When will it all end?

Ginger n Lemon · 23-02-2021 11:50AM

aido79 wrote: »

How many deaths will there be if we exit level 5 before then? Would you agree that the low level of deaths would be due to the country being in level 5 lockdown are do you think the deaths would not change much at all if we weren't in level 5 lockdown?

You havent answered my question.

Chomper. · 23-02-2021 11:50AM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

This is the bit that made me go wow.

"No vaccine can ever be 100% effective”, telling MPs: “So, as the modelling released by Sage today shows, we cannot escape the fact that lifting lockdown will result in more cases, more hospitalisations and sadly more deaths.

....

"There is therefore no credible route to a zero Covid Britain, or indeed, a zero Covid world and we cannot persist indefinitely with restrictions that debilitate our economy, our physical and mental wellbeing and the life chances of our children."

Finally an acknowledgement that people die and zero covid19 is bollox. In 4 months in the UK, the covid19 pro lockdown WFH and COVID19 payment crowd will be on the way out.

We I was growing up the priest who went to the leper colony in Sicily was a hero. In our current reality, people who stay inside, don't help neighbours or visit their elderly parents are heroes. The sooner we leave that behind the better.

Yesterday was a big news day

The acknowledgement that life goes on and some people will die of covid

UK to end restrictions in 4 months

Thank God we live next to the UK right now

SheepsClothing · 23-02-2021 11:51AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

240,000 + are already vaccinated and counting. Approx 100k set to be vaccinated per week, until increase to 250k.

Cases are falling. Deaths are non existent.

2 people died with positive PCR test in 2 days now. We are a country of 4,900,000. Given that 2020 had less deaths than 2019, are you actually not embarrassed to still be pushing this "all we can do is stay in lockdown for next few months" agenda? You gonna hit me with "we are all in this together" next? :pac:

And why do you think we had less deaths than 2019 and a country like Sweden had their most excess deaths in 100 years? Might it have something to do with the restrictions maybe!!???

I've always been reticent to say somebody doesn't care about people dying, but from your posts, I think you might be the exception.

ujjjjjjjjj · 23-02-2021 11:53AM

People will be dieing from Covid and ending up in hospital for many years to come probably indefinitely. Just like the flu....and no I am not saying Covid is the flu so please save yourself the hassle of that reply.

What Boris and the UK government have done is grow up and understand this fact and accept we ain't doing a zero covid because it is totally impractical.

The statements yesterday made in the UK made it clear that as long as Covid deaths and hospitalisations stay within the bounds of what is accepted as okay for flu and pneumonia etc etc we just get on with life. The reality is the most vulnerable people to flu and various respiratory viruses are also the most prone to Covid so it will be the same cohort getting hit every winter. In time I suspect Covid will just join the seasonal respiratory disease mix and the death toll each winter probably will stay within historic boundaries. We may have an extra jab to run alongside the seasonal flu jab.

Forget what has gone on as we can't change that, the test now for the Irish government is to sideline the lockdown agenda in Ireland and sideline the McDonkey's and NPHET, lamp into a revised vaccination strategy which prioritises first doses to as many people as quickly as possible. Forget the AZ vaccine bias and use it for everyone. 12 week gaps for the booster dose is fine.

They have to now get as close to the UK timeline as possible as it is untenable to have the North going on holliers to Greece from June on with pubs open and no legal restrictions with Holohan still ruling the roost down here.

They have about 100-120 days now to get this sorted and must also make the mindset jump and tell people Covid ain't going anywhere but we will get it down to a very modest level in terms of hospitalizations and deaths.

In short time to grow a pair and grow up.

Chomper. · 23-02-2021 11:56AM

Of course the Tories are not doing all this for the benefit of the working class

They want people back working and voting Tory, making money for the rich

At this point in time I'll take all that over what we have here

ujjjjjjjjj · 23-02-2021 11:58AM

If Mehole and Verruca had half a brain they would be straight onto Boris to see can we get a couple of million AZ doses so we can catch up with the UK rapid.

Why because the UK won't want Ireland (and the shared border) to be way behind on vaccinations as they know it will be mixing two populations with differing levels of vaccine immunity.

Forget the past and the optics and just do what is best for the Irish people. If the EU take the hump so what.......

I think the UK would bite on this....

stefanovich · 23-02-2021 11:59AM

Chomper. wrote: »

Of course try Tories are not doing all this for the benefit of the working class

They want people back working and voting Tory,doing money for the rich

At this point in time I'll take all that over what we have here

We certainly don't want people working. :pac:

hynesie08 · 23-02-2021 12:00PM

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

If Mehole and Verruca had half a brain they would be straight onto Boris to see can we get a couple of million AZ doses so we can catch up with the UK rapid.

