Network Cabling in New development

DubLad69 · 31-12-2020 1:58am #1

I'm looking at purchasing a new build. The house has very high specification throughout and I has just assumed that the house had network cabling, and the only real question was if it was Cat5 or cat6.

However, I've discovered that there is none at all. Is this common in other developments?

fungie · 31-12-2020 10:28am

DubLad69 wrote: »

I'm looking at purchasing a new build. The house has very high specification throughout and I has just assumed that the house had network cabling, and the only real question was if it was Cat5 or cat6.

However, I've discovered that there is none at all. Is this common in other developments?

I had this exact problem too. It seems practically no new developments do this. They will duct a house for fibre but companies like eir and Vodafone will still need to drill in and add wires around a house since no internal networking. Hard to believe but if they aren't required to do it, they generally don't. I'm sure there are some exceptions.

Gumbo · 01-01-2021 12:03am

DubLad69 wrote: »

I'm looking at purchasing a new build. The house has very high specification throughout and I has just assumed that the house had network cabling, and the only real question was if it was Cat5 or cat6.

However, I've discovered that there is none at all. Is this common in other developments?

Network cabling wouldn’t be common in new developments.
It’s usually a specified item and more common to one off builds where the home owner has design input.

DubLad69 · 01-01-2021 10:47am

Gumbo wrote: »

Network cabling wouldn’t be common in new developments.
It’s usually a specified item and more common to one off builds where the home owner has design input.

I was choosing between 3 different developments in Dublin, and 2 of them had network cabling, must have just been very lucky so.

HouseEater · 23-02-2021 12:46pm

I am buying a new build also, and the build spec states that cat5e will be wired in the living room, and also in the kitchen/dining room area.

Just thinking of future proofing, and I have asked about the possibilities of getting cat6 instead. I was quoted that the upgrade to cat6 will cost €550 + VAT. I know cat6 is more expensive than cat5e, but this quote seems excessive. What do people think?

Tij da feen · 23-02-2021 12:53pm

HouseEater wrote: »

I am buying a new build also, and the build spec states that cat5e will be wired in the living room, and also in the kitchen/dining room area.

Just thinking of future proofing, and I have asked about the possibilities of getting cat6 instead. I was quoted that the upgrade to cat6 will cost €550 + VAT. I know cat6 is more expensive than cat5e, but this quote seems excessive. What do people think?

What's the total cost of them installing the 5e? Cat6e cabling is about 10-20% more expensive from a cursory glance. It's also more difficult to work with (although, this wouldn't be of massive concern in a new build).

newirishman · 23-02-2021 12:54pm

HouseEater wrote: »

I am buying a new build also, and the build spec states that cat5e will be wired in the living room, and also in the kitchen/dining room area.

Just thinking of future proofing, and I have asked about the possibilities of getting cat6 instead. I was quoted that the upgrade to cat6 will cost €550 + VAT. I know cat6 is more expensive than cat5e, but this quote seems excessive. What do people think?

Cat 6 is a bit more hassle for connectors, sockets, etc. Cables are a bit more expenses, so some price difference is to be expected. Cat 5e is certainly easier to run.
Is it worth 550 plus VAT is hard to say based on what we know.

Is it worth 550 to you depends on what you expect - 5e is perfectly fine IMO for your normal home, given cable lengths etc. it supports 1GB, and it is very unlikely that any of you devices will support higher speeds anyways. I'd probably spend the 500 quid on proper wifi mesh units on top of the wired connections. And make sure you get at least 2 cable upstairs and into the attic (specifically to supply access points)

dubrov · 23-02-2021 12:59pm

Network cabling is fairly common in new developments. You'd have to be a fairly cheapskate builder not to do it. In saying that though, wireless will be sufficient for most people

Normally they also get Virgin in to lay coaxial cabling. I think Virgin do it for free as it generally isn't suitable for satellite signals and locks the residents in to using their service

23-02-2021 1:00pm

I have Cat6 network cabling in my new build house but as it all goes back to the OpenEir box outside, it’s as much use as a chocolate teapot.

DubLad69 · 23-02-2021 1:07pm

HouseEater wrote: »

I am buying a new build also, and the build spec states that cat5e will be wired in the living room, and also in the kitchen/dining room area.

Just thinking of future proofing, and I have asked about the possibilities of getting cat6 instead. I was quoted that the upgrade to cat6 will cost €550 + VAT. I know cat6 is more expensive than cat5e, but this quote seems excessive. What do people think?

That's basically the full cost of the wiring, if not more. I was looking it up and it's a cheap and easy enough DIY job.

melekalikimaka · 23-02-2021 1:10pm

aside from internal transfer speeds between wired devices, what is the need for it?

dubrov · 23-02-2021 1:14pm

HouseEater wrote:

Just thinking of future proofing, and I have asked about the possibilities of getting cat6 instead. I was quoted that the upgrade to cat6 will cost â‚¬550 + VAT. I know cat6 is more expensive than cat5e, but this quote seems excessive. What do people think?

