Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

22-02-2021 12:14PM

ypres5 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/revealed-tds-in-line-for-pay-rise-to-push-their-wages-back-over-100000-40116383.html

good to see the lads in the dail are taking care of themselves regardless of the state of the economy they've really earned their little raise

Except that this is an automatic increase triggered by public service payscales.

They should freeze it or even cut it back, but they have not actively gone out to give themselves an increase

Boggles · 22-02-2021 12:15PM

The majority of constructions workers are working.

The rest will be back when it is deemed safe. They are all ready filtering back.

From the the 15th of Feb.

The top three sectors with the largest number of employees closing their Pandemic Unemployment Payment to return to work are Construction (2,167), Wholesale and Retail Trade (1,785), and Manufacturing (1,308).

We need to get over the fallacy that construction is closed, it isn't.

Repeating a falsehood over and over again will never make it true.

copeyhagen · 22-02-2021 12:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Except that this is an automatic increase triggered by public service payscales.

They should freeze it or even cut it back, but they have not actively gone out to give themselves an increase

:rolleyes: imagine this in the states, AOC would have declined it before it was even announced and urged all to do similar.

here, we have a pciture of McGrath with a big smile on his head

Geuze · 22-02-2021 12:20PM

ypres5 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/revealed-tds-in-line-for-pay-rise-to-push-their-wages-back-over-100000-40116383.html

good to see the lads in the dail are taking care of themselves regardless of the state of the economy they've really earned their little raise

AFAIK, that article is completely false.

TDs do not control their own pay.

They get the same pay change as any public servant.

All public servants got pay restoration over the last few years, including TDs.

Under the planned pay deal for 2021-2022, all public servants will get a 1% pay rise each year.

22-02-2021 12:25PM

copeyhagen wrote: »

:rolleyes: imagine this in the states, AOC would have declined it before it was even announced and urged all to do similar.

here, we have a pciture of McGrath with a big smile on his head

Because that wasn't a stock photo. FFS. Get angry at real issues, not invented ones by lazy editorial staff - "What will we run today? We haven't had a good overpaid TD's story in a few days, that will get the readers frothing"

Graham · 22-02-2021 12:25PM

copeyhagen wrote: »

why are we closed now then when a lot of Europe has openend most industries back up?!

the Spanish dont say "ok, we wil lreview it in 6 months" and dripfeed bad fear to the papers.

It sounds like you aren't remotely familiar with how the Spanish operate.

To give you an idea of some of the restrictions my family living in Spain have faced over the last year or are currently facing:

no leaving the house other than for essential shopping or to walk pets (no exercise)
curfew
inside dining at 2m spacing.
no inside dining, outside at 2m spacing
no outside dining after 6pm
takeout only
takeout only within the municipality even if the next municipality is 20 feet away
no hospitality at all

To continue to suggest every other EU country is 'doing it better' is just incredibly ill informed.

Klonker · 22-02-2021 12:30PM

Graham wrote: »

It sounds like you aren't remotely familiar with how the Spanish operate.

To give you an idea of some of the restrictions my family living in Spain have faced over the last year or are currently facing:

no leaving the house other than for essential shopping or to walk pets (no exercise)
curfew
inside dining at 2m spacing.
no inside dining, outside at 2m spacing
no outside dining after 6pm
takeout only
takeout only within the municipality even if the next municipality is 20 feet away
no hospitality at all

To continue to suggest every other EU country is 'doing it better' is just incredibly ill informed.

Not much point telling us what restrictions they had. What restrictions have they now and how do they compare to our current restrictions?

copeyhagen · 22-02-2021 12:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Because that wasn't a stock photo. FFS. Get angry at real issues, not invented ones by lazy editorial staff - "What will we run today? We haven't had a good overpaid TD's story in a few days, that will get the readers frothing"

ok, so you think the politicians didnt know that the pay ise was incoming?!! and kept shut?! haha

they could have gotten out ahead of the news if they had a braincell, or a moral backbone.

they will happikly take the rise im sure. we're in this together.

paw patrol · 22-02-2021 12:33PM

Boggles wrote: »

The majority of constructions workers are working.

The rest will be back when it is deemed safe. They are all ready filtering back.

From the the 15th of Feb.

We need to get over the fallacy that construction is closed, it isn't.

