What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Danzy wrote:

Your Jingoism is all well and good but it doesn't explain the reluctantance to use AZ on the approved groups or the lackadaisical approach to other vaccines.

Any problems with Germany or Germans?

robinph wrote:

Couldn't care less about the nationally, it's the leaving vaccines unused in the fridge when there is a pandemic going on that we are on about and some national governments, from multiple countries, are doing a bad job at getting their citizens to take the vaccines they do have available.

Did you get the 1.03%?

Deleted User wrote: »

German text:
https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Drei-Laenderchefs-wollen-Impfreihenfolge-lockern-article22391534.html

Federal State politicians want to give AstraZeneca to others who want it outside of the normal prioritisation list so that it doesn't go to waste.
This is not approved yet but is leading the news on TV and Newspapers today.

It's getting a little silly over there. Lack of efficacy in older people is one thing. Despite all the reports, there's still no evidence to the contrary.
Holding it in reserve for the US trail data to come in is reasonable, but I think if it proved it was effective in over 65+, it's gotten too political in Germany now.

Strazdas wrote: »

It's not an EU issue or problem by the way. The EU have absolutely no say in how vaccines are rolled out.....it's totally down to each individual member state.

Bit cynical wrote: »

Member need to have the vaccines surely in order to roll them out.

The EU don't instruct member countries on what demographic should be vaccinated first or what vaccines should be used for a certain cohort.
The EU approve the vaccine, order and distribute it to member states,
Once it arrives in the member state that country is responsible to distribute it as it sees fit.

Danzy wrote: »

It's always someone else's fault. Who is doing the buying and distribution.

As Guy Verhofstadt said the EU vaccination program has been a fiasco.

Are we to pretend as well that he is anti EU.

The job isn't being done and there is a slow pace in changing that.

Lots of people who have no involvement have lots to say. It doesn't make them in any way right. The EU part in this may have been sub-optimal at times but they have no control over countries not vaccinating.

What triggered all of this was one company and one vaccine and they are still flailing around now trying to fulfil agreed orders for Q2. We knew about the potential supply problem this quarter from almost as far back as September with Pfizer mentioning the likely delay in ramping up to the targets for the year.

Danzy wrote: »

It's always someone else's fault. Who is doing the buying and distribution.

As Guy Verhofstadt said the EU vaccination program has been a fiasco.

Are we to pretend as well that he is anti EU.

The job isn't being done and there is a slow pace in changing that.

There is no EU wide vaccination program.

The EU is doing the procurement (and were set up to do so several months later than they should have, doing something they never did before). Distribution to countries is done by the pharmacy companies, under the direction of the EU. This has been suboptimal in parts, but overall we are still in a much better place than almost all other countries in the world. Ireland would be no-where only for the EU on this.

The EU is doing the approval on behalf of member states. Member states can still decide what they want to approve or not.

Administration of vaccines is up to each country. This is not up to the EU to decide.

You need to break down the nuances of how this works to be able to determine where there needs to be improvements, and you are free to make suggestions on how to improve things. Quoting the mouthpiece who is on the front of the daily mail and the express almost every day, is not really solving the situation is it? Outside of Israel and non western vaccinations, the only 2 countries really outperforming the EU are the US and the UK. They both in the main control the supply of one or more vaccines. Remember, if the EU had ringfenced European based vaccine production the same as the UK had with AZ - things would be very different right now.

While I don't agree with the slowdown in Germany, from an Irish perspective we are doing as well as we can, with the supply available to us. AZ have plenty to apologise for as far as I am concerned and clearly Europeans are reacting to this and not buying into their vaccine. I am very optimistic that supply is only going to get faster and faster for EU countries and the rollout will follow. If we can speed up the J&J approval, there is every chance this could end for us at the same time as the UK despite a more rigorous approval process, less risk taking, and less control of production.

Deleted User wrote: »

No crisis that can't be put to good use as an EU bashing opportunity.
187 references to EU in your posting history according to boards.ie search function.