Why because the UK won't want Ireland (and the shared border) to be way behind on vaccinations as they know it will be mixing two populations with differing levels of vaccine immunity.

Forget the past and the optics and just do what is best for the Irish people. If the EU take the hump so what.......

I think the UK would bite on this....

If the UK had a few million doses, do you not think they might want to y'know........ Prioritise their citizens?

iagreebut · 23-02-2021 12:02PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

So if no one or 1 person a day dies with covid for the next 4 weeks you would expect us to be in level 5 to May because our vaccine efforts arent up to scratch?

We should remain forever vigilant, and when this covid thing is over, we need to keep our distance and stay safe.
It's imperative for the vunerable, zero tolerance for enjoyment, festivals and events, do not at any junction underestimate the danger's of mixing with family, friend's and work colleagues.

When you're allowed to travel country in future you should have to book your ticket to go from Kerry to Limerick,a nominal fee of maybe 80 Euro should be sufficient.
And some sort of passport for different colour zone's, so depending on your risk management and whether you're high low medium , there should be a fee too for these passports and they should be chipped and connected to your car, so if you cross the line and have the wrong passport your car will be imobilised and you'll be charged a tax to get it mobilised.

There's a killing to be made now, and the senior civil servants should be able to give themselves good bonuses, and they deserve it.

I think they're doing a great job keeping us all safe from each other.

stefanovich · 23-02-2021 12:04PM

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

If Mehole and Verruca had half a brain they would be straight onto Boris to see can we get a couple of million AZ doses so we can catch up with the UK rapid.

Why because the UK won't want Ireland (and the shared border) to be way behind on vaccinations as they know it will be mixing two populations with differing levels of vaccine immunity.

Forget the past and the optics and just do what is best for the Irish people. If the EU take the hump so what.......

I think the UK would bite on this....

I think some would rather get sick then give the UK an ounce of credit for anything. We must remember that Brexit was supposed to be a pleasurable but masochistic experience where we watch the UK suffer.

Too bad this pandemic came along and showed us what real economic damage looks like. Too bad they've vaccinated 1/4 of their adult population. We need to focus on the negatives.

stefanovich · 23-02-2021 12:05PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

If the UK had a few million doses, do you not think they might want to y'know........ Prioritise their citizens?

They've got way more than they need ordered and are donating a tonne to poor countries.

aido79 · 23-02-2021 12:06PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You havent answered my question.

You're basically wondering if we can exit level 5 before enough people are vaccinated?
I don't think we can do it safely without enough vulnerable people vaccinated.
Even Boris Johnson's plan is a best case scenario and not set in stone. If they don't have enough people vaccinated by June or some of the new strains are vaccine resistant his plan to open up will change.
There is no reason why Ireland shouldn't follow the UK's example of opening up IF it is successful and we have enough people vaccinated.

Ginger n Lemon · 23-02-2021 12:06PM

SheepsClothing wrote: »

And why do you think we had less deaths than 2019 and a country like Sweden had their most excess deaths in 100 years? Might it have something to do with the restrictions maybe!!???

I've always been reticent to say somebody doesn't care about people dying, but from your posts, I think you might be the exception.

Sweden had more deaths per million of population in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 than 2020.

As to that last part in bold - please stop this save the granny rhetoric, it was noble and hero like back in April 2020, but now its just pathetic.

hynesie08 · 23-02-2021 12:06PM

stefanovich wrote: »

They've got way more than they need ordered and are donating a tonne to poor countries.

When?

Ginger n Lemon · 23-02-2021 12:08PM

aido79 wrote: »

You're basically wondering if we can exit level 5 before enough people are vaccinated?
I don't think we can do it safely without enough vulnerable people vaccinated.
Even Boris Johnson's plan is a best case scenario and not set in stone. If they don't have enough people vaccinated by June or some of the new strains are vaccine resistant his plan to open up will change.
There is no reason why Ireland shouldn't follow the UK's example of opening up IF it is successful and we have enough people vaccinated.

Nope. Thats not my question at all.

My question is, if we have no one or 1 person a day die with positive PCR test for the next 4 weeks straight - do you think we should stay in level 5 until May as is currently planned by our weak spineless govt? This question has nothing to do with vaccine efforts. I think that 240,000 + vaccinated in Ireland already is not exactly "lets stay in level 5 until the summer" material.

SheepsClothing · 23-02-2021 12:09PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Sweden had more deaths per million of population in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 than 2020.

As to that last part in bold - please stop this save the granny rhetoric, it was noble and hero like back in April 2020, but now its just pathetic.

I realise you don't care, it's ok. I'm just glad you're not in charge of anything.

landofthetree · 23-02-2021 12:09PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

If the UK had a few million doses, do you not think they might want to y'know........ Prioritise their citizens?

