Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

Sephiroth_dude · 25-02-2021 04:51PM

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Exactly - back in your box.

Anymore posts like this and you'll find yourself thread banned, keep it civil.

jrosen · 25-02-2021 04:59PM

There has been so much in the media and back and forth politically its hard to remember who said what. NEPHET said phased. Im guessing the gov made a call to return the younger classes first as they are probably having the biggest impact on parents who are working from home. Id imagine the same argument was made hence why 1st and 2nd were also included. LC because they had to be seen to do something after last years **** show.

Theboinkmaster · 25-02-2021 05:00PM

penny piper wrote: »

According to Michael Martin two days ago in his speech to the nation the new variant is 70% more contagious than the original virus.
Shameful he wasn't akin to your research before he spoke..

Michael Martin and the media have an agenda to threaten people with 70% - this is not accurate.

Do your own research and you'll see. For example the CDC Director says it is 50%:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/23/covid-variants-heres-everything-you-need-to-know.html

Stateofyou · 25-02-2021 05:10PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/

Brilliant, thank you! What a load of reading though, and many docs without titles...

I skimmed the last one, and the CMO refers to the WHO and ECDC recommendations/statements; so why not listen to the WHO regarding mask wearing of children?

Now if only we could get a good source of info about what the Unions went to the negotiating table with... any idea folks?

Thanks for saving half of my sanity, iamwhoiam :pac:

Stateofyou · 25-02-2021 05:28PM

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Michael Martin and the media have an agenda to threaten people with 70% - this is not accurate.

Do your own research and you'll see. For example the CDC Director says it is 50%:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/23/covid-variants-heres-everything-you-need-to-know.html

Sidenote here: Americans are also looking at spending 130 Billion dollars (!!!) to get their K-12 schools reopened. Just imagine the safety measures coming.

Here's what NYT's had to say this morning at the start of the daily newsletter: "There are two obvious ways to reopen schools. One is to take precautions like mask wearing that minimize the risk of outbreaks inside school buildings. The other is to vaccinate the country’s teachers as quickly as possible."
(Their teachers are already being vaccinated)

It goes on to refer to different reports on how to reopen. Let me know if anyone wants these links.

penny piper · 25-02-2021 05:29PM

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Michael Martin and the media have an agenda to threaten people with 70% - this is not accurate.

Do your own research and you'll see. For example the CDC Director says it is 50%:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/23/covid-variants-heres-everything-you-need-to-know.html

Didn't you quote 40%?
Irrespective of how high/low the percentage is ...it's a new variant that's highly transmissible especially in children ...the idea that michael martin/martin/media have an agenda to threaten people ...I'm sorry but that's just laughable.......I actually believe that his agenda /media is to play things down.....just like his idea of returning children back to school ...too soon ...

Theboinkmaster · 25-02-2021 05:57PM

penny piper wrote: »

Didn't you quote 40%?
Irrespective of how high/low the percentage is ...it's a new variant that's highly transmissible especially in children ...the idea that michael martin/martin/media have an agenda to threaten people ...I'm sorry but that's just laughable.......I actually believe that his agenda /media is to play things down.....just like his idea of returning children back to school ...too soon ...

Yes I quoted 40% and you quoted 70%, didn’t have time to find correct link so sent first one I found which quoted 50% which is a lot closer to my figure than yours.

You find the fact that the media have an agenda laughable? Bad news sells and the media glorify COVID bad news - just like they did with the Oxford vaccine not being effective for over 65s.

And MM has an agenda to blame variant on l5 January lockdown rather than admit they got it wrong coming up to Xmas.

Level 3 was working in October they should have stayed there instead of up to 5 then back to 2 in just 2 months - crazy stuff.

You’re very naive not to understand that everyone has an agenda - including me

bettyoleary · 25-02-2021 06:07PM

Warbeastrior wrote: »

But herein lies the problem.

Why are we as frontline workers expected to work on the frontline but not get the necessary safety measures of other frontline workers (healthcare etc)

I'm in my 20's and work as a SNA with Leaving Cert Applied students. It is true that I would consider myself fit and healthy but I live with my Dad who is in the high risk category so I'm very worried about bringing it back home.

I am now expected back into a classroom with a group of 16 year olds that have quite a lot of behavioural issues.

Before Christmas, they nearly refused to wear the masks properly.

