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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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Comments

  • #992
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    plodder wrote: »
    I saw the tweet posted yesterday here. The guy has 13.9K followers. I don't think they can ignore it.

    Since when did the number of twitter followers become a metric to judge the relevance of someones content?


  • #993
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Just on the list thing, Spain according to the BBC ( maybe the BBC has an agenda who knows)is creating a list of people who refuse to take the vaccine and the list will be shared with other EU states.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55471282
    The regional government have also made vaccination mandatory in Galicia.


  • #994
    Gael23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,105 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Could get interesting
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0225/1199178-human-rights-covid-legislation/


  • #995
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Since when did the number of twitter followers become a metric to judge the relevance of someones content?
    It's less about the relevance than the reach and people unthinkingly share all the time. You just need one share from a user with a large following for it to spread fast.


  • #996
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,295 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Ten Covid-19 patients being treated in intensive care died in the 24 hours up to 8am yesterday.

    It was the single highest daily number of Covid deaths in critical care since the pandemic began.
    Hopefully we see a fall in these numbers too.


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  • #997
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Oh please, you've been using mental health and suicide for months on this forum to try and further your own arguments so you yourself are not above using manipulative posting.

    Bit rich for you to be calling others out.

    You are absolutely correct that I’ve voiced my concerns for the ever worsening mental health crisis and suicide issue in this country.

    But I have never ever used the death of a child to manipulate others into ‘getting some perspective’ for ‘what’s important’.
    And I do think the narrative that covid deaths are worse and more sad than any other death is a dangerous one that needs to change.


  • #998
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,937 ✭✭✭plodder


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Since when did the number of twitter followers become a metric to judge the relevance of someones content?
    It's about "publication" of the allegations from a defamation perspective. They might be wondering if they can just ignore that obscure website, but if everyone can see that nearly 14,000 people have seen them, plus whatever number are reading this website, they can't be ignored. People are likely to draw their own conclusions if they don't address the allegations.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • #999
    ShyMets
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭ShyMets


    D.Q wrote: »
    That poster has been like readers digest for the worst possible covid news since the very start of the pandemic. Completely disingenuous.

    The OP is one of the worst on this forum. Personally I haven't taken them seriously in a long time and frankly I'm amazed that some people still do


  • #1000
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Just on the list thing, Spain according to the BBC ( maybe the BBC has an agenda who knows)is creating a list of people who refuse to take the vaccine and the list will be shared with other EU states.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55471282

    Would be a tad uncomfortable with that tbh. If countries don't want you arriving without a vaccine, get the air carriers to require proof of vaccination. But dem lists do be bad stuff.


  • #1001
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Turtwig wrote: »
    1 year into the pandemic and that's not going to happen now. It didn't happen then it's not going to happen now.

    COVID never was the priority above all other matters. The problem is COVID basically cripples every single thing you seem to suggest others are not even considering. It's a bit disappointing that one year in people are still spouting the 'COVID is all they care about' canard.

    Because it's actually everything else aside from COVID that they're trying to maintain. If someone in the world could propose a viable alternative I'd be all for it. Sadly, one year in, I've seen nothing. Nada. Zilch.

    I completely disagree with this, there were many months up to and including this month where at least some of the economy (construction) could be opened safely, but we aren’t doing that. How exactly would opening construction cripple everything?

    During the first lockdown cancer screenings were cancelled for much of it, even though the curve had long been flattened and hospitals were not under pressure at that time.
    There is no reason for GP’s not to be performing smear tests at the moment, but many of them have suspended services because of level 5.
    Women are having to pay privately to have it done because they cannot find a GP who will do one,

    Those are just 3 examples off the top of my head.
    I don’t think offering those services or opening up construction would cripple anything.
    And I don’t see what other conclusion I’m supposed to come to, other than that they are intentionally doing this because they want to direct all resources and attention to the seriousness of the virus.
    For context, I’m not suggesting we let it rip. But I do think there have been times up to and including today where more of a balance could have been met if common sense was applied.


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  • #1002
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    plodder wrote: »
    It's about "publication" of the allegations from a defamation perspective. They might be wondering if they can just ignore that obscure website, but if everyone can see that nearly 14,000 people have seen them, plus whatever number are reading this website, they can't be ignored. People are likely to draw their own conclusions if they don't address the allegations.

    The reason they don't address the allegation is if they do it would be publicised widely. By not addressing it, it remains fringe.

    In spite of the source, I do think there is something to be addressed. The public utterances from McConkey, Ryan and Killeen on the impact of the variants on vaccine effectiveness in particular seem coordinated to maintain a level of anxiety. Any scientist engaging in such deliberate misrepresentation needs to take a good hard look at themselves. What I think has happened is a element of groupthink has set in among the ISAG and at this stage no one wants to go against the prevailing view in the group. Zero covid had some merit as an idea not too long ago. But now with highly effective vaccines, even against new strains, it is a dead duck, or rather aims will actually be achieved through vaccination.


  • #1003
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Yesterday’s drop in ICU was down to death unfortunately

    Whether deaths or discharges the numbers are falling - eg. new cases are not being admitted at the same frequency


  • #1004
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The reason they don't address the allegation is if they do it would be publicised widely. By not addressing it, it remains fringe.

    In spite of the source, I do think there is something to be addressed. The public utterances from McConkey, Ryan and Killeen on the impact of the variants on vaccine effectiveness in particular seem coordinated to maintain a level of anxiety. Any scientist engaging in such deliberate misrepresentation needs to take a good hard look at themselves. What I think has happened is a element of groupthink has set in among the ISAG and at this stage no one wants to go against the prevailing view in the group. Zero covid had some merit as an idea not too long ago. But now with highly effective vaccines, even against new strains, it is a dead duck, or rather aims will actually be achieved through vaccination.

    Well there is definitely group think. Rightly or wrongly, they are so focussed on not having another lockdown like we currently have, that they don't want to exit until they are convinced that is guaranteed.

    Now that is open to debate that we are unnecessarily being completely locked down to save us from another one. I'd say plenty would like sensible reductions in some restrictions coupled with the vaccinations going out, and risk a potential return.


  • #1005
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The reason they don't address the allegation is if they do it would be publicised widely. By not addressing it, it remains fringe.

    In spite of the source, I do think there is something to be addressed. The public utterances from McConkey, Ryan and Killeen on the impact of the variants on vaccine effectiveness in particular seem coordinated to maintain a level of anxiety. Any scientist engaging in such deliberate misrepresentation needs to take a good hard look at themselves. What I think has happened is a element of groupthink has set in among the ISAG and at this stage no one wants to go against the prevailing view in the group. Zero covid had some merit as an idea not too long ago. But now with highly effective vaccines, even against new strains, it is a dead duck, or rather aims will actually be achieved through vaccination.

    They have blood on their hands IMO. My gran won’t take a vaccine after that trainwreck of an interview on Matt Cooper the other night in which Staines (?) said that the vaccines won’t work and we’ll soon be like Manaus. Nothing I say will convince her otherwise


  • #1006
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,652 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Deleted User wrote: »
    They have blood on their hands IMO. My gran won’t take a vaccine after that trainwreck of an interview on Matt Cooper the other night in which Staines (?) said that the vaccines won’t work and we’ll soon be like Manaus. Nothing I say will convince her otherwise

    It is fake news - if it came out of Donald Trumps mouth people would be all over the airwaves calling him out and "fact checking" it - but for some reason these people have free reign over the airwaves and can say what they like unopposed.

    Presenters should at the very least be calling them up on this **** - asking for proof at least.


  • #1007
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,937 ✭✭✭plodder


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The reason they don't address the allegation is if they do it would be publicised widely. By not addressing it, it remains fringe.

    In spite of the source, I do think there is something to be addressed. The public utterances from McConkey, Ryan and Killeen on the impact of the variants on vaccine effectiveness in particular seem coordinated to maintain a level of anxiety. Any scientist engaging in such deliberate misrepresentation needs to take a good hard look at themselves. What I think has happened is a element of groupthink has set in among the ISAG and at this stage no one wants to go against the prevailing view in the group. Zero covid had some merit as an idea not too long ago. But now with highly effective vaccines, even against new strains, it is a dead duck, or rather aims will actually be achieved through vaccination.
    I see they have released some email extracts. While not quite as explosive as promised, I assume they are genuine and this ISAG crowd have really gone down a rabbit hole, and it seems pulling some of the opposition in the Dáil with them.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • #1008
    Sanjuro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Presenters should at the very least be calling them up on this **** - asking for proof at least.

    That's the problem with Irish... eh... "journalism." These TV and radio presenters are just that. They're just there to facilitate guests. Not actually challenge them. Any journalist who actually is confrontational and questions their guests gets labelled as either a bit nutty or never gets the position in the first place. Look at Sarah McInerny getting overlooked. Or Vincent Browne's entire career.


  • #1009
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,144 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I completely disagree with this, there were many months up to and including this month where at least some of the economy (construction) could be opened safely, but we aren’t doing that. How exactly would opening construction cripple everything?

    During the first lockdown cancer screenings were cancelled for much of it, even though the curve had long been flattened and hospitals were not under pressure at that time.
    There is no reason for GP’s not to be performing smear tests at the moment, but many of them have suspended services because of level 5.
    Women are having to pay privately to have it done because they cannot find a GP who will do one,

    Those are just 3 examples off the top of my head.
    I don’t think offering those services or opening up construction would cripple anything.
    And I don’t see what other conclusion I’m supposed to come to, other than that they are intentionally doing this because they want to direct all resources and attention to the seriousness of the virus.
    For context, I’m not suggesting we let it rip. But I do think there have been times up to and including today where more of a balance could have been met if common sense was applied.

    With all due respect, you are neither qualified nor have the information to credibly make that call. Aside from the first few weeks back in last March/April, you've been consistently calling for loosening of the restrictions.

    The best way to get other services back is to reduce the covid burden on the health system, yet over half of the permanent ICU beds we have are filled with covid patients. Your proposal is to relax now, what do you think will happen then? What will the consequences be? It would hardly be further strain on the health system putting back access to services that you profess to care about?


  • #1010
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Whether deaths or discharges the numbers are falling - eg. new cases are not being admitted at the same frequency

    But are they falling at the same rate as before the new dominant variant?

    Does this not point to the issue we are going to soon have with the education sector going back, and with the higher transmissibility?

    The WHO (Mike Ryan) said last year that children aged 10 and older transmit and spread the virus at least as well as adults do. They recommend masks for children aged 6 and older where appropriate.

    The ECDC says masks should not be worn in Primary, only children 12 and older. In the same section, they acknowledge children transmit and spread the virus and now that has increased with the new variant. They recommend strong social distancing in the schools, reduced class sizes, which is not happening. Our DES has stated no masks should be worn for primary students in their v3 2021 doc.

    Starting next week and in the weeks close to follow, around 30 unmasked primary students will be sitting in the same small rooms for hours every day. Most will not even have 1m between them. Some won't have proper ventilation. Many parents will congregate regardless of new policy, as I saw DAILY before schools let out for Christmas.

    And we won't even know how bad it really is. Because the definition of a close contact is different in the schools, some spread is happening unchecked. Which led to many cases being labeled as "community" in origin. Nothing has changed in this policy. There are NO new safety measures for our schools in light of the new variant.

    I think this situation is absolutely bat shít crazy.


  • #1011
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,650 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    That's the problem with Irish... eh... "journalism." These TV and radio presenters are just that. They're just there to facilitate guests. Not actually challenge them. Any journalist who actually is confrontational and questions their guests gets labelled as either a bit nutty or never gets the position in the first place. Look at Sarah McInerny getting overlooked. Or Vincent Browne's entire career.
    Sarah McInerney is co host of a prime drive time slot no?
    She should have 100 percent got the slot given to Claire Byrne I will concede that.

    I do miss Vincent Browne though.


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  • #1012
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    But are they falling at the same rate as before the new dominant variant?

    Does this not point to the issue we are going to soon have with the education sector going back, and with the higher transmissibility?

    The WHO (Mike Ryan) said last year that children aged 10 and older transmit and spread the virus at least as well as adults do. They recommend masks for children aged 6 and older where appropriate.

    The ECDC says masks should not be worn in Primary, only children 12 and older. In the same section, they acknowledge children transmit and spread the virus and now that has increased with the new variant. They recommend strong social distancing in the schools, reduced class sizes, which is not happening. Our DES has stated no masks should be worn for primary students in their v3 2021 doc.

    Starting next week and in the weeks close to follow, around 30 unmasked primary students will be sitting in the same small rooms for hours every day. Most will not even have 1m between them. Some won't have proper ventilation. Many parents will congregate regardless of new policy, as I saw DAILY before schools let out for Christmas.

    And we won't even know how bad it really is. Because the definition of a close contact is different in the schools, some spread is happening unchecked. Which led to many cases being labeled as "community" in origin. Nothing has changed in this policy. There are NO new safety measures for our schools in light of the new variant.

    I think this situation is absolutely bat shít crazy.

    544885.JPG

    And will continue to fall as more and more vulnerable get vaccinated, even if cases stop falling or even start to increase slowly


  • #1013
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,652 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    But are they falling at the same rate as before the new dominant variant?

    Does this not point to the issue we are going to soon have with the education sector going back, and with the higher transmissibility?

    The WHO (Mike Ryan) said last year that children aged 10 and older transmit and spread the virus at least as well as adults do. They recommend masks for children aged 6 and older where appropriate.

    The ECDC says masks should not be worn in Primary, only children 12 and older. In the same section, they acknowledge children transmit and spread the virus and now that has increased with the new variant. They recommend strong social distancing in the schools, reduced class sizes, which is not happening. Our DES has stated no masks should be worn for primary students in their v3 2021 doc.

    Starting next week and in the weeks close to follow, around 30 unmasked primary students will be sitting in the same small rooms for hours every day. Most will not even have 1m between them. Some won't have proper ventilation. Many parents will congregate regardless of new policy, as I saw DAILY before schools let out for Christmas.

    And we won't even know how bad it really is. Because the definition of a close contact is different in the schools, some spread is happening unchecked. Which led to many cases being labeled as "community" in origin. Nothing has changed in this policy. There are NO new safety measures for our schools in light of the new variant.

    I think this situation is absolutely bat shít crazy.

    It's the fact that teachers and students in the same class are not classed as close contacts of confirmed case in the same class.
    There is no logic behind it, and it is actively hurting our covid response and faciliating huge spread of the virus.

    Try to raise it as an issue and you are dismissed or told that the spread is actually community driven (pubs/cafes/house parties)


  • #1014
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,652 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    With all due respect, you are neither qualified nor have the information to credibly make that call. Aside from the first few weeks back in last March/April, you've been consistently calling for loosening of the restrictions.

    The best way to get other services back is to reduce the covid burden on the health system, yet over half of the permanent ICU beds we have are filled with covid patients. Your proposal is to relax now, what do you think will happen then? What will the consequences be? It would hardly be further strain on the health system putting back access to services that you profess to care about?

    Most health services do not depend on ICU beds fyi


  • #1015
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    What are you illustrating there raind, particularly in reference to my question?

    (But are they falling at the same rate as before the new dominant variant?

    Does this not point to the issue we are going to soon have with the education sector going back, and with the higher transmissibility?)


  • #1016
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Most health services do not depend on ICU beds fyi

    True but a lot do. Even if only as a contingency.

    For example if they plan to do 40 knee and hip replacements they might need one icu bed in reserve in case of complications. If they don't have the icu bed they cancel the operations.

    Thats an example. The same applies with a lot of different elective procedures. ICU availability might never be used but its kept as a reserve to allow operations go ahead.


  • #1017
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,144 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Most health services do not depend on ICU beds fyi

    Indeed, but almost all health services are interlinked, for brevity and simplicity ICU capacity was an example I chose as a way of illustrating pressure on the health service from C19.

    But it's not just ICU, Covid testing diverts labs from performing other testing for example


  • #1018
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    timmyntc wrote: »
    It's the fact that teachers and students in the same class are not classed as close contacts of confirmed case in the same class.
    There is no logic behind it, and it is actively hurting our covid response and faciliating huge spread of the virus.

    Try to raise it as an issue and you are dismissed or told that the spread is actually community driven (pubs/cafes/house parties)

    In many cases there were NO close contacts identified. None in the "pod" (what a joke those are). Or maybe they did identify the pod as close contacts, but not the children sitting as close or closer in other pods. And not the SEN teacher that has been there working closely with the student(s). The teachers almost never being classed as close contact.

    I think the reason for the different definition of a close contact in the education sector, is due to the shortage of subs, and the chaos that would follow from so many teachers and students having to quarantine and test.

    So that leaves us with policy and decisions in a huge sector that is borne out of underfunding and resourcing, instead of implementing the best and safest policy we can and according to all the health bodies. Sickening tbh.


  • #1019
    Cork2021
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    Look at this crap again from Ryan! gript(only found out it existed 2 days ago) which I think are off the wall could possibly be onto this! Nothing coming from the zero covid nuts to defend themselves.. I don’t know! But it’s seriously believable now!

    https://twitter.com/eoinneylon/status/1364875153868550144?s=21


  • #1020
    mloc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,445 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Since when did the number of twitter followers become a metric to judge the relevance of someones content?

    Since trump


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  • #1021
    briancoolcat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 92 ✭✭briancoolcat


    I agree with the posters re Matt coopers guests sam mcconkey and Anthony staines the other evening talking down the vaccine and painting a very grim picture going forward. He should have someone equally qualified to counter debate their assertions as I feel it is doom mongering at best and maybe dangerous as some listeners will be making up their minds that the vaccine is not that worthwhile after all and decide not to bother with it. A few thousand texts in to the last word reminding Matt coopers that they are frightening people might spur him to get a counter debate going.


This discussion has been closed.
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