Starlink now open for pre-orders.

Marlow · 23-02-2021 9:28pm

degsie wrote: »

Any chance getting back on topic boys and girls?

Yep.... this is not the NBP thread. This is about fast and quick satellite broadband.

Those who want to discuss the NBP, can go to the NBP thread, please.

/M

NewClareman · 23-02-2021 11:24pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Considering the cost of the NBP you would think below a certain population density it would be fair more efficient and economical to use starlink.

Of course Starlink would be suitable for low population density areas*, that is its primary target. It could even provide a more reliable services as long runs of overhead cable will be at the mercy of the elements. There is no evidence that it was even considered as part of the solution. Instead they went for the most costly solution and dumped it on the taxpayer.

*For clarity: I'm specifically talking about the more remote sites which are the most expensive and difficult to serve.

unkel wrote: »

Indeed and if you've saved €100k or €200k on your house you might well fork out the €80 per month for Starlink without having to rely on the tax payer to give you even more subsidies.

I feel your pain, most people in rural Ireland have no concept of what it is like to live and work in Dublin. Neither do they realise the extent to which rural Ireland is subsidised by taxpayers in cities, particularly Dublin.

I say this as someone from rural Ireland who is about to move into a very rural area with very poor broadband and mobile infrastructure. However, it is my choice to move there and I agree that my services shouldn't be subsidised.

listermint · 23-02-2021 11:34pm

NewClareman wrote: »

Of course Starlink would be suitable for low population density areas. It could even provide a more reliable services as long runs of overhead cable will be at the mercy of the elements. There is no evidence that it was even considered. Instead they went for the most costly solution and dumped it on the taxpayer.

I feel your pain, most people in rural Ireland have no concept of what it is like to live and work in Dublin. Neither do they realise the extent to which rural Ireland is subsidised by taxpayers in cities, particularly Dublin.

I say this as someone from rural Ireland who is about to move into a very rural area with very poor broadband and mobile infrastructure. However, it is my choice to move there and I agree that my services shouldn't be subsidised.

I'm from Dublin. I know fully well what it costs. My jobs based on Dublin. My taxes are paid to the Irish exchequer not the Dublin exchequer.

We put infrastructure on an all island basis or we fail. It's simply not sustainable to not bring fibre across the country but it's also not sustainable to try and educate those that don't want to be educated.

If we refuse to make these big plays. This country will be left on its arse . This is about the only play that FG managed to get right and I'm no fan of that party.

As for starlink. There's still alot of hype on it. I want to see the reality with full load and every second customer streaming home entertainment through it. Right now it's living on easy Street. I've seen various comparisons to a half decent 4g which is great for remote areas.

NewClareman · 24-02-2021 12:58am

Marlow wrote: »

During the Beta, the inter-connect between the satellites was not working yet. So all communication from every single satellite was to groundstation only. Plus only with one ground station.

The way it works going forward is multiple ground stations global and traffic can travel at faster than light between satellites (light in a vacuum, which space is, is faster than light in a fibre optic cable).

So a lot of that has been sorted by now. The increase of speed by the end of year is probably due to more ground stations being operational, so they don't shove all the data down the same downlink and fibre on the ground.

Speedtests, I've seen recently, are pretty consistent around the 150 Mbit/s mark .. unless your dish is covered in snow of course.

/M

The 10 Starlink satellites in polar orbit are the only ones with active inter-satellite links, so still room for big improvements in latency.

Marlow · 24-02-2021 1:34am

NewClareman wrote: »

The 10 Starlink satellites in polar orbit are the only ones with active inter-satellite links, so still room for big improvements in latency.

I wasn't sure, how far they have progressed with that. Haven't been following it too closely. But it's brilliantly thought out.

I'm also really impressed with the motorised auto calibrating transceiver dish. It's 48V PoE powered and very simple to set up, from what I've seen.

Even in the heavy snow in Canada, some of the YouTubers that have documented their endeavors, it's working quite well ... once you get rid of the snow on the dish

/M

NewClareman · 24-02-2021 9:20am

Marlow wrote: »

I wasn't sure, how far they have progressed with that. Haven't been following it too closely. But it's brilliantly thought out.

I'm also really impressed with the motorised auto calibrating transceiver dish. It's 48V PoE powered and very simple to set up, from what I've seen.