Warbeastrior,

Its not at all safe for children to be back in school. They catch the virus and they spread it same as anyone else. Also, no body knows what effect catching the virus will have on any individual child. Ignore people who bleat ooh shop workers front line workers etc. The fronline workers have full ppe and access to regulatr testing and contract tracing and are not i a room poorly ventillated with 50 vectors messing round. Shop staff are behind perspex screen s and social distancing is enforced by security. School is not in anyway safe and you are risking your elderly fathers health. Unions should never have allowed re opening of schools. Universities are rampant with covid. Look at the stats.

Stateofyou · 25-02-2021 06:18PM

School children in France are wearing masks..

Still wondering if we are one of the only countries to not implement stronger safety measures especially in light of the dominant Uk strain.

khalessi · 25-02-2021 06:24PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

School children in France are wearing masks..

Still wondering if we are one of the only countries to not implement stronger safety measures especially in light of the dominant Uk strain.

Yup so it seems, Ireland has decided it is Dumbledore and muttered the strongest spell of them all.

Schools are safe

and left it at that. Guarantee that any raise in number will be blamed on anything but schools and school cases will continue to be written up as community cases

jrosen · 25-02-2021 06:36PM

I think most people are expecting to see numbers rise when schools return, the question is will it be worth the risk?

Stateofyou · 25-02-2021 06:42PM

jrosen wrote: »

I think most people are expecting to see numbers rise when schools return, the question is will it be worth the risk?

But why on earth can't we even TRY to mitigate against the risk? Even if we don't have another wave, there will be so much unnecessary sickness or worse.

If it's not safe for pregnant women, then how it safe for pregnant mothers of school going children, or those with underlying conditions or living with family who do. Nothing has been done to support these people.

Why is the phased reopening just cramming the classrooms full again with "partial ventilation" instead of phasing all children to rotate in/out of school in a mix of home and school learning so that all receive in person schooling, the class size is halved and therefore safer, at least until vaccines uptake is at a higher level?

Edit to add: masks in Primary would also be very helpful, but I can see that's a pipe dream Any of you seen the comment section of media reports online? It's an absolute cesspool of anti science, ignorant thinking. People who believe their kids will be inhaling toxins all day and suffer physically and mentally. They claim their children have "been through enough." FFS.

khalessi · 25-02-2021 06:43PM

jrosen wrote: »

I think most people are expecting to see numbers rise when schools return, the question is will it be worth the risk?

From a teacher's point of view probably no, mainly because nothing has been done to improve safety apart from wash your hands. Even the whole malarky over pregnant teachers staying home is only until the 15th when everyone is due back anyways.

The Dept is playing the media game and don't give a damn what happens as long as Norma gets her way.

The will be the usual cohort on here saying get on with it, sure why you complaining, while they sit working either from home or in environments where safety measures are there to avail of. If there are deaths or someone is hospitalised there usual pack will say, well people end up in hospital everyday, ya know the souless ones, nothing will disturb their view/ belief.

Str8outtaWuhan · 25-02-2021 06:51PM

Lads, the gov have lost the dressing room. The good weather has children playing outside , the green across from our house looks like a watering hole on the Serengetii!! The Fins are heading into a big lock down and they have the same number of cases as we do.

My gang are delighted to be going back , talked to one of the kids teachers today at the playground and she is delighted too, said she is sick to death of see saw and hopes she never has to use it again in her life !!

penny piper · 25-02-2021 07:11PM

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Lads, the gov have lost the dressing room. The good weather has children playing outside , the green across from our house looks like a watering hole on the Serengetii!! The Fins are heading into a big lock down and they have the same number of cases as we do.

My gang are delighted to be going back , talked to one of the kids teachers today at the playground and she is delighted too, said she is sick to death of see saw and hopes she never has to use it again in her life !!

Yes Finland is going into a 3 week lockdown and ordering all children over 13 to return to remote teaching....
Good weather is great...but we have the problem here that we still are on a level 5 lockdown.....and children will be now going back to school next week...lets hope we are not too premature in this....

khalessi · 25-02-2021 08:00PM

New report out on schools 345 pages of a read

https://parentsutdireland.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/are-irish-schools-safe-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-parents-utd-ireland-report.pdf

There is Nothing Positive about Positivity Rates in Schools.

wirelessdude01 · 25-02-2021 08:08PM

khalessi wrote: »

New report out on schools 345 pages of a read

https://parentsutdireland.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/are-irish-schools-safe-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-parents-utd-ireland-report.pdf

There is Nothing Positive about Positivity Rates in Schools.

The usual suspects will be along shortly.

hesaidshesaid · 25-02-2021 08:11PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

Now if only we could get a good source of info about what the Unions went to the negotiating table with... any idea folks?

Follow the INTO on Twitter for this info.

https://twitter.com/INTOnews?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Stateofyou · 25-02-2021 08:26PM

khalessi wrote: »

New report out on schools 345 pages of a read

https://parentsutdireland.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/are-irish-schools-safe-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-parents-utd-ireland-report.pdf

There is Nothing Positive about Positivity Rates in Schools.

345 pages.... :-S

Right folks, lets divvy this up and report back :pac:

Stateofyou · 25-02-2021 08:33PM

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

=Stateofyou;116403962]

Now if only we could get a good source of info about what the Unions went to the negotiating table with... any idea folks?

Follow the INTO on Twitter for this info.

https://twitter.com/INTOnews?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Thank you. Will have to peruse through that; I was following them already but I'm rarely on Twitter so wasn't aware what they were posting.

So far I saw that they said they want a strict approach to congregation zones outside schools (&) pressing for air ventilation monitors, face masks for pupils, regular antigen testing - but all that apparently fell to the wayside and agreed on the return without any of it. Why did they roll over? Will see what else I find.

jrosen · 25-02-2021 08:35PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

But why on earth can't we even TRY to mitigate against the risk? Even if we don't have another wave, there will be so much unnecessary sickness or worse.

If it's not safe for pregnant women, then how it safe for pregnant mothers of school going children, or those with underlying conditions or living with family who do. Nothing has been done to support these people.

Why is the phased reopening just cramming the classrooms full again with "partial ventilation" instead of phasing all children to rotate in/out of school in a mix of home and school learning so that all receive in person schooling, the class size is halved and therefore safer, at least until vaccines uptake is at a higher level?

Edit to add: masks in Primary would also be very helpful, but I can see that's a pipe dream Any of you seen the comment section of media reports online? It's an absolute cesspool of anti science, ignorant thinking. People who believe their kids will be inhaling toxins all day and suffer physically and mentally. They claim their children have "been through enough." FFS.

I would think the return to school as planned is an attempt to mitigate some risk.To gauge how it goes before more students returned.

FishOnABike · 25-02-2021 08:47PM

Teacher2020 wrote: »

Lying awake worrying about going back next Monday. I'm looking forward to it but trying to get proper masks ordered for myself for Monday as my school won't provide masks for mainstream teachers as it is our choice if we want to weat a mask or not.
I have 27 children in my class.
I'll let you know on Monday but I'm pretty sure I'll have all 27 back. I dont think many parents will keep their kids at home- most are dying to get rid of them for a few hours.
It scares me that there are no additional safety measures for schools in this time. Just crack the window and hope for the best.

If schools are not providing the propper personal protective equipment all teachers should claim for personally bought PPE in their end of year tax return and if necessary unions should be prepared to take a test case if revevnue do not allow deductions for what are essential, work related expenses.

Locotastic · 25-02-2021 08:50PM

bettyoleary wrote: »

Warbeastrior,

Its not at all safe for children to be back in school. They catch the virus and they spread it same as anyone else. Also, no body knows what effect catching the virus will have on any individual child. Ignore people who bleat ooh shop workers front line workers etc. The fronline workers have full ppe and access to regulatr testing and contract tracing and are not i a room poorly ventillated with 50 vectors messing round. Shop staff are behind perspex screen s and social distancing is enforced by security. School is not in anyway safe and you are risking your elderly fathers health. Unions should never have allowed re opening of schools. Universities are rampant with covid. Look at the stats.

50 vectors? Is it a maths class....

Stateofyou · 25-02-2021 08:51PM

jrosen wrote: »

I would think the return to school as planned is an attempt to mitigate some risk.To gauge how it goes before more students returned.

So in other words, instead of implementing known safety measures identified by health bodies worldwide and as other countries have looked to, our kids here in Ireland are being treated as *lab rats.*

jrosen · 25-02-2021 09:09PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

So in other words, instead of implementing known safety measures identified by health bodies worldwide and as other countries have looked to, our kids here in Ireland are being treated as *lab rats.*

Whats your solution?

