What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

NeuralNetwork · 22-02-2021 01:19AM

The only reason I’m bringing it up is I think the Commission did hand Tory HQ and the Tabloids a rather juicy bit of sensationalist headline, however I think Irish Internet forums and Twitter are probably absorbing that more than anyone else.

It’s of little real world consequence, but it is feeding a rather self-loathing mentality here that can crop around absolutely any topic.

I get that we don’t trust the HSE, largely based on stuff like A&E experience, but this isn’t based on going to your local A&E on a Saturday night and to be fair to them, it does seem like they’re pulling out all (or at least most) of the stops.

I’ll reserve my judgement on performance until I see what’s happening in about late March.

The sense I get is we are likely going to be in a situation in many countries in the EU - under promising & over delivering as the vaccines aren’t proving as complex or problematic and it’s likely we will have all thrown a lot into the infrastructure to deliver them.

None of us have any experience of these kinds of programmes in the west, so I suspect we are mostly going to end up delivering much faster than the plans might indicate.

That has been the experience in the U.K. already. Things haven’t taken as long as they thought.

There’s also huge public support in Ireland and in the U.K. for vaccines and politically it’s not complex or controversial.

The government could do a lot more to improve commune & genuinely get a sense of positivity about the programme. A lot of us are really feeling down at this stage with just endless negatively. Light at the end of the tunnel is absolutely needed even for our own sanity.

Wolf359f · 22-02-2021 01:41AM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

The only reason I’m bringing it up is I think the Commission did hand Tory HQ and the Tabloids a rather juicy bit of sensationalist headline, however I think Irish Internet forums and Twitter are probably absorbing that more than anyone else.

It’s of little real world consequence, but it is feeding a rather self-loathing mentality here that can crop around absolutely any topic.

I get that we don’t trust the HSE, largely based on stuff like A&E experience, but this isn’t based on going to your local A&E on a Saturday night and to be fair to them, it does seem like they’re pulling out all (or at least most) of the stops.

I’ll reserve my judgement on performance until I see what’s happening in about late March.

The sense I get is we are likely going to be in a situation in many countries in the EU - under promising & over delivering as the vaccines aren’t proving as complex or problematic and it’s likely we will have all thrown a lot into the infrastructure to deliver them.

None of us have any experience of these kinds of programmes in the west, so I suspect we are mostly going to end up delivering much faster than the plans might indicate.

That has been the experience in the U.K. already. Things haven’t taken as long as they thought.

There’s also huge public support in Ireland and in the U.K. for vaccines and politically it’s not complex or controversial.

The government could do a lot more to improve commune & genuinely get a sense of positivity about the programme. A lot of us are really feeling down at this stage with just endless negatively. Light at the end of the tunnel is absolutely needed even for our own sanity.

They reached they target about 2 days earlier than promised, some EU countries are moving theirs forward by a week, it's all down to deliveries.
The UK seems the past week or so to be slowing down on daily doses.
I'm not sure what will happen in the next month or so when they need to start the second dose.

Bit cynical · 22-02-2021 02:10AM

Strazdas wrote: »

Much of the jingoistic chest thumping going on from the English tabloids is total nonsense and downright misleading. The Brits are merely a few weeks ahead of the EU in rollout but are spinning this to their gullible readers as if their programme is a success and the EU's one is a disaster. There's nothing wrong with the EU rollout at all - the member states have already vaccinated 26m people and the programme is rapidly accelerating with each passing day.

However the data suggests that although the EU started a couple of weeks after the UK, the gap has been widening with the EU currently about 5 weeks behind.

Looks like every two weeks, the EU falls a further week behind the UK and no sign of slowing down in the UK or speeding up in the EU.

Wolf359f · 22-02-2021 02:24AM

Bit cynical wrote: »

However the data suggests that although the EU started a couple of weeks after the UK, the gap has been widening with the EU currently about 5 weeks behind.

Looks like every two weeks, the EU falls a further week behind the UK and no sign of slowing down in the UK or speeding up in the EU.

The UK has been dropping over the last week, that's a sure sign of slowing down, no?

Bit cynical · 22-02-2021 02:35AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

The UK has been dropping over the last week, that's a sure sign of slowing down, no?

Well if we look at the weekly-averaged daily doses we do see the UK slightly below where they were two weeks ago but still ahead of where they were three weeks ago. It is not substantial decline and still way above the equivalent for the EU.

Wolf359f · 22-02-2021 02:56AM

Bit cynical wrote: »

Well if we look at the weekly-averaged daily doses we do see the UK slightly below where they were two weeks ago but still ahead of where they were three weeks ago. It is not substantial decline and still way above the equivalent for the EU.

I'm sorry, you stated the UK are seeing no signs of slowing down, now you say they are slightly below where they were 2 weeks ago (13% drop), so which is it?
The UK stats are not related to the EU, those charts are not 7 days averages of UK doses compared to the EU.

Bit cynical · 22-02-2021 03:28AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

I'm sorry, you stated the UK are seeing no signs of slowing down, now you say they are slightly below where they were 2 weeks ago (13% drop), so which is it?
The UK stats are not related to the EU, those charts are not 7 days averages of UK doses compared to the EU.

