The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

MayoAreMagic · 21-02-2021 11:32AM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Irish Independent survey of GAA county chairmen reveals that only 1 /5 of same believe funding to Dublin should be cut and almost none of them believe Dublin should be split into.2/4/6 etc. Full details in this weekends edition.

In fairness, these lads are part of the system that put dublin so far in front in the first place, and im pretty sure they were made aware that their vote would be public knowledge. All sensibility in the intercounty level game points to reclassifying dublin as a province and working from there. Any time a team was dominating the game, crowds dropped off and interest waned. The same is happening now.

ooter · 21-02-2021 12:55PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Any time a team was dominating the game, crowds dropped off and interest waned. The same is happening now.

Kilkenny won 8 AI's in 10 years and it doesn't seem to have done much harm to crowds in that code.
Doping in a sporting context is usually means illegal activity, nothing Dublin have done over the last 15/20 years is illegal.

MayoAreMagic · 21-02-2021 01:17PM

ooter wrote: »

Kilkenny won 8 AI's in 10 years and it doesn't seem to have done much harm to crowds in that code.
Doping in a sporting context is usually means illegal activity, nothing Dublin have done over the last 15/20 years is illegal.

The crowds at hurling matches have increased, and interest in hurling has grown, since that period ended. However, the reality is you dont need to look for comparisons in other sports, we can see the attendances at football matches is dropping in the thousands, the evidence is there in front of you.
Actually, doping means doping. There were people doping in ways that were not illegal at the time throught many sports across the last 40 years. They subsequently were made illegal and it was doping in both instances. There are people still doping now in these sports who are skirting the rule book, but they are still cheating the system and their competitors.
The fact that you have run to the defence of 'well nothing is illegal' only underlines to me that you know it is wrong. Sport is supposed to be a fair competition with the best team winning. This isnt the case any longer in football, and it came to be in a deliberately unfair fashion via shamefully unfair funding. Therefore the term fits. Tou can dislike the term, or the tone in how some use it, but the term itself is factualy accurate.
The fact that the governing body is complicit doesnt change that reality. We had a great product and we have destroyed it truth be told.

ooter · 21-02-2021 01:35PM

Surely receiving money from rich benefactors and holding gala dinners is FD so?

JeffKenna · 21-02-2021 02:17PM

ArielAtom wrote: »

Shock horror, people in charge actually know what is going on!!

Where did that journalist learn maths?

Fann Linn · 21-02-2021 02:23PM

I think the loss of €34,000,000 last year will focus those in GAA HQ. Reading this morning also about John Horan seeking more PPV from streaming channels. I reckon there's gonna be far bigger issues to contend with than the usual cries of splitting Dublin up.

MayoAreMagic · 21-02-2021 02:42PM

ooter wrote: »

Surely receiving money from rich benefactors and holding gala dinners is FD so?

Well the telling difference is everyone can hold a dinner, not everyone can get the governing body to, by design, direct a huge majority of funds to them and away from everyone else for over a decade...
Again, your response of whataboutery as opposed to addressing the point, indicates that you already know it is wrong

ArielAtom · 21-02-2021 02:54PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

Where did that journalist learn maths?

That’s some interpretation. I’ve always been about funding every county with the appropriate amount. I’m not for splitting. I do like your responses though.

ooter · 21-02-2021 03:11PM

Every county doesn't have a Tim O'Leary or a JP McManus, but that appears to be ok and is not FD.
Makes no sense to me.

MayoAreMagic · 21-02-2021 10:54PM

ooter wrote: »

Every county doesn't have a Tim O'Leary or a JP McManus, but that appears to be ok and is not FD.
Makes no sense to me.

It wouldnt bother me if those types were stopped from investing cash into teams. Surely you can see the difference between that and the actual sporting body doing it? For example, the glaziers pumping money into man utd, would be a lot different than uefa doing it, would it not? Surely there is a conflict of interest there? Surely there would be uproar if that happened?

Enquiring · 22-02-2021 06:07PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Irish Independent survey of GAA county chairmen reveals that only 1 /5 of same believe funding to Dublin should be cut and almost none of them believe Dublin should be split into.2/4/6 etc. Full details in this weekends edition.

ArielAtom wrote: »

Shock horror, people in charge actually know what is going on!!