From what I have read countries have tired different social measures, in my opinion I think all countries are winging it to a degree. Trying to see what can work. Its not faultless but the other option is we keep schools closed for the rest of the school year and hope we have enough people vaccinated to have schools open as normal come September

Edit to add, I think it was a big mistake not to vaccinate teachers as a priority. I said so from the beginning. I think anyone who is working and needs to work outside the home and work with large numbers of people were social distancing isn't always possible should have been vaccinated as a priority.

penny piper · 25-02-2021 09:34PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

So in other words, instead of implementing known safety measures identified by health bodies worldwide and as other countries have looked to, our kids here in Ireland are being treated as *lab rats.*

A new case of a B 1.525k variant has been detected in Ireland along with 5 other countries...Dr.Cillian de Gasgun reported this evening....problem with this variant is it can have a potential impact on vaccines effectiveness...

Stateofyou · 25-02-2021 09:44PM

jrosen wrote: »

Whats your solution?

From what I have read countries have tired different social measures, in my opinion I think all countries are winging it to a degree. Trying to see what can work. Its not faultless but the other option is we keep schools closed for the rest of the school year and hope we have enough people vaccinated to have schools open as normal come September

Edit to add, I think it was a big mistake not to vaccinate teachers as a priority. I said so from the beginning. I think anyone who is working and needs to work outside the home and work with large numbers of people were social distancing isn't always possible should have been vaccinated as a priority.

Haha really gonna ask me that? I've been up and down this thread blathering on about my ideas and opinions for safety measures, even around a year ago.

The thing is, the best known recommendations from WHO, the ECDC, Unicef, CDC, etc which already exist just aren't being implemented here. We all already know what to do, and we also know that the school environment here in Ireland isn't really conducive to those measures either inherently or by DES/NF's efforts.

I remember the first thing I said about a year ago, was that we needed a hybrid remote learning system. This idea came about because I saw that was what the US was doing. It would provide options and choice for students and families who need it. It would provide a plan b for when people became sick or needed to quarantine. Was anything done in that regard? F no. Even now the remote learning that exists is so variable and not equitable. Schools kids are slated to go back but who's looking after the more vulnerable students and their family members? No one. People are told to "kEep yoUr KidS oUt tHeN, no0ne Is StoPpInG YoU." :-s

Other ideas:
-Masks for primary age (recommended by WHO/Unicef)
-Medical grade masks for teachers
-Robust test/tracing system
-Widening the definition of close contact, not narrowing
-Ventilation: conduct surveys. Identify who hasn't got ventilation. Provide installed systems if so. Provide extra funding for heating bills for all windows to remain wide open WITH students in the room (not just open when they're gone)
-Increase cleaning budgets
-Regular, mass testing of staff
-Testing of entire classroom when there's a positive case. (+Notifying parents)
-Monitoring hand sanitising upon arrival/leaving
-Temp checks
-Strong social distancing/controlling how & where people can move around
-Provide proper sanitiser at all times
-Hire more teachers/subs (fix stupid pay grade issue to attract into profession)
-Hybrid remote learning system (see above)
-Phased reopening. This phased reopening would look like dividing classes up to rotate in/out during the week, to include some home based learning. This will reduce class sizes.
*Some of these measures can reduce depending on seasonality or community spread/cases and once vaccination has increased (new variants aside)
-Get some f@cking control at the borders

I think that's all I got

MacDanger · 25-02-2021 09:45PM

khalessi wrote: »

New report out on schools 345 pages of a read

https://parentsutdireland.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/are-irish-schools-safe-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-parents-utd-ireland-report.pdf

There is Nothing Positive about Positivity Rates in Schools.

TBF, you only have to scan through it to see that it's a one-sided "report" which had only one outcome in mind from the very beginning.

khalessi · 25-02-2021 09:47PM

MacDanger wrote: »

TBF, you only have to scan through it to see that it's a one-sided "report" which had only one outcome in mind from the very beginning.

Number 1

Why do you think one sided?

Stateofyou · 25-02-2021 09:49PM

penny piper wrote: »

A new case of a B 1.525k variant has been detected in Ireland along with 5 other countries...Dr.Cillian de Gasgun reported this evening....problem with this variant is it can have a potential impact on vaccines effectiveness...

Ah stop...jfc. Haven't seen that yet. Just read New York now has their own variant too and it's not looking good.

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01