Even in the heavy snow in Canada, some of the YouTubers that have documented their endeavors, it's working quite well ... once you get rid of the snow on the dish

/M

I'm following it very closely as I won't have decent broadband where I'm moving to. Fibre is not yet available and there's a shortage of cable pairs, even for rudimentary DSL. Everything is held up due to COVID, or I'd have signed up for Starlink already.

It's absolutely amazing technology and far ahead of competitors. SpaceX are breaking new ground in so many areas simultaneously that it's simply breathtaking. I'd love to get a peep at their space segment protocols, but I doubt we'll ever see them.

The Cush · 24-02-2021 10:45am

Marlow wrote: »

I'm also really impressed with the motorised auto calibrating transceiver dish. It's 48V PoE powered and very simple to set up, from what I've seen.

Phased-array antenna, electronically steerable. I remember way back to the early to mid 1990s a California company put forward a plan to manufacture a phased array antenna for satellite TV reception. It came to nothing in the end and later I later found out the company had closed. At the time phased array antennas were used by the military and the cost was in the region of 10s of thousands of dollars.

At an estimated $2,000 per dish, Swiss manufactured I believe, the technology is still quite expensive but in time and as the domestic market for the technology expands maybe we'll see it in the domestic TV area.

Marlow · 24-02-2021 12:04pm

The Cush wrote: »

At an estimated $2,000 per dish, Swiss manufactured I believe, the technology is still quite expensive but in time and as the domestic market for the technology expands maybe we'll see it in the domestic TV area.

Yes. The price for the gear is heavily subsidised by Starlink, but it'll pay back quickly. They really tried to make it as user friendly as possible.

/M

joe123 · 24-02-2021 4:13pm

Just received an email from Starlink stating orders are now available in my area (North Galway)

Starlink is now available for order to a limited number of users in your coverage area. Placing your order now will hold your place in line for future service. Orders will be fulfilled on a first-come, first-served basis.

During beta, users can expect to see data speeds vary from 50Mb/s to 150Mb/s and latency from 20ms to 40ms in most locations over the next several months as we enhance the Starlink system. There will also be brief periods of no connectivity at all.

As we launch more satellites, install more ground stations and improve our networking software, data speed, latency and uptime will improve dramatically.

The Starlink team will provide periodic updates on availability as we launch more satellites and expand our coverage area. Depending on your location, some orders may take 6 months or more to fulfill.

To check availability for your location, visit Starlink.com and re-enter your service address. Thank you for your interest in Starlink and your continued support!

Honestly would jump at this if pricing was lower. Wonder what the most recent upload speeds were coming in at.

Also curious to see recent tests in what impact a number of devices would have on speeds, eg, Someone downloading/uploading and another person streaming.

EDIT: Meant to ask, is there a contract length associated with Starlink?

Marlow · 24-02-2021 4:27pm

joe123 wrote: »

Honestly would jump at this if pricing was lower. Wonder what the most recent upload speeds were coming in at.

I posted a link to the twitter feed in the very first post. It is full of very recent speed tests. Typically 25-30 Mbit/s upload. Best to read that.

Especially seeing as nobody here has the service yet.

joe123 wrote: »

EDIT: Meant to ask, is there a contract length associated with Starlink?

https://www.starlink.com/legal/terms-of-service-preorder?regionCode=IE

Agreement Term. There is no minimum contract term to obtain Services. You may cancel the Agreement and Services at any time, according to Section 4.2 and SpaceX may terminate the Agreement according to Section 9.

/M

Spocker · 24-02-2021 4:41pm

Signed up for this today too; I'm in a town in South Kilkenny, with no fibre option available to me at the moment, so I'm only getting ~27Mb down and usually less than 2Mb up (so useless for video calls). It'll be interesting to see how this one pans out, I'll be quick to cancel ADSL if it's anyways decent

joe123 · 24-02-2021 4:45pm

Spocker wrote: »

Signed up for this today too; I'm in a town in South Kilkenny, with no fibre option available to me at the moment, so I'm only getting ~27Mb down and usually less than 2Mb up (so useless for video calls). It'll be interesting to see how this one pans out, I'll be quick to cancel ADSL if it's anyways decent

27Mb down and 2 up should be more than capable of video/Zoom etc.

I'm on much worse than that and can still manage the basic Zoom etc. You sure its not more a Wifi issue impacting you before you pay 100 quid a month?

24-02-2021 4:52pm

What's the download limit?