I suppose we shouldn't have been surprised that the journalist was pushing a particular agenda. When it comes to the defence of the financial disparity, it's important to fact check all statements as many of them are questionable, to say the least.

JeffKenna wrote: »

Where did that journalist learn maths?

blanch152 · 23-02-2021 06:47PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It wouldnt bother me if those types were stopped from investing cash into teams. Surely you can see the difference between that and the actual sporting body doing it? For example, the glaziers pumping money into man utd, would be a lot different than uefa doing it, would it not? Surely there is a conflict of interest there? Surely there would be uproar if that happened?

GAA is not a professional sport.

As I have said many times before, those who only view the GAA through a senior inter-county football lens will see Dublin as being over-funded.

However, those who see the GAA through a lens of community involvement, grassroots participation and the promotion of juvenile sport could equally reach a conclusion that Dublin is under-funded.

Enquiring · 24-02-2021 08:40AM

blanch152 wrote: »

GAA is not a professional sport.

As I have said many times before, those who only view the GAA through a senior inter-county football lens will see Dublin as being over-funded.

However, those who see the GAA through a lens of community involvement, grassroots participation and the promotion of juvenile sport could equally reach a conclusion that Dublin is under-funded.

If anyone sees Dublin as under funded after receiving tens of millions for the past two decades, then how would they describe every other county who received fractions of that?

tritium · 24-02-2021 09:34AM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It wouldnt bother me if those types were stopped from investing cash into teams. Surely you can see the difference between that and the actual sporting body doing it? For example, the glaziers pumping money into man utd, would be a lot different than uefa doing it, would it not? Surely there is a conflict of interest there? Surely there would be uproar if that happened?

But the sporting body in this case has been investing (significant sums of) money into counties for far far longer than the dublin project. You’re perfectly entitled to say dublins funding for games development was disproportionate in that time, as is any entitled to say it wasn’t. Certainly the pictures of the finance are more complex than some posters have presented here, and any view is coloured by your opinion of how it should be calculated, which in turn will depend on who you believe the funding is targeting. I’ve made it pretty clear my view is that the funding is aimed at all children in a county (not just GAA registered players) and that per capita is the only fair starting point if that’s the case. While I’m respectful of others views no one has actually been able to dismiss that argument.

A second element to consider is whether prior to the dublin project that distribution was fair. So for example in dublins case we’d reached a point where GAA pitches were disappearing, kids weren’t getting involved and infrastructure was decaying, all to a greater extent than elsewhere. Did the GAA have a duty of care to dublin prior to 2003? Did they fulfil that duty of care? There’s a pretty strong argument that they didn’t and took dublin for granted until it almost died in their arms. Why is it an issue now but not in terms of the impact prior to 2003? Football wasn’t a fair and level playing field before that.

Thats not to say that don’t have a duty of care to other counties now. Most posters on the dublin side are agreeing that funding for others counties should be upped. The reality here is that the dublin project provides a better way to do that with clubs contributing to their own development. The dublin approach allows the GAA to fund fully 32 games development personell but get the benefit of 64. That’s a huge asset in terms of ROI.

Remember this money gets spent on juveniles. Anyone saying it creates some uncatchable lead is ignoring that. Any benefit accrues for the kids and the same approach can be applied to kids in any county with a similar timeframe for any results to be seen..I appreciate that some will say the larger geographic areas need this factored in when calculating spend on games development but equally no one can credibly argue that Mayo for example with 130 thousand people needs the same number of games development personell as dublin with over a million

Enquiring · 24-02-2021 09:59AM

tritium wrote: »

But the sporting body in this case has been investing (significant sums of) money into counties for far far longer than the dublin project. You’re perfectly entitled to say dublins funding for games development was disproportionate in that time, as is any entitled to say it wasn’t. Certainly the pictures of the finance are more complex than some posters have presented here, and any view is coloured by your opinion of how it should be calculated, which in turn will depend on who you believe the funding is targeting. I’ve made it pretty clear my view is that the funding is aimed at all children in a county (not just GAA registered players) and that per capita is the only fair starting point if that’s the case. While I’m respectful of others views no one has actually been able to dismiss that argument.

