Waterford University discussion

Leo Varadkar's actual reply in the Dail on 18th Feb 2021 to David Cullinane, for information.

The Tánaiste
I am a great supporter of a technological university for the south east. One of my regrets as Taoiseach in the previous Government is that this is one of the measures we did not get over the line. I am determined that we will get it done and up and running in 2022. While I am strongly of the view that it should be centred in Waterford city and we should use some available sites there to expand the university further, it would be a shame if it got delayed or caught up in a row over where the president's office is or where the headquarters should be. One reason the Munster Technological University and Technological University Dublin have gone ahead is because of the disputes between the various campuses in the south east, which have held up the project. That is a shame. Instead of looking for reasons for rows between Carlow and Waterford and perhaps Kilkenny and Wexford, the best thing we can do for the people of the south east is to set up this technological university as soon as we can and deliver its benefits to the region.

azimuth17 wrote: »

Leo Varadkar's actual reply in the Dail on 18th Feb 2021 to David Cullinane, for information.

The Tánaiste
I am a great supporter of a technological university for the south east. One of my regrets as Taoiseach in the previous Government is that this is one of the measures we did not get over the line. I am determined that we will get it done and up and running in 2022. While I am strongly of the view that it should be centred in Waterford city and we should use some available sites there to expand the university further, it would be a shame if it got delayed or caught up in a row over where the president's office is or where the headquarters should be. One reason the Munster Technological University and Technological University Dublin have gone ahead is because of the disputes between the various campuses in the south east, which have held up the project. That is a shame. Instead of looking for reasons for rows between Carlow and Waterford and perhaps Kilkenny and Wexford, the best thing we can do for the people of the south east is to set up this technological university as soon as we can and deliver its benefits to the region.

How can the position of the first TUSE President be advertised when you can't say exactly where they (and their family etc.) would be based? How is that supposed to work to attract "top drawer" candidates from abroad etc.? (Which should be the aim) Assuming that the plan isn't simply to stick in Patricia Mulcahy to reign from Carlow (after some selection process pretence, of course). Isn't a big part of the pre-merger talks about figuring out how the two ITs can become and work well as one TU? Isn't that one of the main critical comments from the Cork/Tralee review panel that there was no plan or vision for how things would work as a single entity? (Before being ignored and MTU rubber-stamped, obviously) So decisions on how things will work, including HQ, have to be decided on up front surely?

While I (cautiously) welcomed Leo Varadkar's comment on Waterford being his preferred choice for HQ, I was disappointed that he quickly shooed away any concerns over it with a "sure just get on with it, like TU Dublin and MTU did!" (Yes, I remember well Blanchardstown, Tallaght and Tralee whining and bitching about how they should be HQ for their respective TUs, and being backed up in their delusion by their local gobshyte politicos). Well, I have a question for Leo Varadkar on this matter: are you still the f*cking leader of FG, and soon to be once again Taoiseach of this country, or not? Well try acting like it, and rein in the ridiculous wanksockery surrounding the TUSE HQ row, which is sowing distrust, resentment and anger everywhere. Just say (or tell Harris to say) that the HQ will "naturally" be in Waterford, as it's the largest campus (in real/non-bull**** terms) with (by far) the most developed research culture and track record for attracting funding etc. You know, the closest to a operating like a university already? (just like DIT and Cork IT were, and GMIT will be when its turn comes around). Just say it and put it to bed for crying out loud! Micheal Martin shouldn't give a tuppenny damn now that Cork has its TU.

curmudgeonly wrote: »

You ignore one simple fact, Craic

Students vote with their CAO points every year, and they want to go to a large Campus where they can study but more importantly have the craic. that is the simple reason small outlying campuses never work, unless it is linked to an Industry specific to it.
Education is a multi billion euro business in Ireland whether we like it or not and big means beautiful to the consumers.

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I've seen a few posts from people (presumably who either never went, or are long after college) from places outside of Dublin and Cork who seem positively delighted at the prospect of colleges staying nearly totally online. They reckon it's great that young people will be able to stay at home rather than move to college, and they're less likely to be get a job or meet others and be "tempted" to stay in the city.

I posted the above in a different forum last month, but I think it applies to small satellite campuses as much as it applies to online classes. I get the impression there's people out there who'd love for the college experience to effectively just be an extension of secondary school with students staying at home with their parents and doing all their learning, shopping, socialising etc. within their immediate locality.

There are many mammies and daddies who can ill afford to send their young to distant educational establishments.
Quite a number cannot afford it at all.
Hence the calls for more local educational services from which their kids can get the same recognised qualification as that from the distant 'Uni'.

It can boil down to 'local or close by, versus not at all'.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

There are many mammies and daddies who can ill afford to send their young to distant educational establishments.
Quite a number cannot afford it at all.
Hence the calls for more local educational services from which their kids can get the same recognised qualification as that from the distant 'Uni'.

It can boil down to 'local or close by, versus not at all'.

It's less than 50 minutes from the New Ross Road Roundabout, Wexford Town down the N25 to WIT. Half the population of the Greater Dublin Region take at least that to get to their nearest Uni.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

There are many mammies and daddies who can ill afford to send their young to distant educational establishments.
Quite a number cannot afford it at all.
Hence the calls for more local educational services from which their kids can get the same recognised qualification as that from the distant 'Uni'.

It can boil down to 'local or close by, versus not at all'.

I would consider WIT and ITCarlow local to the Kilkenny, Portlaoise or Wexford .Its a very manageable bus journeys to either campus.

God this is depressing!

https://www.waterfordchamber.ie/about-us/chamber-news/1958-positivity-must-prevail-on-tuse

They are just bending over and taking it. They are saying we should just accept different treatment than the other regional cities.

Then to top it all of. “After nearly 50 years, this is now within our grasps within a ten-month timeframe. Let’s move forward now as a collective and ensure delivery.” God sake it is like the Fianna Fail / Fianna Gael PR department wrote this. It's just pathetic!

Carlow have been playing the political game , being creative with the student numbers and pushing the narrative that they are an equilvent size and better run organisation than WIT for the last 5 years. There may have been some truth in that when WIT was going through its financial troubles with the Arena and campus services in 2014 but since them WIT has really kicked on in out preforming ITcarlow across the board except maybe in sport . WIT has done massive work in increasing student numbers at undergrad and postgrad while Carlow has plateaued and then declined in the last two years. And when it comes to research with is equilvent in top 6 in the premier league while Carlow is in division 4

Its frustrating the politicians and people in Waterford are only cottoning on to this now ( god knows its been pointed out over and over on this forum) but I think the momentum is moving to Waterford and it will politically unpalatable for the government to be seen to slight Waterford again by putting the HQ in Carlow or Kilkenny. I also think there will be a independent president who will come in from the University sector here or in the UK .There was a lot of political support for Patrica Mulcathy to move from ITCarlow president to TU president in the past but again I think that isn't on the cards any more as again the politics of that appointment would be toxic. Also MTU and TUD went for a new external president and I think that precedent will be followed

I have a question; say this particular TU goes ahead, in terms of University Rankings, how well could it compete with other TU's? WIT was top IT once or twice, but how do people think it will fair?

friendlyfun wrote: »

I have a question; say this particular TU goes ahead, in terms of University Rankings, how well could it compete with other TU's? WIT was top IT once or twice, but how do people think it will fair?

Carlow IT will add very little to WIT doctoral student numbers or research funding levels. €22m versus €2m in favour of WIT. Carlow will be a drag on university level development. Maybe that's the plan?

The two institutions are really very different.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/three-new-technological-universities-may-be-established-by-next-year-1.4493082

Excerpt from article:

"While the bid to create a university in the South-East has been beset with internal rows, Mr Harris said it was his clear intention to “ expand the imprint of higher education in Waterford”. He said it was vital that a “divisive campaign” is not allowed to develop, which would be unfair to both institutes and to the staff who were working to create “something of real benefit to the entirety of the region”. Mr Harris said there was no truth to rumours that the headquarters for the new university will be based in Kilkenny. This question, he said, will be settled by the new governing body for the merged university, and that he will be appointing “sensible” people to this group. Mr Harris said the concept of a technological university was founded on a merging of equals and parity of esteem, and he hoped everyone would seek to assist and advance the proposals positively."

We will have to wait until after the TU is formed to be shafted.

invara wrote: »

MTU president gave evidence to the Oireachtas Education Committee a few days ago, in a long session on TUs. She spoke from Cork and spoke about Kerry as another planet 1.39 ( and 45 seconds) HQ is clearly Cork. Lots of other interesting tidbits.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_education_further_and_higher_education_research_innovation_and_science/2021-02-16/

Patricia Mulcahy in her capacity as deputy chair of THEA was there. She fudged the question on making the April deadline (1.52mins), suggesting that might be looking unlikely. Paul Kehoe (Chair) and Malcolm Byrne turned up at the committee and asked about the Wexford campus. It surprising that Marc Ó Cathasaigh gave his apologies. Certainly one for the TU nerds that you find on boards!

Thanks for that. Clear to see from that, that Wexford would be very supportive of ITCarlow which you would also suspect Kilkenny to be being so close to Carlow.

Really do not see this turning out well for WIT

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I really liked this bit ......

But sure all our politicians & people in wit are saying everything is rosey in the garden - so what’s the issue?

Off topic - how absolutely inept is Hurley in the chamber ? He deserves a thread on his own.