HouseEater wrote:

I am buying a new build also, and the build spec states that cat5e will be wired in the living room, and also in the kitchen/dining room area.

Labor is exactly the same so the only additional cost is the cable.

Cat6 is more expensive than 5e but only marginally. It obviously depends on length but I'd say less than a tenner extra per 100m. You can check out the prices online easily

TheBoyConor · 23-02-2021 1:18pm

Developers aren't going to network a house. Why would they? It is not necessary to do so under building regs and it would just be another expense for them. They know that the cost of the addition of network cable won't make a blind bit of difference to the sale price of the house so they can't get the return on investement. If some hot shot decides they want it and tries to haggle a few k off the sale price, the developer will just cut them off and sell it full price to the next person who isn't as fussed. They will be quite happy to skip over complainers to sell to the next person.
At the end of the day they want to build houses as cheaply and quickly as possible and sell them for full price to people who don't complain.
And even if they did put in network cable, it would probably be done wrong.
They know that whoever wants it will just go and do it themselves anyway at their own expense.

dubrov · 23-02-2021 1:20pm

Of course it affects the value. Some people wouldn't buy a place without network cabling. Less buyers means lower price.

Sierra Oscar · 23-02-2021 1:25pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Developers aren't going to network a house. Why would they? It is not necessary to do so under building regs and it would just be another expense for them. They know that the cost of the addition of network cable won't make a blind bit of difference to the sale price of the house so they can't get the return on investement. If some hot shot decides they want it and tries to haggle a few k off the sale price, the developer will just cut them off and sell it full price to the next person who isn't as fussed. They will be quite happy to skip over complainers to sell to the next person.
At the end of the day they want to build houses as cheaply and quickly as possible and sell them for full price to people who don't complain.
And even if they did put in network cable, it would probably be done wrong.
They know that whoever wants it will just go and do it themselves anyway at their own expense.

That's a bit of a sweeping statement. Plenty of developers are networking new builds as standard. It's certainly not present in every new build, but its not exactly uncommon either. I know its something I would look for a in a new build.

awec · 23-02-2021 1:28pm

All of the new builds around here have it as standard.

That's my own anecdotal experience anyway.

TheBoyConor · 23-02-2021 1:28pm

If i was a developer, I wouldn't be wiring out houses with ethernet. It is a cost that won't be recouped in the sale price. The average punter on the housing market doesn't even know what ethernet or CAT 6 cable is. So why would you add the cost and complexity for it. If someone makes an issue of it, tell em "fine, don't buy it so, I'll sell it to the next punter in the queue who is blissfully ignorant and even doesn't know what a network cable is"

dubrov · 23-02-2021 1:34pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

If i was a developer, I wouldn't be wiring out houses with ethernet. It is a cost that won't be recouped in the sale price. The average punter on the housing market doesn't even know what ethernet or CAT 6 cable is. So why would you add the cost and complexity for it. If someone makes an issue of it, tell em "fine, don't buy it so, I'll sell it to the next punter in the queue who is blissfully ignorant and even doesn't know what a network cable is"

The next punter in the queue may not be able to offer the asking.

There is no infinite queue of buyers for new developments. If there is a massive waiting list for a specific development, it just means the builder set the price too low.

TheBoyConor · 23-02-2021 2:04pm

Are you kidding me? There are people queuing up and climbing over eachother to buy houses! Talk to any EA selling from a new development. Sure, the next punter might not be offering the asking price but hey, fúck em, then next fella might be. I know of developments where you don't even get a response from them unless you are offering the full asking price with a mortgage approval letter from the get go and then after, it is very much a "you can take it or you can fúckin leave it" type transaction.

23-02-2021 3:07pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

If i was a developer, I wouldn't be wiring out houses with ethernet. It is a cost that won't be recouped in the sale price. The average punter on the housing market doesn't even know what ethernet or CAT 6 cable is. So why would you add the cost and complexity for it. If someone makes an issue of it, tell em "fine, don't buy it so, I'll sell it to the next punter in the queue who is blissfully ignorant and even doesn't know what a network cable is"

Given covid and the rise in home working, this is a bad take.

pairofpears · 23-02-2021 3:16pm

I would opt for Cat6A if you can as it is best suited for HDMI transmission and can handle 10gig speeds with 500mhz bandwidth.
The electricians would pay no more than €30 per box more for Cat6 compared to Cat5E in an electrical wholesalers and the electrical wholesalers can easily get Cat6A.
I have a self build where I have Cat6 for cctv, Cat6A for network and TV and fibre going to every room in case it ever goes fibre to the outlet. My sister however paid extra for Cat6 in her house in a development in Maynooth and the cheap electrician put in Cat5E.

TheBoyConor · 23-02-2021 3:20pm

Electrician knows that 99% of people won't know the difference or even care.

you spotted it here, but how many other houses has he don't where noone is any the wiser.

HouseEater · 23-02-2021 3:20pm

newirishman wrote: »

Cat 6 is a bit more hassle for connectors, sockets, etc. Cables are a bit more expenses, so some price difference is to be expected. Cat 5e is certainly easier to run.
Is it worth 550 plus VAT is hard to say based on what we know.