Every EU contract had the "best effort clause".

For all we know the J and J vaccine mightn't arrive in the numbers we are being told.

The UK could have spare vaccines by June.

hynesie08 · 23-02-2021 12:11PM

landofthetree wrote: »

Every EU contract had the "best effort clause".

For all we know the J and J vaccine mightn't arrive in the numbers we are being told.

The UK could have spare vaccines by June.

If their expecting to have one jab in every person by the end of July, how will they have extra in June?

johnire · 23-02-2021 12:11PM

We're not a poor country.

stefanovich wrote: »

They've got way more than they need ordered and are donating a tonne to poor countries.

SheepsClothing · 23-02-2021 12:12PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Nope. Thats not my question at all.

My question is, if we have no one or 1 person a day die with positive PCR test for the next 4 weeks straight - do you think we should stay in level 5 until May as is currently planned by our weak spineless govt? This question has nothing to do with vaccine efforts. I think that 240,000 + vaccinated in Ireland already is not exactly "lets stay in level 5 until the summer" material.

We have a seven day average of 27 deaths (I know you don't care) per day. The number of deaths reported on any one day is irrelevant when it comes to policy making. You throwing out completely unrealistic hypotheticals isn't going to change that.

ujjjjjjjjj · 23-02-2021 12:16PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

If the UK had a few million doses, do you not think they might want to y'know........ Prioritise their citizens?

Yes of course but I guarantee it won't fall on deaf ears......

Makes sense and has the bonus of some political point scoring too for the UK as it makes the EU roleout look bad. May not happen but no harm checking it out....

The EU hasn't been too bothered about Germans and Hungarians doing solo runs outside the EU procurement loops. They will get over it and if the UK offered us some vaccines it would be daft to turn it down....

The single aim now for the Irish government needs to be to try and get to a point where we can mirror the UK exit plan - forget that it's the UK and I get most people have now had 5 years of UK bashing and Brexit stuff and yes it will make people ill to talk to Boris....but so what if it gets us open faster it's job done.

In a couple of years no one will remember where we got the vaccines from.....or care....

Frilly Knickers · 23-02-2021 12:16PM

iagreebut wrote: »

We should remain forever vigilant, and when this covid thing is over, we need to keep our distance and stay safe.
It's imperative for the vunerable, zero tolerance for enjoyment, festivals and events, do not at any junction underestimate the danger's of mixing with family, friend's and work colleagues.

When you're allowed to travel country in future you should have to book your ticket to go from Kerry to Limerick,a nominal fee of maybe 80 Euro should be sufficient.
And some sort of passport for different colour zone's, so depending on your risk management and whether you're high low medium , there should be a fee too for these passports and they should be chipped and connected to your car, so if you cross the line and have the wrong passport your car will be imobilised and you'll be charged a tax to get it mobilised.

There's a killing to be made now, and the senior civil servants should be able to give themselves good bonuses, and they deserve it.

I think they're doing a great job keeping us all safe from each other.

Bravo! About time someone said it.

ujjjjjjjjj · 23-02-2021 12:18PM

https://www.newstalk.com/news/time-for-taoiseach-to-open-talks-on-buying-vaccine-from-the-uk-dr-gabriel-scally-1154619

The deckchairs are being arranged.......

Ginger n Lemon · 23-02-2021 12:20PM

SheepsClothing wrote: »

We have a seven day average of 27 deaths (I know you don't care) per day. The number of deaths reported on any one day is irrelevant when it comes to policy making. You throwing out completely unrealistic hypotheticals isn't going to change that.

Our seven day average is much higher than 27 deaths as, you know, covid isnt the only "cause" of death. Cause is a strong word lol.

Reality is less people died in Ireland in 2020 than in 2019. Despite all those THOUSANDS of daily deaths from March, April 2020.

You've been spooked. It will take many months, maybe years to reverse the damage but trust me this is a very mild illness, no need to go into "people are dying" hysteria. People have been dying well before covid-19.

These are just facts. I am very sorry covid isnt this killer virus that newspapers make it out to be, and no Brazil variant does not have 10% mortality. :rolleyes:

iagreebut · 23-02-2021 12:22PM

SheepsClothing wrote: »

I love that all the patriots, who care so much about the economy and Irish business, are all planning to spend their disposable income abroad this summer. Fitting.

Yes but as long as there's no variant coming from the mainland to the Arran Islands and many other islands along the coastline in Ireland, and it should be viable to head from Doolin Co Clare, to the Arran Islands.

And it should be zoned out too,as should it be allowed for a few families at a time to be allowed on the ferries, for social distancing and the well being for all, and don't forget that there's people who need a cut out of this.
Since they're doing a great job protecting us all.

