Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2020/21- Mod Notes #1

y0ssar1an22 · 22-02-2021 04:53PM

DM_7 wrote: »

Was it wrong or just risky/taking your medicine while taking some time to make a choice on where to buy?

Selling Lukaku, who wanted out, was also part of the pathway to Bruno signing.

United were moving out a player that wanted out for a good fee and getting the same player off the wage bill in a Europa League season. It would be a mistake to commit huge money for a player they did not really think wanted to be at United (Lukaku or a replacement that needed a lot of convincing).

Yes it hurt the team short term to be down a player for 5 months. It allowed a lot of space for a player like Rashford to step up, room for a Greenwood to play in Europa league and ultimately/belatedly make a choice that it was a Bruno that they needed to get into the team as the priority.

The Ighalo need showed they were aware the team was short at CF well before Cavani was brought in but as a CF option rather than the priority (Bruno).

i thought he wanted out because ole sidelined him for martial?
if ole had not of done that, lukaku would not have wanted out (maybe, who knows in all honesty?).

wonder how much they could of gotten for marital back then

beno619 · 22-02-2021 05:05PM

Martial has been awful this season but trying to pin our putrid attack on one player seems a little silly.

We have been toothless in games where Cavani started, he barely got a kick of the ball against West Brom for example.

The Big Easy · 22-02-2021 05:05PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Lukaku wanted out because he was bluntly told he'd be second fiddle to Rashford as the main striker. A decision that was nearly immediately rowed back upon weeks after Lukaku left.

Don't get me wrong, the manner in which he left was unprofessional at times. But the reason he wanted to leave was because the manager shoved him towards the door.

Had that situation been handled better, we would be in a stronger position right now. Yes, there's some corelation between Lukaku leaving and us needing to move for Bruno.

Had the situation been handled better, we could have had Lukaku, Rashford and Bruno all working together, rather than a situation now where our striker position has developed into yet another massive hole in the squad.

Who would prefer to have Lukaku over Cavani? I know I wouldn't.

The Big Easy · 22-02-2021 05:10PM

PARlance wrote: »

You don't need an in-depth article to see that he doesn't get into the positions a good centre forward should be getting into. We could talk at length about his finishing or chances converted yada yada, he doesn't do what a CF should do and that's the height of it. The MOTD lads nailed it. They showed a "better" clip of him standing out on the left touchline with four other players beside him.

Ole pinned his colours to the mast when Lukaku went, he backed Rashford and Martial to the hilt and it has cost us. There have been times when Rashford could do nothing to be subbed, but in general, it's not a problem. Rashford might frustrate at times, but he delivers. Ole continues to accommodate and try to keep Martial happy, that is a problem.

I'm still mad about the teams he put out against Liverpool and Sheffield United, or to be more precise, the fact that he started Martial in these games. I think Ole / Martial cost us 5 points in those games. I also think we'd have beaten Arsenal if he hadn't accommodated Pogba in the front three, and then compounded that by bringing Martial on the left side at the expense of Rashford on the right.

There was no way we were winning the league but I do blame that run of games for letting City open up a huge gap and for not leaving us in a position that 2nd place was within sight and a top 4 almost secured at this stage.

I'm an Ole fan but he has his blind spots and they have been costly. I would like to be a Martial fan but he's the type of player that needs constant love from a manager, and United should be too big of a club for that carry on. I would gladly watch him being a star out in Italy or France.

Agree with the overall sentiment of this if not all the details.

Ole wanted to buy Haaland, I don't think there's any doubt about that. He had given Martial a chance as the number 9 and was very quickly ready to abandon that (rightly imo) and get Haaland in.

After missing out on Haaland, he signed an excellent stopgap in Cavani. He would still love to have Haaland, don't think we can doubt that, getting him is another thing.

Ole didn't buy Martial or Lukaku and thought out of the two martial would be the one that would suit how he wanted to play. I agree that he is persisting with him too long and Greenwood should be up top in Cavani's absence.

y0ssar1an22 · 22-02-2021 05:11PM

beno619 wrote: »

Martial has been awful this season but trying to pin our putrid attack on one player seems a little silly.

We have been toothless in games where Cavani started, he barely got a kick of the ball against West Brom for example.

still the most goal sin the PL this season. i know southampton is an outlier there.