Repeating a falsehood over and over again will never make it true.

this just isn't true,
the only construction working are people working for the big firms who weasel out of the restrictions by claiming the work is essential.

The smaller builder or self employed one unless he can get an emergency job is still out of work.

I've 3 mates in construction, 2 of them are on PUP as self employed...the occasional nixer aside.
1 was never off work , he works for a massive firm that got them essential work exception.

thebaz · 22-02-2021 12:34PM

Its been confirmed that the virus hardly transmits outside , and the scare stories from last summer outdoor spreading was all wrong; we have had lockdown for nearly a year, the virus spreads indoors , and already the Autorities are saying they are going to police outdorr gatherings - Eneogh really is Eneogh :-

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda%C3%AD-may-be-redeployed-to-beauty-spots-as-crowds-flock-to-parks-and-beaches-1.4491239?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fgarda%25C3%25AD-may-be-redeployed-to-beauty-spots-as-crowds-flock-to-parks-and-beaches-1.4491239

copeyhagen · 22-02-2021 12:34PM

Graham wrote: »

It sounds like you aren't remotely familiar with how the Spanish operate.

To give you an idea of some of the restrictions my family living in Spain have faced over the last year or are currently facing:

no leaving the house other than for essential shopping or to walk pets (no exercise)
curfew
inside dining at 2m spacing.
no inside dining, outside at 2m spacing
no outside dining after 6pm
takeout only
takeout only within the municipality even if the next municipality is 20 feet away
no hospitality at all

To continue to suggest every other EU country is 'doing it better' is just incredibly ill informed.

and ill flip tat with my family, who live there full time.

no leaving the house other than for essential shopping or to walk pets (no exercise) - that was a month back in April, every household member allowed to elave the house once for exercise, per day.
curfew - no?
inside dining at 2m spacing. - perfect
no inside dining, outside at 2m spacing - again, last June
no outside dining after 6pm - could live with that happily, also, was for a few weeks at a time
takeout only - same timeframe as half the above
takeout only within the municipality even if the next municipality is 20 feet away - this is true, because municipals are governend seperately depending on if its a national lockdown. theyre also ****ING HUGE
no hospitality at all - again, half your points are from the same one month lockdown

they ahve literally closed hospitality for a solid month, then 2 weeks, twice. in a year

Captain_Crash · 22-02-2021 12:34PM

Geuze wrote: »

AFAIK, that article is completely false.

TDs do not control their own pay.

They get the same pay change as any public servant.

All public servants got pay restoration over the last few years, including TDs.

Under the planned pay deal for 2021-2022, all public servants will get a 1% pay rise each year.

What you say is correct, kind of. TD’s can (and many would say should) refuse to vote on a pay rise. Also there is nothing stopping them refusing/deferring a pay rise for themselves while also approving other public sector pay rises. There has even been a bill published to reduce TD’s pay by 25% but oddly enough it doesn't appear to be getting any attention in the Daíl

Klonker · 22-02-2021 12:36PM

Boggles wrote: »

The majority of constructions workers are working.

The rest will be back when it is deemed safe. They are all ready filtering back.

From the the 15th of Feb.

We need to get over the fallacy that construction is closed, it isn't.

Repeating a falsehood over and over again will never make it true.

But non essential construction is currently closed, I could send you a link to the restrictions but I won't because you already know its true. This is fact and to say its a fallacy is an out and out lie.

Is some construction that is deemed not essential going ahead at the moment? Absolutely. But we shouldn't have restrictions in the first place if they are to be expected to not be followed. Either non essential construction should be closed or not and at the moment it should absolutely not be closed.

Boggles · 22-02-2021 12:36PM

paw patrol wrote: »

this just isn't true,
the only construction working are people working for the big firms who weasel out of the restrictions by claiming the work is essential.

Well you'll need to get on to the federation and tell them they are spouting lies so.

Corby Trouser Press · 22-02-2021 12:37PM

Boggles wrote: »

The majority of constructions workers are working.

The rest will be back when it is deemed safe. They are all ready filtering back.

From the the 15th of Feb.

We need to get over the fallacy that construction is closed, it isn't.

Repeating a falsehood over and over again will never make it true.

You do realise there are supports available other then PUP?
The clue is in the name, U stands for Unemployment.

Construction firms are using EWSS to support their staff, just like other industries, rather then making them redundant.