I doubt there are 187 EU bashing posts.

I think you mean 187 EU commission bashing posts, to be honest i would of thought there would of been more.

Seeing as boards Euro septics, sorry sceptics want to rope even Guy Verhofstadt into their bad faith arguments, thought it might be a good idea to post his thoughts:

https://euobserver.com/stakeholders/150931

Ultimately, what is needed is a radical change in our strategy. In the short term, we need to use the power of the European Union to renegotiate the ill-conceived contracts with the pharmaceutical industry.

And in the longer term, a real health union must be established with a real budget so that we can match the US in supporting the development and production of new medicines and treatments by the pharmaceutical industry.

As often, the European Union is not the problem, but the solid basis for the solution.

All good ideas for the future perhaps.

Am confident Eurosceptic posters (excepting UK "ex patriots" stuck among the natives perhaps) will agree wholeheartedly with Verhofstadt any day now! :pac:

fly_agaric wrote: »

All good ideas for the future perhaps.

Sounds like he talking about a more equal healthcare system

Wait a minute was yourself not one who called me a crank pot for suggesting this sometime ago???

mick087 wrote: »

Sounds like he talking about a more equal healthcare system

Wait a minute was yourself not one who called me a crank pot for suggesting this sometime ago???

It is surprising you agree with him.
Even though he is critical of the EU vaccine procurement, his diagnosis of the problems & the arguments made & solutions suggested are the usual EU "federalist" ones (anathema to Eurosceptics).

Yes I took a bit of a cut at you a long while back in this thread for some "One World Government" posts you made about having a fair global development, procurement & distribution of vaccines.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116094633&postcount=1302

If we can't make it work out well in Europe or even within the EU at times, I felt it was very unrealistic to believe it can somehow be made to work for the entire world [at this point in time...or maybe ever?].

Bambi wrote: »

Oh yeah, that will tell them eurosceptics, Even Guy admits the EU made a balls of it (something the die hards on here baulk at) and suggests the answer is to mimic the British in their approach (heresy!!)

Unsuprisingly though, Guys ulitmate answer to this cluster**** caused entirely by the EU is his answer to every fcuking problem, transfer more power to the EU.


I do like the nervous tone he finishes with.

"Because we cannot do without the European Union in this, as some might conclude from this fiasco. As often, the European Union is not the problem, but the solid basis for the solution."

Some cult like thinking there

All the EU made a mess of was the AstraZeneca contract. However that's a far less used vaccine in the EU at the moment. Of around 40m vaccines delivered to the EU so far, only around 6m or so doses are AZ.

There has been no issue at all with the Pfizer or Moderna contracts. Also, much of the slowish rollout in some members states has absolutely nothing to do with the AstraZeneca controversies or even with the EU itself.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1366442046190419983

Danzy wrote:

As Guy Verhofstadt said the EU vaccination program has been a fiasco.

He's suddenly good use to you otherwise he is the usual target for the europhobes. How handy.

Yes, he is criticising the EC as a representative of the EP. This is a good thing. The EP and the Council are there to balance and criticise the EC. That's why they exist FFS.

And, of course, he is calling for the EU to have Health competency which it doesn't now that's why the EC could only do procurement and nothing else. I'm sure you will agree with European Health Commissioner and European health care union.

Strazdas wrote:

All the EU made a mess of was the AstraZeneca contract.However that's a far less used vaccine in the EU at the moment. Of around 40m vaccines delivered to the EU so far, only around 6m or so doses are AZ.

This is untrue. British propaganda mostly. And some other pressure, you know like RT and then eurosceptics all over the place lied and repeated the lie so much that it's become a "fact".

Why the EU made a mess? How?
The UK and EU contracts are almost the same and were signed within one day of each other.

AZ is a medium size company incapable of delivering large global volumes of the vaccine in short time, unlike the top pharma companies (Pfizer, JJ). They overpromised, they lied, they prioritised the UK deliveries over the EU ones due to political pressure. Dodgy disgraceful company and should be sued.