10th for goals conceded, same as wolves and fulham.

the defence is a huge problem. i'd still like to see martial sold asap

beno619 · 22-02-2021 05:12PM

The Big Easy wrote: »

Who would prefer to have Lukaku over Cavani? I know I wouldn't.

I'd have Lukaku for the next 7+ years over 2/3 seasons of Cavani (who I also love).

Lukaku was just outside the top bracket of centre forwards when he signed and may yet move to the next level.

beno619 · 22-02-2021 05:15PM

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

still the most goal sin the PL this season. i know southampton is an outlier there.

10th for goals conceded, same as wolves and fulham.

the defence is a huge problem. i'd still like to see martial sold asap

Both are a problem. I think personnel is a problem but the organization and coaching is a bigger one.

Lord TSC · 22-02-2021 05:20PM

The Big Easy wrote: »

Who would prefer to have Lukaku over Cavani? I know I wouldn't.

I'd have had Lukaku over Martial. Cavani would have been perfect back up to Lukaku.

Plus, as Beno said, Lukaku has age massively on his side in that choice too.

DM_7 · 22-02-2021 05:29PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Lukaku wanted out because he was bluntly told he'd be second fiddle to Rashford as the main striker. A decision that was nearly immediately rowed back upon weeks after Lukaku left.

Don't get me wrong, the manner in which he left was unprofessional at times. But the reason he wanted to leave was because the manager shoved him towards the door.

Had that situation been handled better, we would be in a stronger position right now. Yes, there's some corelation between Lukaku leaving and us needing to move for Bruno.

Had the situation been handled better, we could have had Lukaku, Rashford and Bruno all working together, rather than a situation now where our striker position has developed into yet another massive hole in the squad.

Pushed towards the door suggests he was not playing even though he was. I am sure Lukaku says he told Ole he wanted out as early as March.

Remember how wrecked Lukaku was that December? He never got rest after the World Cup and was way off in terms of fitness. He played in the vast majority of games after getting dropped for Ole's first two games. He had to be taken out of the starting side, but continued to feature in the match day side and he got back into it as a regular starter in February.

I have no dislike for Lukaku wanting to go but if he was already looking to move after a bit of a challenge then I am fine he left.

After the way the season ended and as he was getting approached to sign for another club he was right to get out. We saw a new player when he went to Inter Milan after he out the effort in to get up to speed after he got the move he wanted. Well done to him.

Edit: Just to say Fred barely featured under Ole to start with but he is still at United and a very important player so it shows an action can cause a response which may not be to leave.

Comic Book Guy · 22-02-2021 05:31PM

The Big Easy wrote: »

Who would prefer to have Lukaku over Cavani? I know I wouldn't.

Very small sample size but I've watched the last few Inter games and been hugely impressed by Lukaku. Arguably one of the most in form strikers in Europe right now.

22-02-2021 05:33PM

The only problem with selling Lukaku is that there was no replacement signed. 70 odd million received but no, stick with Martial backed up by Rashford.

Granted there's no standout striker that immediately comes to mind and they did try to get Haaland but there should have been someone in the 22-25 age range brought in as a replacement as a priority.

Missing out on Haaland is a major sliding doors moment all things considered.

Headshot · 22-02-2021 05:34PM

Lukaku has become one of the best strikers in the world at Inter. He's remarkable how much he has improved from his awful first touch to actually holding up the ball.
Conte has done a wonderful job with him.

I'd take him back in a heart beat at utd but under a different manager

El Gato De Negocios · 22-02-2021 05:48PM

Headshot wrote: »

Lukaku has become one of the best strikers in the world at Inter. He's remarkable how much he has improved from his awful first touch to actually holding up the ball.
Conte has done a wonderful job with him.

I'd take him back in a heart beat at utd but under a different manager

That's the thing with Rom, he pretty much guarantees goals, got them at West brom and Everton, got them for us despite being shunted around the front line alot during his time there. Granted his touch was cat by times but who cares when he gets goals? He is another player that had a dose of the Fellainis about him, the weaknesses he had were magnified and jumped on by his critics.

nullzero · 22-02-2021 05:49PM

Headshot wrote: »

Lukaku has become one of the best strikers in the world at Inter. He's remarkable how much he has improved from his awful first touch to actually holding up the ball.
Conte has done a wonderful job with him.

I'd take him back in a heart beat at utd but under a different manager

Serie A is also an absolute shadow of what is used to be.