A second element to consider is whether prior to the dublin project that distribution was fair. So for example in dublins case we’d reached a point where GAA pitches were disappearing, kids weren’t getting involved and infrastructure was decaying, all to a greater extent than elsewhere. Did the GAA have a duty of care to dublin prior to 2003? Did they fulfil that duty of care? There’s a pretty strong argument that they didn’t and took dublin for granted until it almost died in their arms. Why is it an issue now but not in terms of the impact prior to 2003? Football wasn’t a fair and level playing field before that.

Thats not to say that don’t have a duty of care to other counties now. Most posters on the dublin side are agreeing that funding for others counties should be upped. The reality here is that the dublin project provides a better way to do that with clubs contributing to their own development. The dublin approach allows the GAA to fund fully 32 games development personell but get the benefit of 64. That’s a huge asset in terms of ROI.

Remember this money gets spent on juveniles. Anyone saying it creates some uncatchable lead is ignoring that. Any benefit accrues for the kids and the same approach can be applied to kids in any county with a similar timeframe for any results to be seen..I appreciate that some will say the larger geographic areas need this factored in when calculating spend on games development but equally no one can credibly argue that Mayo for example with 130 thousand people needs the same number of games development personell as dublin with over a million

The money wasn't split per capita and still isn't. Everyone was getting in and around the same. Only Dublin were far ahead. This is not opinion, this is a cold, hard, fact.

Do you have any proof that Dublin were receiving less funding than everyone else prior to 2002? You have yet to explain why Dublin deserved 2 decades of over funding while counties in worse situations received fractions of that.

Why limit the program to Dublin for 2 decades? It was such a great plan drawn up for Dublin, why do you think it was fair that every other county were deprived of this?

Of course the money gets spent on juveniles and as senior Dublin GAA employees have stated, it has completely transformed standards across Dublin GAA. Can you explain why Cork with similar amounts of youth teams and players have had access to a tiny fraction of the coaches available to Dublin?

ooter · 24-02-2021 10:44AM

Cork really shouldn't be used as an example, they have received millions of euro from the GAA in recent years

MayoAreMagic · 24-02-2021 11:24AM

blanch152 wrote: »

GAA is not a professional sport.

As I have said many times before, those who only view the GAA through a senior inter-county football lens will see Dublin as being over-funded.

However, those who see the GAA through a lens of community involvement, grassroots participation and the promotion of juvenile sport could equally reach a conclusion that Dublin is under-funded.

Well they could come to that conclusion, but they would be wrong. A child in dublin gets a higher level of investment than most other children elsewhere, so that disproves their belief completely.
However, I dont believe funds should be cut to dublin. They looked to be funded like a province and rightly so. Now they just need to be treated as a province also and the thing will be worth watching again. Nothing groundbreaking or unreasonable there. You can hardly expect to be funded like a province and then not treated like one. That would kinda make the whole thing pointless, not to mention undermine any subsequent success that side got.

MayoAreMagic · 24-02-2021 11:37AM

ooter wrote: »

Cork really shouldn't be used as an example, they have received millions of euro from the GAA in recent years

To build a stadium - another cost that dublin dont have to worry about.
This is actually a very valid point. People look down their nose at county boards and debts, telling them to get their house in order and that they couldnt be trusted with money etc etc. But these debts are generally to do with costs involved in stadia - a massive cost that dublin dont have.
Here is a pertinent question - two decades of cartoonishly biased funding, every advantage you can dream up, further cartoonish population advantages, and Dublin have won all irelands by an odd point in football and nothing in hurling. Furthermore they are unable to cope with fielding even one extra team by the end of it. Has dublin been value for money or has it in fact been hugely wasteful? In 20 years I believe the latter will be the common opinion.

ooter · 24-02-2021 11:47AM

Treating Dublin as a province would be more palatable than splitting Dublin in 2, it would be interesting to see how they'd integrate them in to the championship.
Can't see it happening though, Dublin hurlers can't win in Leinster as it is, it's more championship games they need not less.

kilns · 24-02-2021 11:51AM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

To build a stadium - another cost that dublin dont have to worry about.
This is actually a very valid point. People look down their nose at county boards and debts, telling them to get their house in order and that they couldnt be trusted with money etc etc. But these debts are generally to do with costs involved in stadia - a massive cost that dublin dont have.
Here is a pertinent question - two decades of cartoonishly biased funding, every advantage you can dream up, further cartoonish population advantages, and Dublin have won all irelands by an odd point in football and nothing in hurling. Furthermore they are unable to cope with fielding even one extra team by the end of it. Has dublin been value for money or has it in fact been hugely wasteful? In 20 years I believe the latter will be the common opinion.