There's hundreds of Islands around the country that could be enhanced for visitors, the Saltees off Wexford for example, mutton island off West Clare there's hundreds of Islands, all the islands on the lake's of the Shannon too.

There's Islands all over the country, the Shannon estuary has Islands..

Poor man's Kilkee in Limerick should be noted too.
It's warm during the summer time, have any of ye heard of poor man's Kilkee it's just on the Shannon there in the middle of Limerick city, you can lie out in the sunshine get a beautiful tan and you have hotels nearby...

There's a lot we can do in our own country, but remember stay safe and keep your distance..

hynesie08 · 23-02-2021 12:24PM

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Yes of course but I guarantee it won't fall on deaf ears......

Makes sense and has the bonus of some political point scoring too for the UK as it makes the EU roleout look bad. May not happen but no harm checking it out....

The EU hasn't been too bothered about Germans and Hungarians doing solo runs outside the EU procurement loops. They will get over it and if the UK offered us some vaccines it would be daft to turn it down....

The single aim now for the Irish government needs to be to try and get to a point where we can mirror the UK exit plan - forget that it's the UK and I get most people have now had 5 years of UK bashing and Brexit stuff and yes it will make people ill to talk to Boris....but so what if it gets us open faster it's job done.

In a couple of years no one will remember where we got the vaccines from.....or care....

Yes, but when will they have excess? What's the point in paying over the odds for 2 million doses if we're not getting them till September when we'll have achieved majority vaccination?

ujjjjjjjjj · 23-02-2021 12:29PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Our seven day average is much higher than 27 deaths as, you know, covid isnt the only "cause" of death. Cause is a strong word lol.

Reality is less people died in Ireland in 2020 than in 2019. Despite all those THOUSANDS of daily deaths from March, April 2020.

You've been spooked. It will take many months, maybe years to reverse the damage but trust me this is a very mild illness, no need to go into "people are dying" hysteria. People have been dying well before covid-19.

These are just facts. I am very sorry covid isnt this killer virus that newspapers make it out to be, and no Brazil variant does not have 10% mortality. :rolleyes:

Entirely agree re the spooked bit.....I don't blame people as it has been relentless doom and gloom for over a year now and we are assaulted on all sides.

Part of the healing process now is perspective, the UK statement yesterday really has buoyed people because for the first time they have said something that puts where we will be with Covid in perspective.....it is about accepting and not trying to get to some fantasy land place where Covid just goes away and leaves us alone.

Will old people still be dieing of respiratory disease five years from now, yes, will some be flu, some covid......yes. Will the average life expectancy drop - would be shocked if it did, therefore no change.

In time it will just be a mild endemic virus just like the current corona viruses in the human population that cause little more than a common cold today. (but they can still be fatal to the very frail and weak......)

ujjjjjjjjj · 23-02-2021 12:30PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

Yes, but when will they have excess? What's the point in paying over the odds for 2 million doses if we're not getting them till September when we'll have achieved majority vaccination?

Okay but just ask......if it makes no sense as we would have got the vaccines through the EU in the same time grand leave it be.....

aido79 · 23-02-2021 12:42PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Nope. Thats not my question at all.

My question is, if we have no one or 1 person a day die with positive PCR test for the next 4 weeks straight - do you think we should stay in level 5 until May as is currently planned by our weak spineless govt? This question has nothing to do with vaccine efforts. I think that 240,000 + vaccinated in Ireland already is not exactly "lets stay in level 5 until the summer" material.

Deaths are only part of the issue. The number of people being admitted to hospital is actually a bigger problem than the number of deaths because it increases the chance of someone dying from a non covid related illness due to a lack of hospital capacity.

If the number of people being admitted to hospital and the R number drop to a level where the predicted hospital admissions can be dealt with by the health service then there would be no reason to be in level 5.

Calling the government weak and spineless just shows your lack of understanding, even after a year of this, of how much pressure the health service can be put under when hospital admissions rise.

iagreebut · 23-02-2021 12:42PM

I wouldn't worry about it,we have senior professionals in the HSE who are well capable of planning nation wide vaccination programs.
And I think we should let them get on with their jobs, and they should be paid more after all this, I think it's unfair of people saying that they're not working hard enough.

And the 5k should be brought down to 2k for the safety of the vunerable.
I seen two people cycling the other day, and they looked happy, how could anyone be happy during a pandemic is beyond me.
And families with kids running around the place,no masks or anything on and an elderly couple down wind..I had a good mind to call the guards and take their number plate.

People we need to get into a more hard-line lockdown,I don't think we've being safe enough.

And if we take a tenner off covid payment, and put it to better use that would be great I'm all for that.

When will it all end?

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