Lukaku played at more clubs than United in England. Me thinks Serie A may just be an easier place to look good these days.

22-02-2021 05:54PM

nullzero wrote: »

Serie A is also an absolute shadow of what is used to be.

Lukaku played at more clubs than United in England. Me thinks Serie A may just be an easier place to look good these days.

Nah sure 39 year old Ibrahimovic getting 14 goals in 13 league games this season isn't a red flag there at all...

yourdeadwright · 22-02-2021 05:57PM

Didn't Lakaku said he had some kind of bloating issue from a certain food that United medical team never picked upon
I wonder was that true he's been fantastic for Inter , I can see him going to City or even Spurs (if Kane moves on )
Hell even Liverpool good do with him at the moment ,

DM_7 · 22-02-2021 06:02PM

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

That's the thing with Rom, he pretty much guarantees goals, got them at West brom and Everton, got them for us despite being shunted around the front line alot during his time there. Granted his touch was cat by times but who cares when he gets goals? He is another player that had a dose of the Fellainis about him, the weaknesses he had were magnified and jumped on by his critics.

Lukaku should be still at United if it was a well functioning club in more recent times.

It it was he would never have turned into the very unhappy and lets be honest unfit player he became.

United have a host of former players doing well elsewhere. Lukaku and Memphis are the standouts who could easily be in the front line now with Rashford for example. Could argue Zaha would have offered a lot since United moved him on in a bit of a hurry.

I am no great believer in Ole as an ultimate winner but I hope changes at United from senior team to lower levels in recent times make it less likely to see a scenario where players are not given a fair chance to do well or develop at the club.

The Big Easy · 22-02-2021 06:04PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Didn't Lakaku said he had some kind of bloating issue from a certain food that United medical team never picked upon
I wonder was that true he's been fantastic for Inter , I can see him going to City or even Spurs (if Kane moves on )
Hell even Liverpool good do with him at the moment ,

You don't honestly believe that Pep would ever sign Lukaku, the man who wasn't sure about Aguero's all round play!

The Big Easy · 22-02-2021 06:08PM

DM_7 wrote: »

Lukaku should be still at United if it was a well functioning club in more recent times.

It it was he would never have turned into the very unhappy and lets be honest unfit player he became.

United have a host of former players doing well elsewhere. Lukaku and Memphis are the standouts who could easily be in the front line now with Rashford for example. Could argue Zaha would have offered a lot since United moved him on in a bit of a hurry.

I am no great believer in Ole as an ultimate winner but I hope changes at United from senior team to lower levels in recent times make it less likely to see a scenario where players are not given a fair chance to do well or develop at the club.

You just don't know when or where players are going to reach their full potential. Zaha I agree wasn't given a fair shot whatsoever and would have been a mainstay in the United team for the last three or four seasons.

Some players just can't perform under extreme scrutiny and pressure, hardly that surprising really. That's the difficulty when United buy players for big fees before they're ready, the pressure is on immediately and if they don't have the right attitude or character it can break them.

beno619 · 22-02-2021 06:08PM

DM_7 wrote: »

Edit: Just to say Fred barely featured under Ole to start with but he is still at United and a very important player so it shows an action can cause a response which may not be to leave.

Ole publicly stated Rashford was his number one over Lukaku.

If Lukaku believes he's a top level striker it was fair to feel slighted by his manager considering every man and his dog knew Rashford wasn't/isn't a natural centre forward.

He wasn't simply dropped.

nullzero · 22-02-2021 06:17PM

DM_7 wrote: »

Lukaku should be still at United if it was a well functioning club in more recent times.

It it was he would never have turned into the very unhappy and lets be honest unfit player he became.

United have a host of former players doing well elsewhere. Lukaku and Memphis are the standouts who could easily be in the front line now with Rashford for example. Could argue Zaha would have offered a lot since United moved him on in a bit of a hurry.

I am no great believer in Ole as an ultimate winner but I hope changes at United from senior team to lower levels in recent times make it less likely to see a scenario where players are not given a fair chance to do well or develop at the club.

Lukaku and Memphis are now playing in leagues that are substantially less demanding than the Premier league. It's a bit of an apple's and oranges situation in reality.

dave_o_brien · 22-02-2021 06:33PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Hell even Liverpool good do with him at the moment ,

Not sure he'd thrive at centre-half...

beno619 · 22-02-2021 06:35PM

Lukaku was a success in the premier league at lesser clubs with inferior service to what you would expect at United.