To build a stadium yes, that is not needed, a ridic waste of money, its the equiviant of building a 50/60,000 seater stadium in Luxembourg!

Value for money, how would you measure it, I would measure games development funding as not wasted if the numbers of children participating has dramtically increased

MayoAreMagic · 24-02-2021 11:56AM

ooter wrote: »

Treating Dublin as a province would be more palatable than splitting Dublin in 2, it would be interesting to see how they'd integrate them in to the championship.
Can't see it happening though, Dublin hurlers can't win in Leinster as it is, it's more championship games they need not less.

Id imagine the hurlers could continue their development as one, until they could manage otherwise.
Really? So you would rather dublin in the railway cup than 2 dublin teams in the all ireland?

ooter · 24-02-2021 11:58AM

It wasn't to build a stadium, PUC was built in the 70s.
Anyone cribbing about cork not getting enough games development funding has some neck.

Enquiring · 24-02-2021 11:59AM

kilns wrote: »

To build a stadium yes, that is not needed, a ridic waste of money, its the equiviant of building a 50/60,000 seater stadium in Luxembourg!

Value for money, how would you measure it, I would measure games development funding as not wasted if the numbers of children participating has dramtically increased

If you believe it was so beneficial, you obviously have to question why the scheme was limited to one county?

kilns · 24-02-2021 12:03PM

Enquiring wrote: »

If you believe it was so beneficial, you obviously have to question why the scheme was limited to one county?

Was is the appropriate word. What about now?

MayoAreMagic · 24-02-2021 12:04PM

kilns wrote: »

To build a stadium yes, that is not needed, a ridic waste of money, its the equiviant of building a 50/60,000 seater stadium in Luxembourg!

Value for money, how would you measure it, I would measure games development funding as not wasted if the numbers of children participating has dramtically increased

Id imagine the gaa have plans for the stadium. It could host other ventures, maybe an a few all irelands etc.

Re value for money, when you consider what it cost to get participation up in other areas, id imagine it would be seen as a very very expensive exercise. However, Im speaking more about dublin as a whole in respect to its competitors, since it was funded seperately to them.

Your point is undermined by the fact that it was a dublin only measure. The 'think of the children' spiel doesnt work when you only make it available for certain children.

kilns · 24-02-2021 12:05PM

ooter wrote: »

It wasn't to build a stadium, PUC was built in the 70s.
Anyone cribbing about cork not getting enough games development funding has some neck.

Yes and EUR 96m spend to redevelop it. Id like to hear one person justify that

People complain about Dublin funding but 96m for a waste of concrete dwarfs anything funding related

kilns · 24-02-2021 12:07PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Id imagine the gaa have plans for the stadium. It could host other ventures, maybe an a few all irelands etc.

Re value for money, when you consider what it cost to get participation up in other areas, id imagine it would be seen as a very very expensive exercise. However, Im speaking more about dublin as a whole in respect to its competitors, since it was funded seperately to them.

Your point is undermined by the fact that it was a dublin only measure. The 'think of the children' spiel doesnt work when you only make it available for certain children.

So I am sure you are very happy that now it is not only a dublin issue and it is currently being implemented elsewhere

MayoAreMagic · 24-02-2021 12:08PM

kilns wrote: »

Yes and EUR 96m spend to redevelop it. Id like to hear one person justify that

People complain about Dublin funding but 96m for a waste of concrete dwarfs anything funding related

Stadia are expensive and need to be maintained...

MayoAreMagic · 24-02-2021 12:09PM

kilns wrote: »

So I am sure you are very happy that now it is not only a dublin issue and it is currently being implemented elsewhere

What is not only a dublin issue?

ArielAtom · 24-02-2021 12:10PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Stadia are expensive and need to be maintained...

How right you are. I have a simple question for you. If as is the want of many posters here Dublin were "taken" out of CP. Would you be for funding the development of a county ground for Dublin to the tune of PUC redevelopment?

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1