Network Cabling in New development

DubLad69

I'm looking at purchasing a new build. The house has very high specification throughout and I has just assumed that the house had network cabling, and the only real question was if it was Cat5 or cat6.

However, I've discovered that there is none at all. Is this common in other developments?

fungie

DubLad69 wrote: »

I'm looking at purchasing a new build. The house has very high specification throughout and I has just assumed that the house had network cabling, and the only real question was if it was Cat5 or cat6.

However, I've discovered that there is none at all. Is this common in other developments?

I had this exact problem too. It seems practically no new developments do this. They will duct a house for fibre but companies like eir and Vodafone will still need to drill in and add wires around a house since no internal networking. Hard to believe but if they aren't required to do it, they generally don't. I'm sure there are some exceptions.

Gumbo

DubLad69 wrote: »

I'm looking at purchasing a new build. The house has very high specification throughout and I has just assumed that the house had network cabling, and the only real question was if it was Cat5 or cat6.

However, I've discovered that there is none at all. Is this common in other developments?

Network cabling wouldn’t be common in new developments.
It’s usually a specified item and more common to one off builds where the home owner has design input.

DubLad69

Gumbo wrote: »

Network cabling wouldn’t be common in new developments.
It’s usually a specified item and more common to one off builds where the home owner has design input.

I was choosing between 3 different developments in Dublin, and 2 of them had network cabling, must have just been very lucky so.

HouseEater

I am buying a new build also, and the build spec states that cat5e will be wired in the living room, and also in the kitchen/dining room area.

Just thinking of future proofing, and I have asked about the possibilities of getting cat6 instead. I was quoted that the upgrade to cat6 will cost €550 + VAT. I know cat6 is more expensive than cat5e, but this quote seems excessive. What do people think?

Tij da feen

HouseEater wrote: »

I am buying a new build also, and the build spec states that cat5e will be wired in the living room, and also in the kitchen/dining room area.

Just thinking of future proofing, and I have asked about the possibilities of getting cat6 instead. I was quoted that the upgrade to cat6 will cost €550 + VAT. I know cat6 is more expensive than cat5e, but this quote seems excessive. What do people think?

What's the total cost of them installing the 5e? Cat6e cabling is about 10-20% more expensive from a cursory glance. It's also more difficult to work with (although, this wouldn't be of massive concern in a new build).

newirishman

HouseEater wrote: »

I am buying a new build also, and the build spec states that cat5e will be wired in the living room, and also in the kitchen/dining room area.

Just thinking of future proofing, and I have asked about the possibilities of getting cat6 instead. I was quoted that the upgrade to cat6 will cost €550 + VAT. I know cat6 is more expensive than cat5e, but this quote seems excessive. What do people think?

Cat 6 is a bit more hassle for connectors, sockets, etc. Cables are a bit more expenses, so some price difference is to be expected. Cat 5e is certainly easier to run.
Is it worth 550 plus VAT is hard to say based on what we know.

Is it worth 550 to you depends on what you expect - 5e is perfectly fine IMO for your normal home, given cable lengths etc. it supports 1GB, and it is very unlikely that any of you devices will support higher speeds anyways. I'd probably spend the 500 quid on proper wifi mesh units on top of the wired connections. And make sure you get at least 2 cable upstairs and into the attic (specifically to supply access points)

dubrov

Network cabling is fairly common in new developments. You'd have to be a fairly cheapskate builder not to do it. In saying that though, wireless will be sufficient for most people

Normally they also get Virgin in to lay coaxial cabling. I think Virgin do it for free as it generally isn't suitable for satellite signals and locks the residents in to using their service

I have Cat6 network cabling in my new build house but as it all goes back to the OpenEir box outside, it’s as much use as a chocolate teapot.

DubLad69

HouseEater wrote: »

I am buying a new build also, and the build spec states that cat5e will be wired in the living room, and also in the kitchen/dining room area.

Just thinking of future proofing, and I have asked about the possibilities of getting cat6 instead. I was quoted that the upgrade to cat6 will cost €550 + VAT. I know cat6 is more expensive than cat5e, but this quote seems excessive. What do people think?

That's basically the full cost of the wiring, if not more. I was looking it up and it's a cheap and easy enough DIY job.

melekalikimaka

aside from internal transfer speeds between wired devices, what is the need for it?

dubrov

HouseEater wrote:

Just thinking of future proofing, and I have asked about the possibilities of getting cat6 instead. I was quoted that the upgrade to cat6 will cost €550 + VAT. I know cat6 is more expensive than cat5e, but this quote seems excessive. What do people think?

