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Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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    #1022
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I don't know if there's much of an appetite for such things in Ireland, I'm becoming more and more convinced the vast majority just want to drive everywhere and park everywhere all the time, and are happy to sit in traffic to get places.

    pre covid the vast majority of Dublin commuters used foot, bike and PT to travel to Central Dublin. The suburbs and the rest of the country though, an uphill battle.


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    #1023
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    donvito99 wrote: »
    On the other hand, traffic is probably one of the best friends of public transport and alternative modes such as cycling and walking. It makes journeys by bike and bus relatively quicker and generates enough headlines that politicians can get enough support for the odd scheme here and there that, if successful, will hopefully bring about widespread change.

    The number of cyclists on my commute over the years has continued to increase as the tailbacks have become longer and more frequent.

    It can also do the opposite though. Traffic is crazy so people start driving/parking in the bus lanes or cycle lanes. Obviously enforcement will prevent that but we don't enforce anything currently.

    Any scheme to change car lanes to bus or cycle lanes will meet increased resistance because 'traffic is bad enough as it is and now they want to remove a lane'. If there was no traffic there would be a lot less resistance to converting car lanes to bus and cycle lanes or footpaths.


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    #1024
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    cgcsb wrote: »
    pre covid the vast majority of Dublin commuters used foot, bike and PT to travel to Central Dublin. The suburbs and the rest of the country though, an uphill battle.

    Yeah I normally work in central Dublin and I swear the traffic used to be even worse in the late 90s/2000s.
    The time I'm most flabbergasted by the sheer amount of traffic absolutely everywhere is usually normal Saturday afternoons pre-Covid. Every single road in housing estates, suburbs, are just rammed with cars. You see traffic backed up for ages trying to get onto the Artane Roundabout for e.g. at like 2pm on a Saturday, you don't see it half as bad at rush hour though.


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    #1025
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Yeah I normally work in central Dublin and I swear the traffic used to be even worse in the late 90s/2000s.
    The time I'm most flabbergasted by the sheer amount of traffic absolutely everywhere is usually normal Saturday afternoons pre-Covid. Every single road in housing estates, suburbs, are just rammed with cars. You see traffic backed up for ages trying to get onto the Artane Roundabout for e.g. at like 2pm on a Saturday, you don't see it half as bad at rush hour though.

    Traffic 20 years ago was chronic.We somewhat alleviated those issues but the growth in population and incomes has brought us back.

    I recall almost everyday taking 45min to navigate from Heuston to Ormond Quay if you're lucky on the 79.


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    #1026
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,996 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://twitter.com/demescope/status/1364542506105524227


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    #1027
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Something like the above gets proposed in Ireland and people start screaming that they're ripping the heart and soul of the town/city in question. It's so depressing.


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    #1028
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Something like the above gets proposed in Ireland and people start screaming that they're ripping the heart and soul of the town/city in question. It's so depressing.

    They say the same thing in Italy. And even still many/most of the pedestrian spaces in Italy are only theoretically pedestrian because of the amount of loud petrol scooters/motorbikes.


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    #1029
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Something like the above gets proposed in Ireland and people start screaming that they're ripping the heart and soul of the town/city in question. It's so depressing.

    Stand in any town centre in Ireland while trucks and cars rip past you on a multi lane (When you consider the pox that is 'turning lanes') highway and ask where the heart and soul of that town is...

    How were there no protests when they gutted the centres of towns for cars in the 60s/70s/80s/90s? Was it simply death by a thousand cuts?


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    #1030
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    cgcsb wrote: »
    They say the same thing in Italy. And even still many/most of the pedestrian spaces in Italy are only theoretically pedestrian because of the amount of loud petrol scooters/motorbikes.

    Yes they are famous for their traffic jams but from my experience they have a lot more car free zones than we do.


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    #1031
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    Stand in any town centre in Ireland while trucks and cars rip past you on a multi lane highway and ask where the heart and soul of that town is...

    How were there no protests when they gutted the centres of towns for cars in the 60s/70s/80s/90s? Was it simply death by a thousand cuts?

    Probably because as it was happening more and more were getting cars so were happy to be able to drive and park everywhere.


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    #1032
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Yes they are famous for their traffic jams but from my experience they have a lot more car free zones than we do.
    Car free but not pleasant, you cant hear yourself think with all the motorbikes, would prefer cars tbh. You need to be even more alert as a pedestrian with all the motos about.


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    #1033
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Motos are far less polluting and far more efficient though, we would be better off in Dublin if more people used them imo.
    Mopeds etc should be encouraged by the government, they use feck all fuel.


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    #1034
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Motos are far less polluting and far more efficient though, we would be better off in Dublin if more people used them imo.
    Mopeds etc should be encouraged by the government, they use feck all fuel.
    I used to love the smell of two-stroke oil in the mornings, you can often smell them before yo see them!
    These days the electric ones are flying out of the shops, some comentators in China say that in some cities it sounds like a swarm of bees are buzzing around the streets.
    They're getting banned in more and more cities.


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    #1035
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I don't know why they'd ban them before cars, they're far more efficient. In Malta there are electric mopeds lying around that you can use, like Dublin bikes, a scheme like that would be great here too but I don't think it would fly due to our ridiculous insurance cartel.


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    #1036
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Motos are far less polluting and far more efficient though, we would be better off in Dublin if more people used them imo.
    Mopeds etc should be encouraged by the government, they use feck all fuel.