I would say that the most you could state is that the UK have plateaued in terms of the daily rate of vaccinations at a level considerably above that of the EU per capita. I don't think the recent drop is necessarily a sign of a longer-term slowdowns; we would need more time to determine that.

McGiver · 22-02-2021 08:07AM

NeuralNetwork wrote:

The AstraZeneca - European Commission public fight has also massively fed into that. I think the Commission badly mishandled it and have shaken public confidence badly, here at least, because of the way it was communicated and appeared.

Non-issue on the Continent. It was only spun in the UK, was weaponised and fed into Irish public discourse due to the same language and pressure (there is simply more British content than Irish). Populists successfully established the false narrative that "rollout is slow in Ireland" despite the fact that it's one of the fastest in the EU, and also in the world bar US, UK, Israel, UAE and Chile.

Nobody cares about this AZ nonsense in European press. They are all focusing on the rollout itself being progressed and the only issues are variants, including the English one.

Dyr · 22-02-2021 10:25AM

McGiver wrote: »

Nobody cares about this AZ nonsense in European press. .

LOL

brickster69 · 22-02-2021 10:45AM

But,but, but

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1363798720144408578

Charles Babbage · 22-02-2021 11:27AM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

The only reason I’m bringing it up is I think the Commission did hand Tory HQ and the Tabloids a rather juicy bit of sensationalist headline, however I think Irish Internet forums and Twitter are probably absorbing that more than anyone else.

It’s of little real world consequence, but it is feeding a rather self-loathing mentality here that can crop around absolutely any topic.

I get that we don’t trust the HSE, largely based on stuff like A&E experience, but this isn’t based on going to your local A&E on a Saturday night and to be fair to them, it does seem like they’re pulling out all (or at least most) of the stops.

I’ll reserve my judgement on performance until I see what’s happening in about late March.

Did the system not deliver 1.6m flu vaccines or a number of that order in two months or so before Christmas? One million Covid vaccines a month is a relatively feasible step up from that. The supply may become 1.5 million a month by June, but they'll bring everyone on board for a few weeks to get it done. Supply is the key, I think

HBC08 · 22-02-2021 11:32AM

Aegir wrote: »

What was the risk Sam?

You seem obsessed with this, but haven’t said what you believe the risk to be.

It comes across as just sour grapes.

Do you read a lot of red tops? Im guessing yes.

22-02-2021 11:39AM

"Non-issue on the Continent" LOL.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/02/21/european-healthcare-workers-are-refusing-astrazeneca-vaccine-over-efficacy-concerns/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/19/german-politicians-counter-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-scepticism-with-show-of-support

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-02-16/covid-why-are-italians-refusing-the-oxfordastrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccine

Not a red top in sight

A great opportunity for us to get more of the AZ vaccine for Ireland without even having to piss off the EU. "Lads, if ye aren't going to use them sure throw a few million of them over here" ... although I can just imagine the sheep here saying they won't take them either. FFS.

brickster69 · 22-02-2021 11:42AM

Deleted User wrote: »

"Non-issue on the Continent" LOL.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/02/21/european-healthcare-workers-are-refusing-astrazeneca-vaccine-over-efficacy-concerns/

You could not make it up. If it was not so serious people would find it hilarious.

stefanovich · 22-02-2021 11:53AM

brickster69 wrote: »

You could not make it up. If it was not so serious people would find it hilarious.

They're obviously very upset about Brexit.

brickster69 · 22-02-2021 11:59AM

stefanovich wrote: »

They're obviously very upset about Brexit.

Must be. So much so that they even put there own citizens lives at risk. They should be put on trial

22-02-2021 12:40PM

Astra Zeneca BETTER at the metric that really matters .... and you can buy 10 shots of those for the price of 1 Pfizer shot. And it's not completely new vaccine tech. And it can be stored for months in a fridge. And it doesn't need a special needle ....

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-linked-to-85-and-94-drop-in-coronavirus-hospital-admissions-in-scotland-study-shows-12225532

landofthetree · 22-02-2021 01:12PM

brickster69 wrote: »

But,but, but

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1363798720144408578

RTE too bitter to mention that the Oxford vaccine worked so well after the first dose.

Only reporting on the Pfizer vaccine.

brickster69 · 22-02-2021 01:16PM

Wait till England releases it's data.

brickster69 · 22-02-2021 01:36PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Germany has used just 87,000 of the 736,800 AstraZeneca doses received so far
Spain had used 35,000 doses out of 418,000

That is over 1 million people who could be well protected from Death.

Oh god, it is actually twice as bad. :eek:

https://twitter.com/dwallacewells/status/1363841436601491458

hynesie08 · 22-02-2021 01:38PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Oh god, it is actually twice as bad. :eek:

https://twitter.com/dwallacewells/status/1363841436601491458

Can we have them?

brickster69 · 22-02-2021 02:21PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

Can we have them?

Offer them a trade 30K Pfizer for 300K AZ. Looks like they will be needing them.