His second season at United being a blight on his record says more about the state of our club than Lukaku.

DM_7 · 22-02-2021 06:46PM

beno619 wrote: »

Ole publicly stated Rashford was his number one over Lukaku.

If Lukaku believes he's a top level striker it was fair to feel slighted by his manager considering every man and his dog knew Rashford wasn't/isn't a natural centre forward.

He wasn't simply dropped.

I am sure we have had this conversation before

I just don't think Ole or Lukaku were wrong here.

I am fine with Lukaku wanting to go. I have no issue with Ole arriving at United, as a caretaker, with no particular reason to be loyal to Lukaku and making a snap decision that he was not the player to utilise at that stage (he was way off in fitness at that time).

He was dropped initially and he was challenged. With the condition he was in at the time Ole arrived he had to be.

He started 17 games for Jose that season and 15 for Ole. In the end he played a lot for Ole that season overall as a starter and off the bench also.

I think his departure was most specifically linked to his condition and unhappiness at United, that is why he made his mind up early that he wanted out. I don't think he did anything under Ole that would make Ole think he needed to keep Lukaku at all costs when Lukaku was also looking to leave.

beno619 · 22-02-2021 07:03PM

DM_7 wrote: »

I am sure we have had this conversation before

We probably have ! lets agree to disagree, forget and do this all again in 6 months time. :pac:

S.M.B. · 22-02-2021 08:01PM

PARlance wrote: »

I doubt he was promised anything except a fair crack at no.1. There's nothing he has done in his career to suggest he was just looking for a nice contract, I think that's fairly disingenuous. I think he had to fight for a 2nd year at SU and I'm sure he could have picked up a somewhat decent wage at Chelsea if those rumours were true.

Given DDG's form over recent years and this year, I can see how he feels he should be getting more chances. He mightn't be the answer but I find it refreshing to hear rumours of a United player not happy to sit back and take the payday.

My turn to be disingenuous maybe, but I don't think DDG would be banging any doors down to get regular football elsewhere if he ended up no.2 at United.

I wasn't suggesting he was solely looking for a nice contract. He did however sign a long term contract last summer and as you have said, we can probably assume he wasn't guaranteed first team football at the time. To all of a sudden turn around ~6 months later and expect to leave the club because he is not our first choice number one would be a big u-turn although I also understand how it could be seen as commendable.

Lord TSC · 22-02-2021 08:15PM

I'd be waiting for better journalists to pick up any Henderson frustrations before taking them seriously tbh. M.E.N. is pure fantasy tier most of the time.

The_Kew_Tour · 22-02-2021 08:16PM

I'm not sure Lukaku had actually improved at Inter.

I think he is showing his ability at Inter which he could not at United for various reasons.

If you watched Belgium at previous Euros or last World Cup you see a terrific all round player.

He was more held back at United and comes as no surprise his performance at a club that gives him freedom.

PARlance · 22-02-2021 08:36PM

The Big Easy wrote: »

Agree with the overall sentiment of this if not all the details.

Ole wanted to buy Haaland, I don't think there's any doubt about that. He had given Martial a chance as the number 9 and was very quickly ready to abandon that (rightly imo) and get Haaland in.

After missing out on Haaland, he signed an excellent stopgap in Cavani. He would still love to have Haaland, don't think we can doubt that, getting him is another thing.

Ole didn't buy Martial or Lukaku and thought out of the two martial would be the one that would suit how he wanted to play. I agree that he is persisting with him too long and Greenwood should be up top in Cavani's absence.

I wouldn't agree with that take on it at all. Dortmund signed Haaland on 29 December 2019, we signed free agent Cavani 10 months later on deadline day, 6th October 2020.

If Cavani was brought in ahead of Martial, why did he only start 2 league games in the first half of the season. He wasn't signed for the first 4 league games which is indication enough that he wasn't intended to be our main striker, starting 2 of the remaining 15 games of the first half compounds that imo.

Cavani played himself into first choice and even at that, it took a long time for the penny to drop.

Agree re Haaland, if he was got, it would have been a demotion for Martial. But that would have been an exceptional signing in many ways.

Louis Friend · 22-02-2021 08:41PM

If we get Haaland, I’d be happy for the club to keep paying Martial his wages just to drive Haaland around and run errands for him.

Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2020/21- Mod Notes #1

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