HouseEater wrote:

I am buying a new build also, and the build spec states that cat5e will be wired in the living room, and also in the kitchen/dining room area.

Labor is exactly the same so the only additional cost is the cable.

Cat6 is more expensive than 5e but only marginally. It obviously depends on length but I'd say less than a tenner extra per 100m. You can check out the prices online easily

TheBoyConor

Developers aren't going to network a house. Why would they? It is not necessary to do so under building regs and it would just be another expense for them. They know that the cost of the addition of network cable won't make a blind bit of difference to the sale price of the house so they can't get the return on investement. If some hot shot decides they want it and tries to haggle a few k off the sale price, the developer will just cut them off and sell it full price to the next person who isn't as fussed. They will be quite happy to skip over complainers to sell to the next person.
At the end of the day they want to build houses as cheaply and quickly as possible and sell them for full price to people who don't complain.
And even if they did put in network cable, it would probably be done wrong.
They know that whoever wants it will just go and do it themselves anyway at their own expense.

dubrov

Of course it affects the value. Some people wouldn't buy a place without network cabling. Less buyers means lower price.

Sierra Oscar

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Developers aren't going to network a house. Why would they? It is not necessary to do so under building regs and it would just be another expense for them. They know that the cost of the addition of network cable won't make a blind bit of difference to the sale price of the house so they can't get the return on investement. If some hot shot decides they want it and tries to haggle a few k off the sale price, the developer will just cut them off and sell it full price to the next person who isn't as fussed. They will be quite happy to skip over complainers to sell to the next person.
At the end of the day they want to build houses as cheaply and quickly as possible and sell them for full price to people who don't complain.
And even if they did put in network cable, it would probably be done wrong.
They know that whoever wants it will just go and do it themselves anyway at their own expense.

That's a bit of a sweeping statement. Plenty of developers are networking new builds as standard. It's certainly not present in every new build, but its not exactly uncommon either. I know its something I would look for a in a new build.

awec

All of the new builds around here have it as standard.

That's my own anecdotal experience anyway.

TheBoyConor

If i was a developer, I wouldn't be wiring out houses with ethernet. It is a cost that won't be recouped in the sale price. The average punter on the housing market doesn't even know what ethernet or CAT 6 cable is. So why would you add the cost and complexity for it. If someone makes an issue of it, tell em "fine, don't buy it so, I'll sell it to the next punter in the queue who is blissfully ignorant and even doesn't know what a network cable is"

dubrov

TheBoyConor wrote: »

If i was a developer, I wouldn't be wiring out houses with ethernet. It is a cost that won't be recouped in the sale price. The average punter on the housing market doesn't even know what ethernet or CAT 6 cable is. So why would you add the cost and complexity for it. If someone makes an issue of it, tell em "fine, don't buy it so, I'll sell it to the next punter in the queue who is blissfully ignorant and even doesn't know what a network cable is"

The next punter in the queue may not be able to offer the asking.

There is no infinite queue of buyers for new developments. If there is a massive waiting list for a specific development, it just means the builder set the price too low.

TheBoyConor

Are you kidding me? There are people queuing up and climbing over eachother to buy houses! Talk to any EA selling from a new development. Sure, the next punter might not be offering the asking price but hey, fúck em, then next fella might be. I know of developments where you don't even get a response from them unless you are offering the full asking price with a mortgage approval letter from the get go and then after, it is very much a "you can take it or you can fúckin leave it" type transaction.

TheBoyConor

TheBoyConor wrote: »

If i was a developer, I wouldn't be wiring out houses with ethernet. It is a cost that won't be recouped in the sale price. The average punter on the housing market doesn't even know what ethernet or CAT 6 cable is. So why would you add the cost and complexity for it. If someone makes an issue of it, tell em "fine, don't buy it so, I'll sell it to the next punter in the queue who is blissfully ignorant and even doesn't know what a network cable is"

Given covid and the rise in home working, this is a bad take.

pairofpears

I would opt for Cat6A if you can as it is best suited for HDMI transmission and can handle 10gig speeds with 500mhz bandwidth.
The electricians would pay no more than €30 per box more for Cat6 compared to Cat5E in an electrical wholesalers and the electrical wholesalers can easily get Cat6A.
I have a self build where I have Cat6 for cctv, Cat6A for network and TV and fibre going to every room in case it ever goes fibre to the outlet. My sister however paid extra for Cat6 in her house in a development in Maynooth and the cheap electrician put in Cat5E.

TheBoyConor

Electrician knows that 99% of people won't know the difference or even care.

you spotted it here, but how many other houses has he don't where noone is any the wiser.