Is it worth 550 to you depends on what you expect - 5e is perfectly fine IMO for your normal home, given cable lengths etc. it supports 1GB, and it is very unlikely that any of you devices will support higher speeds anyways. I'd probably spend the 500 quid on proper wifi mesh units on top of the wired connections. And make sure you get at least 2 cable upstairs and into the attic (specifically to supply access points)

I'm not very familiar with how the wiring is done to be honest. e.g. where will the cables go from and to? e.g. where would the cable endpoints in the living room and kitchen area connect to? Also if I was to run cables upstairs, again where connect to? I assume there would be common terminal point where say I could install an ethernet hub. (assuming I am using the right terminology)

Tij da feen wrote: »

What's the total cost of them installing the 5e? Cat6e cabling is about 10-20% more expensive from a cursory glance. It's also more difficult to work with (although, this wouldn't be of massive concern in a new build).

I am not sure, as the build will come with cat5e as standard.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

aside from internal transfer speeds between wired devices, what is the need for it?

I was more just thinking about future proofing. It's my understanding that cat5e is quite old today. I am just trying to understand if its better and cost effective to to install cat6 today, rather than worry about it in 10 years time. I think its worth asking these questions now, rather than later.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Developers aren't going to network a house. Why would they? It is not necessary to do so under building regs and it would just be another expense for them.

Quite a lot of the new builds I visited had network cabling installed. Cairn homes also had cat6 cabling installed to both downstairs and upstairs.

TheBoyConor · 23-02-2021 3:36pm

Quite a lot of the new builds I visited had network cabling installed. Cairn homes also had cat6 cabling installed to both downstairs and upstairs.

I don't konw why they are doing it because it is costing extra but it isn't adding anything to the sale price. 4 things count towards the price of a house - square footage, location, location and location.
Everything else is an insignificant contributor.

awec · 23-02-2021 4:02pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I don't konw why they are doing it because it is costing extra but it isn't adding anything to the sale price. 4 things count towards the price of a house - square footage, location, location and location.
Everything else is an insignificant contributor.

That's a bit silly, of course the quality of finish has a significant impact on the cost.

They do the network cabling because people often want it and it costs them almost nothing to do it. You can guarantee it'll be listed as one of the key features on the brochure, it's popular.

While demand is high, people aren't just buying any old thing that's been thrown up.

TheBoyConor · 23-02-2021 4:04pm

I'm surprised if they are putting it in because of demand. The average joe schmoe walking the street doesnt even know what it is let alone expect their new house to come with it.

awec · 23-02-2021 4:11pm

Usually all they do is the chasing of the cables through the walls. They usually put blank faceplates on and don't install any switches or patch panels. Doing this when constructing the house costs them almost nothing at all, pretty much just the cost of the cabling itself.

Crimping the cables, installing rj45 faceplates and setting up the network is usually left to the home owner and that's the time consuming bit that can cost a few quid if the home owner isn't capable of doing it themselves.

Pete123456 · 23-02-2021 4:13pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I'm surprised if they are putting it in because of demand. The average joe schmoe walking the street doesnt even know what it is let alone expect their new house to come with it.

Without detailing the thread though in fairness the same argument could be made for other finishes - why include space for more than a single oven - most people don’t use a second, or why wire the house with fibre - shur most people are happy with basic broadband.

I’m buying a house and I’m very glad it has network cable installed - I’ll probably end up putting in more... in an ideal world all of these things will be more than standard in a homes in 20 or 30 years time if they continue the way things are going. People will catch up.

You also need to consider some people will think they’re getting something nice or useful and it’s used a selling point as mentioned above. The dealer was very quick to tell me “oh your car has voice control” for example and I can tell you I’ve probably used it twice.... that doesn’t mean I don’t use Siri though

astrofool · 23-02-2021 11:49pm

Very little difference between cabling 5e and 6, 6 can actually be easier as the cables are a bit less prone to bending and kinking. Now, the certification of 6 vs. 5e could cost a bit (if they're doing it officially). 6a is tougher as the cables are a good bit bigger, and the bending angles are wider, and certification and the ports all cost more.

If I was cheaping out, I'd put in 6a cabling, and finish it with cat6 or 5e modules, you'll never replace the cabling, but the modules are quick enough to change over.

theteal · 24-02-2021 7:23am

I would assume the cable runs are there in any new build in this day and age. Whatever about the terminations, it would cost next to nothing just to have the cable in place. It would definitely be a bad mark on the pros/cons list of a buyer.

The brothers house has eth ports in every room which run down to the utility where theres a blank faceplate. Not a cheap house but again, I'd assume standard at this stage.

TheBoyConor · 24-02-2021 11:23am

It certainly isn't standard. There is no requirement to do it.

No harm put in in and it is future proofed, but at the end of the day the vast majority of people wouldn't know what an ethernet cable or RJ45 faceplate was if it hit them in the face. So it doesn't even cross most people's minds when buying a house, so many builders simply won't bother with it.

Network Cabling in New development

Comments