    Impossible to hold a conversation in Italian City Centres because of them, an absolute pain. Probably not so bad if they were used on the roads instead of through the pedestrian plazas.


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    #1037
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I used to love the smell of two-stroke oil in the mornings, you can often smell them before yo see them!
    These days the electric ones are flying out of the shops, some comentators in China say that in some cities it sounds like a swarm of bees are buzzing around the streets.
    They're getting banned in more and more cities.

    I was in China a couple of years ago, the electric mopeds are EVERYWHERE. They would be great here but in China they are a silent killer because they drive them on the footpaths.


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    #1038
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I was in China a couple of years ago, the electric mopeds are EVERYWHERE. They would be great here but in China they are a silent killer because they drive them on the footpaths.
    Could you imagine how polluted the streets must have been before they switched to electric, for the size of the engine in a moped they really chucked out some oily half burnt smoky polluted exhaust.


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    #1039
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,996 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    and yet another tweet demonstrating how the world is changing...

    https://twitter.com/jonburkeUK/status/1362108427883929603


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    #1040
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭buffalo


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    Stand in any town centre in Ireland while trucks and cars rip past you on a multi lane (When you consider the pox that is 'turning lanes') highway and ask where the heart and soul of that town is...

    How were there no protests when they gutted the centres of towns for cars in the 60s/70s/80s/90s? Was it simply death by a thousand cuts?

    There were. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanbrassil_Street#Development_of_the_new_road
    By 1980 the road engineers had increased the amount of space needed to 60 feet (18.3 m), in order to run a 6-lane dual carriageway through the street...

    After protests and demonstrations by locals and sympathisers against the road, and intervention by the Taoiseach, Charles Haughey, work on the road eventually began in 1989. A 4-lane dual carriageway was constructed, flanked by new houses and apartments.

    Not the greatest of references, but there were certainly protests, albeit limited.


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    #1041
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Among the features destroyed by the road construction was the crossing known locally as the "Four Corners of Hell" (the junction of Patrick St., Dean St., New St. and Kevin St.), because there was a public house on each corner; and the well-known hostelry The Bunch of Grapes (formerly Fitzpatrick's, constructed in 1739).

    Oh that's a shame.


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    #1042
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,884 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I was in China a couple of years ago, the electric mopeds are EVERYWHERE. They would be great here but in China they are a silent killer because they drive them on the footpaths.

    True - they are everywhere, but the real silent killer was the pollution from the two strokes.
    In the big citys like Shanghai about 9/10 yrs this happened overnight I was told on a visit back in 2013, Gov brought in a law that one had to have a drivers licence/permit for the two stroke, vast majority of people just ripped out the engine and put in a battery in its place with a bit of duct tape to hold it all together from the various mopeds I seen.


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    #1043
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    what_traffic wrote: »
    True - they are everywhere, but the real silent killer was the pollution from the two strokes.
    In the big citys like Shanghai about 9/10 yrs this happened overnight I was told on a visit back in 2013, Gov brought in a law that one had to have a drivers licence/permit for the two stroke, vast majority of people just ripped out the engine and put in a battery in its place with a bit of duct tape to hold it all together from the various mopeds I seen.

    It was later, 2019, granted in a smaller city, only 2 million people, They were all proper electric mopeds with the circular light on front and the wife and kids on the back, not a scrap of duct tape in site.


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    #1044
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    One thing i taught is very good is the bollards segregating cycle lane from traffic on Griffith avenue, I think if they had more of that around the city it would encourage more cycling


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    #1045
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,545 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    they're an unfortunate necessity, IMHO. some of the locals are not happy, but as i am fond of repeating on the local FB page, they're the fault of the motorists, not cyclists.


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    #1046
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    they're an unfortunate necessity, IMHO. some of the locals are not happy, but as i am fond of repeating on the local FB page, they're the fault of the motorists, not cyclists.

    DCC did say they were temporary and will be replaced soon. There was €1m in the recent €240m funding announcement for Griffith Avenue so I'd be expecting an upgrade soon.


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    #1047
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-cars-2-5366285-Feb2021/

    Phoenix Park asking people to leave the car at home this weekend. The usual rabblers wont like that, I mean the only people who drive are the elderly and disabled anyway.


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    #1048
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    At a certain point governments and local authorities are going to realise that asking car drivers to do anything altruistic will never work.


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    #1049
    Busman Paddy Lasty
    Registered Users Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    roadmaster wrote: »
    One thing i taught is very good is the bollards segregating cycle lane from traffic on Griffith avenue, I think if they had more of that around the city it would encourage more cycling

    Does anyone know why there are parking spaces wedged between the cycle lane and road, here and there? Doors opening into cycle lane must be a hazard for cyclists.


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    #1050
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »
    Does anyone know why there are parking spaces wedged between the cycle lane and road, here and there? Doors opening into cycle lane must be a hazard for cyclists.

    It's called a parking protected cycle lane. The car door issue is still there, but it's a vast improvement on a standard painted cycle lane safety wise.

    Obviously the ideal would be to have a completely segregated route, but that's often not possible for various reasons, so this is a fairly good compromise.


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    #1051
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,545 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    they seem to have added more parking spaces recently, but the first ones went in because there's a GP/dental practice on the avenue which people would be parking outside.


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