Do you think the boss of ABC Construction Ltd is gonna say "thanks for your 20 years service in the office Mary, here's your last payslip, go away now onto the PUP?"

Oh and PUP claimants for Construction sector still stands at 62,197 claimants.

corcaigh07 · 22-02-2021 12:38PM

Boggles wrote: »

The majority of constructions workers are working.

The rest will be back when it is deemed safe. They are all ready filtering back.

From the the 15th of Feb.

We need to get over the fallacy that construction is closed, it isn't.

Repeating a falsehood over and over again will never make it true.

Falsehood? Come off it, this is from Gov.ie:

Construction is closed, with the following exceptions:

essential health and related projects including those relevant to preventing, limiting, minimising or slowing the spread of COVID-19

social housing projects, including voids, designated as essential sites by Local Authorities based on set criteria

housing adaptation grants where the homeowner is agreeable to adaptions being undertaken in their home

repair, maintenance and construction of critical transport and utility infrastructure

education facilities sites designated as essential by Department of Education

supply and delivery of essential or emergency maintenance and repair services to businesses and places of residence (including electrical, gas, oil, plumbing, glazing and roofing services) on an emergency call-out basis

certain large construction projects in the exporting / FDI sector based on set criteria

in relation to private homes that are practically complete and scheduled for habitation by 31 January 2021, including where snagging, and essential remediation work, such as pyrite works is nearing completion, works should continue to enable homeowners access their homes. Heating, water, broadband and electricity installation should also continue to enable homes be occupied

existing tenancy protections mean that a tenant cannot be evicted from their home during the period of the 5km travel restrictions. To enable a limited functioning of the housing and residential tenancy market during this time it has also been agreed that online viewings will be the default approach to viewing property for rental or sale, with a physical viewing only permissible at the point where a tenancy agreement is being entered into or where a contract for sale has been drawn up. This approach balances the need to avoid social interaction with the need to provide a pathway to tenancy and home ownership for those who need it

Graham · 22-02-2021 12:38PM

Klonker wrote: »

Not much point telling us what restrictions they had. What restrictions have they now and how do they compare to our current restrictions?

Where my family are their current restrictions are very similar to ours.

Essential travel only.
No leaving the municipality.
No visiting in private homes.
No hospitality other than takeout only before 6pm.
Schools recently re-opened.
Restrictions change with little to no notice at all.

Pretending we're particularly hard done to here in Ireland is either ill informed or deliberately misleading.

The 'woe is us' brigade certainly don't help by cherry-picking assorted looser restrictions in some bizarre effort to increase misery levels.

FintanMcluskey · 22-02-2021 12:40PM

Graham wrote: »

Where my family are their current restrictions are very similar to ours.

Essential travel only.
No leaving the municipality.
No visiting in private homes.
No hospitality other than takeout only before 6pm.
Schools recently re-opened.
Restrictions change with little to no notice at all.

Pretending we're particularly hard done to here in Ireland is either ill informed or deliberately misleading.

The 'woe is us' brigade certainly don't help by cherry-picking assorted looser restrictions in some bizarre effort to increase misery levels.

Is construction closed where your family are?

Boggles · 22-02-2021 12:40PM

Klonker wrote: »

But non essential construction is currently closed, I could send you a link to the restrictions but I won't because you already know its true. This is fact and to say its a fallacy is an out and out lie.

Is some construction that is deemed not essential going ahead at the moment? Absolutely. But we shouldn't have restrictions in the first place if they are to be expected to not be followed. Either non essential construction should be closed or not and at the moment it should absolutely not be closed.

To say all construction is closed like has been repeated over and over again on the thread is an out right fallacy.

Something you obviously agree with.

40% of sites "officially" are open. These are the largest sites in the country the employ the most, then have utilities, capital projects, roads, emergency home maintenance, etc.

Roughly 40% of construction workers are claiming PUP, you can also claim PUP and work to a point.

The reality is the majority of people who are working in construction are working.

Because of reality and basic maths.

copeyhagen · 22-02-2021 12:41PM

Graham wrote: »

Where my family are their current restrictions are very similar to ours.

Essential travel only.
No leaving the municipality.
No visiting in private homes.
No hospitality other than takeout only before 6pm.
Schools recently re-opened.
Restrictions change with little to no notice at all.