HouseEater

newirishman wrote: »

Cat 6 is a bit more hassle for connectors, sockets, etc. Cables are a bit more expenses, so some price difference is to be expected. Cat 5e is certainly easier to run.
Is it worth 550 plus VAT is hard to say based on what we know.

Is it worth 550 to you depends on what you expect - 5e is perfectly fine IMO for your normal home, given cable lengths etc. it supports 1GB, and it is very unlikely that any of you devices will support higher speeds anyways. I'd probably spend the 500 quid on proper wifi mesh units on top of the wired connections. And make sure you get at least 2 cable upstairs and into the attic (specifically to supply access points)

I'm not very familiar with how the wiring is done to be honest. e.g. where will the cables go from and to? e.g. where would the cable endpoints in the living room and kitchen area connect to? Also if I was to run cables upstairs, again where connect to? I assume there would be common terminal point where say I could install an ethernet hub. (assuming I am using the right terminology)

Tij da feen wrote: »

What's the total cost of them installing the 5e? Cat6e cabling is about 10-20% more expensive from a cursory glance. It's also more difficult to work with (although, this wouldn't be of massive concern in a new build).

I am not sure, as the build will come with cat5e as standard.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

aside from internal transfer speeds between wired devices, what is the need for it?

I was more just thinking about future proofing. It's my understanding that cat5e is quite old today. I am just trying to understand if its better and cost effective to to install cat6 today, rather than worry about it in 10 years time. I think its worth asking these questions now, rather than later.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Developers aren't going to network a house. Why would they? It is not necessary to do so under building regs and it would just be another expense for them.

Quite a lot of the new builds I visited had network cabling installed. Cairn homes also had cat6 cabling installed to both downstairs and upstairs.

TheBoyConor

Quite a lot of the new builds I visited had network cabling installed. Cairn homes also had cat6 cabling installed to both downstairs and upstairs.

I don't konw why they are doing it because it is costing extra but it isn't adding anything to the sale price. 4 things count towards the price of a house - square footage, location, location and location.
Everything else is an insignificant contributor.

awec

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I don't konw why they are doing it because it is costing extra but it isn't adding anything to the sale price. 4 things count towards the price of a house - square footage, location, location and location.
Everything else is an insignificant contributor.

That's a bit silly, of course the quality of finish has a significant impact on the cost.

They do the network cabling because people often want it and it costs them almost nothing to do it. You can guarantee it'll be listed as one of the key features on the brochure, it's popular.

While demand is high, people aren't just buying any old thing that's been thrown up.

TheBoyConor

I'm surprised if they are putting it in because of demand. The average joe schmoe walking the street doesnt even know what it is let alone expect their new house to come with it.

awec

Usually all they do is the chasing of the cables through the walls. They usually put blank faceplates on and don't install any switches or patch panels. Doing this when constructing the house costs them almost nothing at all, pretty much just the cost of the cabling itself.

Crimping the cables, installing rj45 faceplates and setting up the network is usually left to the home owner and that's the time consuming bit that can cost a few quid if the home owner isn't capable of doing it themselves.

Pete123456

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I'm surprised if they are putting it in because of demand. The average joe schmoe walking the street doesnt even know what it is let alone expect their new house to come with it.

Without detailing the thread though in fairness the same argument could be made for other finishes - why include space for more than a single oven - most people don’t use a second, or why wire the house with fibre - shur most people are happy with basic broadband.

I’m buying a house and I’m very glad it has network cable installed - I’ll probably end up putting in more... in an ideal world all of these things will be more than standard in a homes in 20 or 30 years time if they continue the way things are going. People will catch up.

You also need to consider some people will think they’re getting something nice or useful and it’s used a selling point as mentioned above. The dealer was very quick to tell me “oh your car has voice control” for example and I can tell you I’ve probably used it twice.... that doesn’t mean I don’t use Siri though

astrofool

Very little difference between cabling 5e and 6, 6 can actually be easier as the cables are a bit less prone to bending and kinking. Now, the certification of 6 vs. 5e could cost a bit (if they're doing it officially). 6a is tougher as the cables are a good bit bigger, and the bending angles are wider, and certification and the ports all cost more.

If I was cheaping out, I'd put in 6a cabling, and finish it with cat6 or 5e modules, you'll never replace the cabling, but the modules are quick enough to change over.

theteal

I would assume the cable runs are there in any new build in this day and age. Whatever about the terminations, it would cost next to nothing just to have the cable in place. It would definitely be a bad mark on the pros/cons list of a buyer.

The brothers house has eth ports in every room which run down to the utility where theres a blank faceplate. Not a cheap house but again, I'd assume standard at this stage.

TheBoyConor

It certainly isn't standard. There is no requirement to do it.

No harm put in in and it is future proofed, but at the end of the day the vast majority of people wouldn't know what an ethernet cable or RJ45 faceplate was if it hit them in the face. So it doesn't even cross most people's minds when buying a house, so many builders simply won't bother with it.

dubrov

TheBoyConor wrote:

No harm put in in and it is future proofed, but at the end of the day the vast majority of people wouldn't know what an ethernet cable or RJ45 faceplate was if it hit them in the face. So it doesn't even cross most people's minds when buying a house, so many builders simply won't bother with it.

TV streaming is huge now and growing. I'd be surprised if most people weren't thinking about internet service provision when buying or renting

TheBoyConor

TV streaming is and people do know about that. But they don't know the ins and outs of it. Internet, ethernet, wifi, smart TV, etc etc, it is all just "wifi" in their minds.

Cuddlesworth

dubrov wrote: »

Of course it affects the value. Some people wouldn't buy a place without network cabling. Less buyers means lower price.

The vast majority of people I know wouldn't care either way.

Cat5e is fine. People here and elsewhere keep talking about 10gig ethernet like its going to become a common place thing. It's not, not for a very long time. The reality of it is that increasing speeds past 1 gig is of significantly diminishing returns.

Take the extra 500 quid, invest into some well placed access points to get good wifi signal throughout the house.

TheBoyConor

I'm sorry but network cabling does not have any significant effect on the sale price. Sure, some people would value it and know the ins and outs of it, but the majority haven't a notion or a care in the world about it.
The chances are if it is put in , it'll be the wrong spec, improperly wired and a poor quality job.

10 gig is largely pointless in most of the country when the broadband service can barely deliver 500mbs and even far, far less in most cases.

Pete123456

An interesting thing I came across was the request for further information from Meath Co Co for the next phase of an estate.

I realise it’s a suggestion/recommendation but I must say I’m very glad to see it recommended!

TheBoyConor

council are going outsite of their remit by making commenting on the internal fit out of the houses. They should be concerned with ensuring appropriate ducting is installed to get a broadband service up to the door and no more.

Pete123456

TheBoyConor wrote: »

council are going outsite of their remit by making commenting on the internal fit out of the houses. They should be concerned with ensuring appropriate ducting is installed to get a broadband service up to the door and no more.

Agree with ensuring there are are least two service providers available to the property, but I think it’s a good thing that they recommend networking the houses - the developer will probably comply just for the sake of “meeting the recommendations” in case they have to revise something else - its costing them very little and it means if you or I buy the house in 5 years time it should have that little extra feature.

The 1 in 20 people that know what it’s used for will appreciate it also. At the end of the day it does no harm to fit it I think...

awec

It is so cheap and easy for them to do it that they may as well even if only 1 in 20 buyers are interested in it.

Pete123456

awec wrote: »

It is so cheap and easy for them to do it that they may as well even if only 1 in 20 buyers are interested in it.

Exactly - and I consider myself the 1 in 20 in this case!

discodiva92

Network cabling what exactly would that mean?

Pete123456

discodiva92 wrote: »

Network cabling what exactly would that mean?

It means Ethernet cables ran between rooms to allow for hardwired connections for devices to your broadband router. Basically instead of WiFi you’re plugging the device straight into the router which, in theory, means a faster more stable connection, especially with the higher standards of construction in new builds or with older concrete houses.

As a follow on, if you connect a few or most of your devices with network cable it means that your WiFi network is less congested and should perform better also.

riclad

It would be pointless to install ethernet in every house ,
since many houses will have no internet,
Many older people do not need broadband or want to pay for it.
i moved into a new apartment, every unit has a telephone cable wired
into it, with a wired socket ,to plug a phone into,
or to plug in a broadband router .
most people i know just use the wifi from the router ,
and use 1 ethernet cable to plug into a pc or a gaming console.
probably 1 in 10 people would use it ,if every unit had ethernet cables installed.
i setup a network using 2 units like this

https://www.currys.ie/ieen/computing-accessories/networking/powerline/tp-link-tl-pa4010-powerline-adapter-kit-av600-twin-pack-10143560-pdt.html?istCompanyId=fbc6ef6d-ab18-45e3-927a-0cb677794424&istFeedId=0959f117-9faa-4499-80bd-c0265bb2950e&istItemId=wrwtplqai&istBid=t&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-OeBBhDiARIsADyBcE6CfFI0sTylqj-DYeaAjfqMK5WVizxvsnlgi4atX6rMDP10TxYtoOoaAo1oEALw_wcB

to connect an xbox to the router since it was easier than running
ethernet through 3 rooms .

its helpful if the houses are prewired ,
eg theres a phone line going into each house to a connection
point usually in the hall or a room downstairs .
this line connects to the local telecom network cabinet.
This enables a quick connection if you decide to order broadband
when you move in .
Some people just use the internet using a mobile phone.

Subutai

riclad wrote: »

It would be pointless to install ethernet in every house ,
since many houses will have no internet,
Many older people do not need broadband or want to pay for it.
i moved into a new apartment, every unit has a telephone cable wired
into it, with a wired socket ,to plug a phone into,
or to plug in a broadband router .
most people i know just use the wifi from the router ,
and use 1 ethernet cable to plug into a pc or a gaming console.
probably 1 in 10 people would use it ,if every unit had ethernet cables installed.
i setup a network using 2 units like this

https://www.currys.ie/ieen/computing-accessories/networking/powerline/tp-link-tl-pa4010-powerline-adapter-kit-av600-twin-pack-10143560-pdt.html?istCompanyId=fbc6ef6d-ab18-45e3-927a-0cb677794424&istFeedId=0959f117-9faa-4499-80bd-c0265bb2950e&istItemId=wrwtplqai&istBid=t&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-OeBBhDiARIsADyBcE6CfFI0sTylqj-DYeaAjfqMK5WVizxvsnlgi4atX6rMDP10TxYtoOoaAo1oEALw_wcB

to connect an xbox to the router since it was easier than running
ethernet through 3 rooms .

its helpful if the houses are prewired ,
eg theres a phone line going into each house to a connection
point usually in the hall or a room downstairs .
this line connects to the local telecom network cabinet.
This enables a quick connection if you decide to order broadband
when you move in .
Some people just use the internet using a mobile phone.

Powerline is very limited when compared with proper Cat6 cabling throughout the property.

In sure old people and luddites would find little use for it. They're unlikely to be in the market for a new build. It makes complete sense for someone to future proof their property. IOT is only becoming bigger, as are the demands on streaming and remote work.

Loads of people who thought their Internet was grand found out that it wasn't up to scratch during the pandemic when multiple members of the household needing to video conference at once became common.

discodiva92

Sounds like overkill if you want it out it in yourself I doubt most people know or care about it

Yellow_Fern

newirishman wrote: »

Cat 6 is a bit more hassle for connectors, sockets, etc. Cables are a bit more expenses, so some price difference is to be expected. Cat 5e is certainly easier to run.
Is it worth 550 plus VAT is hard to say based on what we know.

Is it worth 550 to you depends on what you expect - 5e is perfectly fine IMO for your normal home, given cable lengths etc. it supports 1GB, and it is very unlikely that any of you devices will support higher speeds anyways. I'd probably spend the 500 quid on proper wifi mesh units on top of the wired connections. And make sure you get at least 2 cable upstairs and into the attic (specifically to supply access points)

Is the attic a good place for an access point?

Cuddlesworth

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Is the attic a good place for an access point?

No but you can pull the cable through into the ceiling of the landing mounting a AP to it, which would usually give good coverage in the upstairs of your typical 3-4 bed(circa 100sm) house.

riclad

Usually the router is in the front room ,or hallway downstairs .
so it would be easy to run 2 ethernet cables for to pc or laptop or a games console downstairs
most routers have only 4 ethernet ports, so you,ll only be able to run
4 ethernet cables.
the wifi from the router is good enough for the rooms downstairs,
for games like fortnite or call of duty on a pc , console using ethernet is usually faster and more reliable.
if you want fast internet in every room then run ethernet cables
upstairs .

Yellow_Fern

Regarding the OPs question, I have seen situations where Cat6 was promised but Cat5e was installed and this would be a very ordinary development, not luxury.

DaveyDave

My house has some wiring but it's not terminated.

The wiring is only in the living room, kitchen, hallway and master bedroom. The two bedrooms at the back of the house where WiFi doesn't reach don't have ethernet. Considering so many people have a home office these days it's silly to not do every room especially if they're not finishing the connection.

The first phase of the estate has TV and data points in the spare rooms whereas our second phase house doesn't.

I lived an apartment down the road from the house 10 years ago that had ethernet and speakers in all rooms, it was built in the late 2000s.

People saying it's not worth it or pointless to wire a house haven't got a clue what they're talking about. If you have kids they have laptops, computers, smart TVs and games consoles. If you don't you likely have a TV, computer, sky box or some sort of home office. There's loads of reasons to have wired internet around the house even if you just have a few devices, as long as it's done right of course.

awec

They'll very rarely finish the connection with faceplates cause if they do that then they're on the hook for testing it etc.