NeuralNetwork · 22-02-2021 02:55PM

You also have to remember there’s already huge vaccine hesitancy in France in particular, but also Germany, so this stuff could end up causing more of a problem from rollout than any logical issues.

Ireland doesn’t appear to have the same issues and here it’s been more a frustration relative lack of speed of supplies coming on stream.

MrMusician18 · 22-02-2021 03:17PM

The policy should definitely be a use it or lose it one, no country should be taking deliveries unless they can show that they will be close to running out before the next delivery.

astrofool · 22-02-2021 03:53PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Offer them a trade 30K Pfizer for 300K AZ. Looks like they will be needing them.

That is stupid, we are giving the most effective vaccines correctly to the most vulnerable elderly to the disease.

Countries not using vaccines is stupid, but ignoring differences in the efficacy of vaccines and not using them appropriately, is equally stupid.

fly_agaric · 22-02-2021 04:01PM

stefanovich wrote: »

They're obviously very upset about Brexit.

brickster69 wrote: »

Must be.

hmm yes. "Brexit" is connected to everything in this world.
We're all 6 degrees from Kevin Bacon Brexit!

Bit cynical · 22-02-2021 05:56PM

fly_agaric wrote: »

hmm yes. "Brexit" is connected to everything in this world.
We're all 6 degrees from Kevin Bacon Brexit!

I think however there's a fairly strong political link in the case of the AZ vaccine. Vaccinations in general were one of the areas that the UK were predicted to suffer heavily due to Brexit. The EU argued that their buying power would place them way ahead in terms of both price and volume and took over from several EU members that had banded together to purchase vaccines and other countries were strongly discouraged from doing their own private deals.

Now however the opposite has occurred and it is Brexit Britain that is racing ahead and the countries that set out to do their own deals initially are rightly angry.

Dyr · 22-02-2021 06:27PM

Bit cynical wrote: »

I think however there's a fairly strong political link in the case of the AZ vaccine. Vaccinations in general were one of the areas that the UK were predicted to suffer heavily due to Brexit. The EU argued that their buying power would place them way ahead in terms of both price and volume and took over from several EU members that had banded together to purchase vaccines and other countries were strongly discouraged from doing their own private deals.

Now however the opposite has occurred and it is Brexit Britain that is racing ahead and the countries that set out to do their own deals initially are rightly angry.

Almost as if supranational beauraucracies that lack direct accountability are not very good at moving fast and decisively in comparison to a nation state

Who'd have thought it given the sterling performance of outfits like the UN and the WHO

fly_agaric · 22-02-2021 06:29PM

Bit cynical wrote: »

I think however there's a fairly strong political link in the case of the AZ vaccine. Vaccinations in general were one of the areas that the UK were predicted to suffer heavily due to Brexit. The EU argued that their buying power would place them way ahead in terms of both price and volume and took over from several EU members that had banded together to purchase vaccines and other countries were strongly discouraged from doing their own private deals.

Now however the opposite has occurred and it is Brexit Britain that is racing ahead and the countries that set out to do their own deals initially are rightly angry.

Do you have some source for claims made by the EU in relation to the UK "suffering" with vaccination due to Brexit?
A poster on this thread had pointed out to me that the Guardian [I think] (i.e. left-wing "remainer" UK media which has a dog in the fight and no love for the Tories) had criticised the UK government for not taking part despite Brexit + suggested it was a mistake, but that has nothing at all to do with the EU and is a debate which is internal to the UK.

The reason EU countries were discouraged from going it alone was solidarity + trying to avoid Pharma MNCs inciting an auction between the member states + playing them off against each other. I'm not sure watching the states with the technology and resources vaccinating their entire populations well before even vulnerable groups in other EU countries get any vaccine would have a great outcome either. In another world Germany for example could be going very fast with vaccination, up there with the US/UK or better.

Brexit has nothing whatsoever to do with vaccine "choosiness" (which I think has been occurring in the UK too if media can be believed) and borderline anti-vaxx sentiment edit: (or lack of faith in the AZ vaccine) in Europe IMO. That was what I was replying to.

Brexit also has noting to do with dangerous aspersions cast by media or politicians in Europe on the AstraZenenca vaccine. If anything political is coming into play there it is some anger/bitterness with the company over the way it has carried on.

Pete_Cavan · 22-02-2021 07:12PM

Bit cynical wrote: »

I think however there's a fairly strong political link in the case of the AZ vaccine. Vaccinations in general were one of the areas that the UK were predicted to suffer heavily due to Brexit. The EU argued that their buying power would place them way ahead in terms of both price and volume and took over from several EU members that had banded together to purchase vaccines and other countries were strongly discouraged from doing their own private deals.

If a few of the big EU nations had bought as a group vaccines and left the remainder of the EU to scrap over whats left, the stats for overall EU vaccinations would likely be a lot worse than they are now. The select few would be racing ahead with plentiful supply while everyone else waits in hope. Would Ireland for example have received much supplies at this stage had we been on our own competing with every other nation? Probably not and we'd be paying through the nose for whatever we could get. For all the pıssing and moaning about the EU vaccine purchase, the alternative is almost certainly far worse.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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