99 is not that much at all imo, well within the range of most normal customers. Good deal if it lets you have usable, decent speeds in your middle of nowhere cottage.

actuar90 · 24-02-2021 5:00pm

joe123 wrote: »

Just received an email from Starlink stating orders are now available in my area (North Galway)

Honestly would jump at this if pricing was lower. Wonder what the most recent upload speeds were coming in at.

Also curious to see recent tests in what impact a number of devices would have on speeds, eg, Someone downloading/uploading and another person streaming.

EDIT: Meant to ask, is there a contract length associated with Starlink?

I got this email too. Its a little vague and I'm not sure if that means if I go and order now will I get the equipment delivered shortly?

It was only a couple weeks ago that there were open for pre-orders with a target of "mid to late 2021"

Spocker · 24-02-2021 5:13pm

joe123 wrote: »

27Mb down and 2 up should be more than capable of video/Zoom etc.

I'm on much worse than that and can still manage the basic Zoom etc. You sure its not more a Wifi issue impacting you before you pay 100 quid a month?

Yep, I'm sure. As an IT professional I spend a lot of my day on calls (on various platforms, Zoom, Meet, Teams etc) and you actually need a decent *upload* speed for the quality of my picture to be any good, at the recipients end. If Starlink works out for me, the extra cost is €40/month, and it's worth it for me

Marlow · 24-02-2021 5:14pm

Adele Aggressive Applause wrote: »

What's the download limit?

Ah here .. come on .. I posted the terms and conditions just a few posts back. The least one could do is read them.

There is no limit specified. Whatsoever. Not even a fair use policy. This is not an irish internet provider.

So, as I read the terms and conditions, there is no limit.

A google search got me this article:
https://www.teslarati.com/starlink-data-caps-comcast-xfinity/

Starlink competitor Xfinity launches data caps, which SpaceX says it will not use

Which confirms that.

/M

listermint · 24-02-2021 5:16pm

Spocker wrote: »

Yep, I'm sure. As an IT professional I spend a lot of my day on calls (on various platforms, Zoom, Meet, Teams etc) and you actually need a decent *upload* speed for the quality of my picture to be any good, at the recipients end. If Starlink works out for me, the extra cost is €40/month, and it's worth it for me

Those speeds should be absolutely fine for video. Unless you've other consumers in the house at the same time.

Marlow · 24-02-2021 5:18pm

listermint wrote: »

Those speeds should be absolutely fine for video. Unless you've other consumers in the house at the same time.

Not, if you have other usage related to said work at the same time.

If you do a zoom call with that little upload, you can't do anything else. And that doesn't work, if you use your internet for other work activities at the same time.

About 10 Mbit/s is really needed to not get stuck. A highly compressed HD stream takes 2-4 Mbit/s on it's own.

/M

listermint · 24-02-2021 5:18pm

Marlow wrote: »

Ah here .. come on .. I posted the terms and conditions just a few posts back. The least one could do is read them.

There is no limit specified. Whatsoever. Not even a fair use policy. This is not an irish internet provider.

So, as I read the terms and conditions, there is no limit.

A google search got me this article:
https://www.teslarati.com/starlink-data-caps-comcast-xfinity/

Which confirms that.

/M

Tbf that confirms nothing. They could stick caps on tomorrow or next week there's nothing in there to say you'd even get your first year without caps on your speeds. It's vague and I don't think that's an unfair concern for the costs

listermint · 24-02-2021 5:19pm

Marlow wrote: »

Not, if you have other usage related to said work at the same time.

If you do a zoom call with that little upload, you can't do anything else. And that doesn't work, if you use your internet for other work activities at the same time.

About 10 Mbit/s is really needed to not get stuck. A highly compressed HD stream takes 2-4 Mbit/s on it's own.

/M

He said he's got 27mb.

24-02-2021 5:20pm

listermint wrote: »

He said he's got 27mb.

27 down, 2 up

listermint · 24-02-2021 5:21pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

27 down, 2 up

Fair but often folks including it professionals simply aren't making the most of their connection by poor internal network setup.

Marlow · 24-02-2021 5:21pm

Spocker wrote: »

Signed up for this today too; I'm in a town in South Kilkenny, with no fibre option available to me at the moment, so I'm only getting ~27Mb down and usually less than 2Mb up (so useless for video calls). It'll be interesting to see how this one pans out, I'll be quick to cancel ADSL if it's anyways decent

listermint wrote: »

He said he's got 27mb.