Pretending we're particularly hard done to here in Ireland is either ill informed or deliberately misleading.

The 'woe is us' brigade certainly don't help by cherry-picking assorted looser restrictions in some bizarre effort to increase misery levels.

as i said, spain is governed differently depending on the area, andalucia has one of the above, no restarants after 6pm, rumoured to be changed to 10pm this week.
oh, the municipal travel is true too, although andalucia is huge with a pop of 8.5 mill, so thats a non argument.

so YES, were fooking hard done by, going by every other Country in Europe for the last fooking year

Graham · 22-02-2021 12:41PM

copeyhagen wrote: »

they ahve literally closed hospitality for a solid month, then 2 weeks, twice. in a year

Awesome

I will get straight onto my family now and inform them copeyhagen says you can reopen the restaurant, bar and terrace and tell all the staff they can come back into work.

Boggles · 22-02-2021 12:41PM

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

Construction firms are using EWSS to support their staff, just like other industries, rather then making them redundant.

Like I explained to you previously you can still trade and work whilst claiming that benefit.

copeyhagen · 22-02-2021 12:44PM

Graham wrote: »

Awesome

I will get straight onto my family now and inform them copeyhagen says you can reopen the restaurant, bar and terrace and tell all the staff they can come back into work.

well considering that andalucia opened last Friday, i think theyre missing the news

Corby Trouser Press · 22-02-2021 12:45PM

Boggles wrote: »

Like I explained to you previously you can still trade and work whilst claiming that benefit.

"If you are self-employed, you can earn up to €960 over 8 weeks and keep your PUP payment."

€960 over 8 weeks ... boom is back baby! :pac:

Oh and your basic maths is very basic indeed.

Subtracting the 60k on the PUP from the vague 200k ppl working in "construction and related industries" making a pronouncement that the majority are working away productively... that's foundation level stuff for the Leaving Cert.

Boggles · 22-02-2021 12:49PM

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

"If you are self-employed, you can earn up to €960 over 8 weeks and keep your PUP payment."

€960 over 8 weeks ... boom is back baby! :pac:

Oh and your basic maths is very basic indeed.

Subtracting the 60k on the PUP from the vague 200k ppl working in "construction and related industries" making a pronouncement that the majority are working away productively... that's foundation level stuff for the Leaving Cert.

I'd argue it's middle primary, but you are still struggling with it.

Anyway you are the one with the direct line to cabinet, why not asked them for the figures?

Again though reality. A company can claim EWSS and still be trading / working.

Corby Trouser Press · 22-02-2021 12:57PM

Boggles wrote: »

I'd argue it's middle primary, but you are still struggling with it.

Anyway you are the one with the direct line to cabinet, why not asked them for the figures?

Again though reality. A company can claim EWSS and still be trading / working.

You are struggling with the concept that you are either on the PUP or working away productively full time so we will leave it there.

Klonker · 22-02-2021 12:58PM

Boggles wrote: »

To say all construction is closed like has been repeated over and over again on the thread is an out right fallacy.

Something you obviously agree with.

40% of sites "officially" are open. These are the largest sites in the country the employ the most, then have utilities, capital projects, roads, emergency home maintenance, etc.

Roughly 40% of construction workers are claiming PUP, you can also claim PUP and work to a point.

The reality is the majority of people who are working in construction are working.

Because of reality and basic maths.

Yes to say construction is closed is a lie and to say construction is open is also a lie. What most are saying here is no construction should be closed. We are the country in Europe to do so and plan to keep it that way into April and we are doing this while simultaneously having a severe housing shortage.

Graham · 22-02-2021 12:58PM

copeyhagen wrote: »

well considering that andalucia opened last Friday, i think theyre missing the news

It's almost as if there are varying levels of restrictions across the EU for the varying infection levels.

Boggles · 22-02-2021 12:59PM

Klonker wrote: »

Yes to say construction is closed is a lie and to say construction is open is also a lie.

No, one is an outright falsehood, the other no one said it.

The majority of construction workers are working.

That is a fact.

But I would agree the return of the rest should be expedited as soon as it is deemed safe.

TomTomTim · 22-02-2021 01:11PM

Boggles is somewhat right for a change. I'm living in a new estate that is still being built. The amount of builders has been reduced massively, but they are still working away.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings