you did say that in your opinion the risk was there more because in special schools [such as the deaf school I mentioned) it was more because special schools students like this need more close up contact ....what I'm trying to point out is if you have/can have deaf/hard of hearing students in a mainstream school that have the same help as any other special needs student the risk is there.....just like a special school ...and idk I think it depends on the size of the school how big the special/resource dept is.....as to how big the risk is....I also brought it to your attention as a hard of hearing person myself..that children who are deaf/hard of hearing can be students in main stream schools....sorry for the rant....

    Penny I completely get what you are saying and your are right.


  • #8479
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    Deeec wrote: »
    Penny I completely get what you are saying and your are right.

    I suppose it’s like anything and depends on individual circumstances - there are special schools that would incur higher risk and gov have indicated that by providing medical grade masks for those involved in intimate care. I think the key issue is for PH to be proactive and clear cut in their decisions. The decision to publish school numbers weekly will hopefully either 1. enable a better PH response to school clusters or 2. allay fears re the spread of covid in schools.


  • #8480
    Neagra
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 146 ✭✭Neagra


    great to have primary half open. feels right and my children are delighted. complete change in their demeanour - its the social aspect. it is so important to children.
    of the four classes back not one child is missing - great news and says alot about the steel in our community.
    surely we can all agree on this thread that its is the children's mental health and development that must now come first.


  • #8481
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,533 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    Anyone get a feeling the department will completely give up the whole "phased" thing and just bring everyone back on the 15th?


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  • #8482
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Doubtful

    I don't think they'd get NPHET support for that


  • #8483
    Locotastic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Locotastic


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    Anyone get a feeling the department will completely give up the whole "phased" thing and just bring everyone back on the 15th?

    With a bit of luck, it'll be two months between special education schools opening and secondary returning, far too long.


  • #8484
    Dickie10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    our principal told people staff romm to be avoided if at all possible, in for your 6th years class then home if possible, ok if poor internet at home and need wifi, but anyone not teaching 6th years keep away from building if possible.


  • #8485
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,533 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    Locotastic wrote: »
    With a bit of luck, it'll be two months between special education schools opening and secondary returning, far too long.

    Yeah, feck public health advice


  • #8486
    delly
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,774 Mod ✭✭✭✭delly


    Neagra wrote: »
    surely we can all agree on this thread that its is the children's mental health and development that must now come first.
    See you had me up to this point, but you can't make a loaded statement like that. We can all obviously agree that they are incredibly important aspects, but everyone is living their own set of circumstances. I'm due for much postponed surgery at the end of the month and have not stepped into another person's house in a year, nor has anyone been in mine. I'm doing everything I can to be safe and if it means just a few more weeks of no school for this house, then that's just what needs to happen.


  • #8487
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    This is incredibly sensible and is backed by science now on the protection of one dose.
    Get it done by end of March. Refreshing to see fact based leadership instead of denying that you can get infected in a classroom.

    https://twitter.com/Quicktake/status/1366939398462459907?s=20


  • #8488
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,441 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    Anyone get a feeling the department will completely give up the whole "phased" thing and just bring everyone back on the 15th?

    Nope.


  • #8489
    jrosen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭jrosen


    I do think there are kids suffering with their mental health not being in school but I’d hazard a bet there are far more who are ticking along just fine.

    I had a chat with my sons year head yesterday and he said he can’t see them being back in school full time untill September. He is sure they will get back in April but reckons it will be 2/3 days per week! Now who knows what he knows and maybe it’s just his opinion based on nothing. But i wouldn’t be surprised.


  • #8490
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,441 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    jrosen wrote: »
    I do think there are kids suffering with their mental health not being in school but I’d hazard a bet there are far more who are ticking along just fine.

    I had a chat with my sons year head yesterday and he said he can’t see them being back in school full time untill September. He is sure they will get back in April but reckons it will be 2/3 days per week! Now who knows what he knows and maybe it’s just his opinion based on nothing. But i wouldn’t be surprised.

    It's just his opinion. All we know for definite is what has been publicly said and the proposed return dates that have been outlined. Now of course these aren't set in stone and can be changed and amended if needed.


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  • #8491
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    jrosen wrote: »
    I do think there are kids suffering with their mental health not being in school but I’d hazard a bet there are far more who are ticking along just fine.

    I had a chat with my sons year head yesterday and he said he can’t see them being back in school full time untill September. He is sure they will get back in April but reckons it will be 2/3 days per week! Now who knows what he knows and maybe it’s just his opinion based on nothing. But i wouldn’t be surprised.

    This is exactly what it is. He has no more information than the general public and his guess as what will happen in future is no more informed than anyone else's. I personally can't see schools ever closing again due to covid and all will go back as timelined and when we look back in future we'll think why we're we so cautious but again that's only my opinion.


This discussion has been closed.
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