27 down, less than 2 up.

Need to read the whole post. And you need the upload for Zoom also. Download is useless, if you don't have the upload.

It's a 2-way street ... there's somebody on the other end, that needs the video stream from you also.

/M

Marlow · 24-02-2021 5:24pm

listermint wrote: »

Tbf that confirms nothing. They could stick caps on tomorrow or next week there's nothing in there to say you'd even get your first year without caps on your speeds. It's vague and I don't think that's an unfair concern for the costs

Then read the terms and conditions again, before you sign up (if you do).

Also .. as there is no contract term, one can always cancel, if they change the terms and conditions to something one doesn't like. They have made a clear statement, that there are no limits right now and they don't intend to go down that route.

What exactly is your problem ?

/M

joe123 · 24-02-2021 5:27pm

Spocker wrote: »

Yep, I'm sure. As an IT professional I spend a lot of my day on calls (on various platforms, Zoom, Meet, Teams etc) and you actually need a decent *upload* speed for the quality of my picture to be any good, at the recipients end. If Starlink works out for me, the extra cost is €40/month, and it's worth it for me

No problem, I work in IT myself, just wanted to flag it in case you didnt have a knowledge of it.

Totally agree if you are trying to run downloads/uploads at the same time as Zoom calls it will be a disaster.

BUT if you are the only user with no background usage consuming bandwidth, those speeds would be fine.

I work off ~7 down / 0.5 up and I'm able to manage. As listermint mentions though, you just need to be aware of your internal set up to make the best out of a bad situation.

aFlabbyPanda · 24-02-2021 5:55pm

I ordered it today, also working in IT, plus the wife works from home due to covid, along with 2 teenagers doing school/gaming/netflix etc we are killing my 50mb fixed wireless (it usually only gets about 30mb). We have rural fibre which is 'up to 100mb' but in reality its 18mb to the door.

listermint · 24-02-2021 6:53pm

Marlow wrote: »

Then read the terms and conditions again, before you sign up (if you do).

Also .. as there is no contract term, one can always cancel, if they change the terms and conditions to something one doesn't like. They have made a clear statement, that there are no limits right now and they don't intend to go down that route.

What exactly is your problem ?

/M

No problem. Just making people aware to dig under all the absolute fan boyism for the service that goes on in posts like these.

It's expensive. It's not fully tested yet under load conditions. The terms and conditions are open to change at any point and you'd still be 500 euro in the hole.

So whilst it may very well work for certain people. It can also be an expensive lesson for someone to find out that the problem is actually inside their house and not outside.

You you dislike opposite views to discussion?

Marlow · 24-02-2021 7:34pm

listermint wrote: »

It's expensive. It's not fully tested yet under load conditions. The terms and conditions are open to change at any point and you'd still be 500 euro in the hole.

No, you won't. Because you have equiment, that actually is worth quite a lot and with there be a short supply of these dishes especially being ramped up, I don't see how you couldn't sell the dish on for at least the same money or little under.

As I said, there is nobody preventing you to cancel the service at any given time and flog the equipment to somebody else, that wants the service. There's literally nothing to loose here.

I do like an open discussion. You however don't read half of the content of the posts (like ignoring us discussing upload issues) and always try to dig out the bad out of everything, which is an odd attitude to have. But everyone to their own.

I posted this for a constructive discussion. Not for a negative undermining of every comment or statement made.

/M

irishgeo · 24-02-2021 7:52pm

joe123 wrote: »

Just received an email from Starlink stating orders are now available in my area (North Galway)

Honestly would jump at this if pricing was lower. Wonder what the most recent upload speeds were coming in at.

Also curious to see recent tests in what impact a number of devices would have on speeds, eg, Someone downloading/uploading and another person streaming.

EDIT: Meant to ask, is there a contract length associated with Starlink?

No contact in the pre orders T&C's. Also you cancel your 99 euro deposit at any time before delivery, could take 6 months.

Also states it's for personal use only.

Marlow · 24-02-2021 7:55pm

irishgeo wrote: »

Also states it's for personal use only.

I'll translate that, as you shouldn't start hosting on it or use it to run an internet cafe or the likes. Just my 2c.

Quite similar terms on most other residential broadband offerings.

/M

Starlink now open for pre-orders.

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